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You got a good deal. Yes, ol' Jim had a long and storied history. I went to college in Stevens Point and after bought a lot of stuff at Laabs and Jerry's Music in Wausau. I lived in Minocqua, but grew up in Merrill, where I live now.
After years of struggling with a Bassman and it's too low headroom, the SG was the first bass amp that did the job. It was quickly replaced though, first with a big Carvin rig, and soon after with an SVT.
I thought(?)that you could small converters that plugged into the wall socket.When shipping via LTL container (I know you know what that stands for) by sea, volume is what you pay for, not weightll (I paid per cubic foot and it wasn't cheap). And power converters take space and cost money. I went from an 1800 sq ft townhouse to my current 550 sq ft apartment (big by French standards!). I'm happy to dedicate floor space to my basses, but I've got no space for converters. My MIDI keyboard controller is under my desk as it is. I'd love to have it out next to my desk like I did in the States, but that's life. Not even close to enough of a reason to get me to move back State-side.
Also on the plus side, I replaced the 40 with a Studio 40 and I replaced the 200 with an Italian-made GR Bass AT Cube 500 combo, which I LOVE! It weighs less than 19 lbs and is CLEAN. If I want some tone other than clean, I can use the Studio 40 preamp and modeler and plug its FX Send into the FX Return on the AT Cube like you'd chain 100's. It can do a pretty convincing Ampeg fridge.
Today’s office. Kenny loves the feel of that Rumble 800 under his feet!
>falls off due to the awesome vibration, lands on head, and spectacularly exsanguinates on the stage<
“OMG! YOU KILLED KENNY!! YOU BASTARD!”
“OMG! YOU KILLED KENNY!! YOU BASTARD!”
We (60s/70s rock and country) played there once. We weren't what they wanted, plus it was about 45 degrees that night. Minimal crowd; not our fault.
D
Maybe today, but I haven't used one in so long that I can only remember the heavy toolbox-sized ones with a big ol' transformer. With the amount of current an amp could draw, I'm not sure that a little socket converter would work more than once...for one second.
I have yet to see a big crowd there and we play once a month there. Sunday afternoon gigs.
Ours was a night gig. Windy and cold. If it wasn't for friends and family, I think we had 3 people in "the crowd". We do best at VFWs, Legions, Elks, etc.
I wish to throw out an easy question to satisfy my curiosity. I have a G-DEC 30 amp for my guitars and a Rumble 100 for my basses.
I heard tell of musicians using 50 or 100 watt tube amps for great power at gigs back in the day. In the Rumble space we’re throwing around #’s like 500 and 800 watts. I get the feeling that 100 watts of tube amp is much more powerful than 100 watts of today’s solid state amps. Is that true? Please explain.
I heard tell of musicians using 50 or 100 watt tube amps for great power at gigs back in the day. In the Rumble space we’re throwing around #’s like 500 and 800 watts. I get the feeling that 100 watts of tube amp is much more powerful than 100 watts of today’s solid state amps. Is that true? Please explain.
I'll throw out my take, and everyone can bash on it. 
TLDR: Yeah, tubes are louder.
Power rating is based on non/low distorted sound. I think tube amps are rated at 3% THD. Tubes distort easily, so doesn't take much power to start getting technically distorted. Until that distortion is large, it still sounds clean, and even after that, it still usually sounds good. But the rating is way down where it wasn't distorting.
Solid state amps completely lose it when they distort. It's only special circuits that are designed to sound good "distorted" that actually should be distorted--they aren't really hitting amp distortion--they're doing a thing to sound good. Smoke and mirrors, diode clipping, etc. So the REAL amp should never get to the point of distorting--sounds bad, not good for it. And therefore the power is bumped up to give headroom to the amp.
Case in point--a 22W Deluxe Reverb gets plenty loud. The tone master copy of it has a 100W SS amp pretending to be that 22W tube amp. If you drive the TM version into breakup, the power amp is not distorting--it's cleanly playing a signal that sounds like distortion the DSP circuit created.
