Fender Rumble Club

[GaDawg78644]

That's a great set up to start with.

Your background in piano should help you quite a bit.

While I'm not a teacher of anything musical, a book that looks like it might be of help is The Complete Electric Bass Player by Chuck Rainey, Book 1: The Method. It does a good job explaining the bass on keys, so you could probably apply this in reverse.

I'm using this book to learn along with Bass Buzz's Beginner to Badass online course. These are two different styles and approaches to learning bass, but parallel each other quite well.

(My background is I've been around musicians and helped technically with them in studio and on stage for years. I also spent most of my life working on electronic and mechanical things of many types. I tried unsuccessfully to learn guitar for nine plus years. About three years ago, I decided to give bass a serious try and it stuck. I've been doing far better on bass than I ever did on guitar.)

Thanks for the information

 

[GaDawg78644]

Nice bass, and of course, nice amp! Those Squiers with the color-matched headstocks look awesome... someone at Fender needs to make that happen more often.

I agree that it looks great! I’m excited to have it and learn on it.

 

[GonePlaid]

That's a great set up to start with.

Your background in piano should help you quite a bit.

While I'm not a teacher of anything musical, a book that looks like it might be of help is The Complete Electric Bass Player by Chuck Rainey, Book 1: The Method. It does a good job explaining the bass on keys, so you could probably apply this in reverse.

I'm using this book to learn along with Bass Buzz's Beginner to Badass online course. These are two different styles and approaches to learning bass, but parallel each other quite well.

(My background is I've been around musicians and helped technically with them in studio and on stage for years. I also spent most of my life working on electronic and mechanical things of many types. I tried unsuccessfully to learn guitar for nine plus years. About three years ago, I decided to give bass a serious try and it stuck. I've been doing far better on bass than I ever did on guitar.)

As an ex-saxist, my guitar 'expertise' can be described as "I've got A and E and I'm workin' on D".

 

[KenB]

I just had a disappointing trial of "daisy chaining" my two Rumbles, and I need some advice...

I think I remember past references on this forum regarding stacking and connecting a Rumble 100 and 200