Then you have to look at the frequencies covered. A guitar amp takes much less power to be a certain loudness than a low frequency bass amp. Gotta compare apples to apples. I don't know, but I bet the 50W ACB bass tube amp gets louder than the Rumble 100.
Let the corrections commence!
TLDR: Yeah, tubes are louder.
Power rating is based on non/low distorted sound. I think tube amps are rated at 3% THD. Tubes distort easily, so doesn't take much power to start getting technically distorted. Until that distortion is large, it still sounds clean, and even after that, it still usually sounds good. But the rating is way down where it wasn't distorting.
Solid state amps completely lose it when they distort. It's only special circuits that are designed to sound good "distorted" that actually should be distorted--they aren't really hitting amp distortion--they're doing a thing to sound good. Smoke and mirrors, diode clipping, etc. So the REAL amp should never get to the point of distorting--sounds bad, not good for it. And therefore the power is bumped up to give headroom to the amp.
Case in point--a 22W Deluxe Reverb gets plenty loud. The tone master copy of it has a 100W SS amp pretending to be that 22W tube amp. If you drive the TM version into breakup, the power amp is not distorting--it's cleanly playing a signal that sounds like distortion the DSP circuit created.
Then you have to look at the frequencies covered. A guitar amp takes much less power to be a certain loudness than a low frequency bass amp. Gotta compare apples to apples. I don't know, but I bet the 50W ACB bass tube amp gets louder than the Rumble 100.
Let the corrections commence!
Hello chaps - me again I'm afraid!
Considering you guys / this thread to be the "blue team", I've been getting people to "red team" my choice of a Rumble 500 in a thread elsewhere. So far, as expected, and I'm largely undeterred.
A couple of comments came up there that I'd like to ask the folk in the Rumble club about though:
The thing that's most interesting me about these is the low-power mode. Reading elsewhere that:
I've come full-circle now. Starting with a hat-tip to G-Dog who actually remembered one of my really old posts on here about running amps at low power - which I appreciated but didn't publically recognize before - I now wonder whether I'm about to end up with an amp I can't use in the house.
So, in typical bassist fashion, to solve the problem, I think I may need a bigger amp(!).
Fender lists the "low power" mode of the Rumble 800 as being ¼ of the full power, which if the overall amp is 400W, I make 100W, which is nicely equivalent to the Rumble 100 I was considering earlier.
So:
Go "blue team"!
Considering you guys / this thread to be the "blue team", I've been getting people to "red team" my choice of a Rumble 500 in a thread elsewhere. So far, as expected, and I'm largely undeterred.
A couple of comments came up there that I'd like to ask the folk in the Rumble club about though:
Actually kinda wish I'd gotten the 800 but that's just because I'm power mad! Bwahahahah!
The thing that's most interesting me about these is the low-power mode. Reading elsewhere that:
I've come full-circle now. Starting with a hat-tip to G-Dog who actually remembered one of my really old posts on here about running amps at low power - which I appreciated but didn't publically recognize before - I now wonder whether I'm about to end up with an amp I can't use in the house.
So, in typical bassist fashion, to solve the problem, I think I may need a bigger amp(!).
Fender lists the "low power" mode of the Rumble 800 as being ¼ of the full power, which if the overall amp is 400W, I make 100W, which is nicely equivalent to the Rumble 100 I was considering earlier.
So:
- Could someone confirm that the low power switch on the 800 is an attenuator rather than a limiter? Meaning, if I engage the switch, I've still got a volume control that works all the way up, but the max volume is like a 100W amp rather than a 400W amp? As opposed, say, to the volume increasing as you turn it up to "2½" and then getting no louder between there and "10"?
- Could anyone give me a two-sentence explanation of the value / usage of the pre-/post-DI? I assume this is used, for example, to take a line out of the amp into a stage box / mixer that's going to provide a signal for FoH or any foldbacks, but since I've never done that, a quick explanation would be appreciated.
Go "blue team"!
Hello chaps - me again I'm afraid!
Considering you guys / this thread to be the "blue team", I've been getting people to "red team" my choice of a Rumble 500 in a thread elsewhere. So far, as expected, and I'm largely undeterred.
A couple of comments came up there that I'd like to ask the folk in the Rumble club about though:
The thing that's most interesting me about these is the low-power mode. Reading elsewhere that:
I've come full-circle now. Starting with a hat-tip to G-Dog who actually remembered one of my really old posts on here about running amps at low power - which I appreciated but didn't publically recognize before - I now wonder whether I'm about to end up with an amp I can't use in the house.
So, in typical bassist fashion, to solve the problem, I think I may need a bigger amp(!).
Fender lists the "low power" mode of the Rumble 800 as being ¼ of the full power, which if the overall amp is 400W, I make 100W, which is nicely equivalent to the Rumble 100 I was considering earlier.
So:
Just trying to decide whether to move up, down, or stay where I am.
- Could someone confirm that the low power switch on the 800 is an attenuator rather than a limiter? Meaning, if I engage the switch, I've still got a volume control that works all the way up, but the max volume is like a 100W amp rather than a 400W amp? As opposed, say, to the volume increasing as you turn it up to "2½" and then getting no louder between there and "10"?
- Could anyone give me a two-sentence explanation of the value / usage of the pre-/post-DI? I assume this is used, for example, to take a line out of the amp into a stage box / mixer that's going to provide a signal for FoH or any foldbacks, but since I've never done that, a quick explanation would be appreciated.
Go "blue team"!
I don't recall the low power post you made, but my Rumble 100 does fine at low volume as well as rattle the walls of my practice room volume. I think there's a much bigger difference in the tonality of a large tube amp played at high and low volumes than most SS amps.
The Rumble low power switch is an attenuator of sorts- it shunts some of the preamp signal to ground just before it hits the power amp.
Wow! neuty, you sure did stir up a lot of great discussion in your "red team" thread! That is certainly quite the due diligence.
... ... A couple of comments came up there that I'd like to ask the folk in the Rumble club about though:
mcrawfordmusic said: ↑
The Fender Rumble 500 combo is a great gigging amp, but I would be looking at the Rumble 800. It's priced only a little higher but has a pre/post DI, low-power mode and weighs 29lbs verse the 500's 36.5lbs.
bill81255 said: ↑
Actually kinda wish I'd gotten the 800 but that's just because I'm power mad! Bwahahahah!
The thing that's most interesting me about these is the low-power mode. Reading elsewhere that:
furym said: ↑
I had a Rumble 500 for just in case I needed to use it out but I play silent stages only. At home it was too much for the rest of the family.
I've come full-circle now. Starting with a hat-tip to G-Dog who actually remembered one of my really old posts on here about running amps at low power - which I appreciated but didn't publically recognize before - I now wonder whether I'm about to end up with an amp I can't use in the house.
So, in typical bassist fashion, to solve the problem, I think I may need a bigger amp(!). ... ... ...
Yes, there's enough choices, and information, and opinions, available to really make the head spin. And, while I've never found my R500c to be too much for home practice, I must admit to a modicum, actually a lot, of interest in the new R800c 1/4 Output Switch, myself!! 
Yes, you are correct, sir. What a coincidence, eh? 1/4 of 400w is 100w. Nice.
Hmmm! Interesting question. I hadn't thought of that before. Lemme see, ... ...
My first impulse is to check the R800c block diagram, from the manual. It shows the 1/4 Power Switch a good bit downstream of the Master control, but directly upstream of the Impedance Switch and the power amp. That indicates, to me at least (though I am no expert), that the Master would still have full range control over the signal going to that Switch & power amp. (Unfortunately, in this case, the manual doesn't elaborate on the specific circuit type of the switch.)
7ender the R800c-specific thread does consistently refer to the 1/4 Output Switch as "Attenuation", for whatever that's worth. I think it could be an electronic page taken from their your "red team" thread that have multiple output power levels, which most certainly could not have such "limited" behavior and remain marketable.
I don't find any reference to the Master behaving like it's "limited", as you describe, in ↑. I think it more than likely someone would holler "bloody murder" there if they had found such "limited" behavior.
My first impulse is to check the R800c block diagram, from the manual. It shows the 1/4 Power Switch a good bit downstream of the Master control, but directly upstream of the Impedance Switch and the power amp. That indicates, to me at least (though I am no expert), that the Master would still have full range control over the signal going to that Switch & power amp. (Unfortunately, in this case, the manual doesn't elaborate on the specific circuit type of the switch.)
The R800c block diagram also shows the Master being downstream of the FX Return jack. So, if you plug your Helix in there, instead of the Input, the Master will still control the volume of the amp. (Note: That is not the case with the R500c, nor the lesser Rumbles, which all have the Master upstream of the FX Return jack.)
The
I don't find any reference to the Master behaving like it's "limited", as you describe, in ↑. I think it more than likely someone would holler "bloody murder" there if they had found such "limited" behavior.
- Yes, some PA soundpersons prefer to receive a pre-EQ bass signal so they can EQ and mix it with the other instruments & vocals to their own taste, but I prefer to send them my carefully crafted post-EQ bass signal, as does every other instrument!
- Pre-EQ signals are most useful in recording, where the final tone can be crafted while mixing with the other instruments, or even a pre- (using a DI box) and a post-EQ signal (from the amp) may be recorded for blending during the mix.
How's that for two run-on sentences worth?
... ... Just trying to decide whether to move up, down, or stay where I am.
Go "blue team"!
I hope this helps. 
"I'll have a blue, blue, blue Christmas ... ... "
.
"I'll have a blue, blue, blue Christmas ... ... ".
Last edited:
- Yes, some PA soundpersons prefer to receive a pre-EQ bass signal so they can EQ and mix it with the other instruments & vocals to their own taste, but I prefer to send them my carefully crafted post-EQ bass signal, as does every other instrument!
- Pre-EQ signals are most useful in recording, where the final tone can be crafted while mixing with the other instruments, or even a pre- (using a DI box) and a post-EQ signal (from the amp) may be recorded for blending during the mix.
Makes sense to me
. At least you are giving the sound person what you like, before he/she has a chance to mess it up. If you are the one doing the recording mix, it's all up to you anyway .
Which is why on the last gigs we had sound men(2015), I had them take a line out offa my amp. At least my amp put out what I wanted. IDK what they did to it in the mix.Makes sense to me
I hope this helps.
@G-Dog - thank you again (and particularly) for all your contributions to my research. Yes, I think I probably stirred up a bit of a (well-intentioned) hornet's nest on the other thread, but I figure it's better to ask the questions before stumping up the cash. Likewise, here, where really each part of your reply deserves a separate acknowledgement and thanks but I'll try to keep my response short to avoid irritating the rest of the TB massif.
So, in short:
- I appreciate the pre-/post-DI explanations. Excellent sentences too
- It seems like the £50-70 difference between 500 and 800 might be worth trying to bridge, given the "100W-amp-in-a-400W-amp-box" feature. It's just a question of timing and money, the one affecting the other, but although I'm excited, I'm not in so much of a hurry that I'm going to rush an investment-type purchase like this.
- The "red team" may have raised valid points which I acknowledge, but I still feel Rumble is the way to go. Once I'm creating patches for one amp I'm using all the time, I doubt I'll have too much trouble getting to where I want to be, tonally-speaking.
Gain and volume controls are variable attenuators; this is a fixed value attenuator. Tone controls are attenuators, but for any given pot/switch value, the attenuation varies over frequency. Etc.
I'm an expert on the subject, so now you are one explanation closer to being an expert!
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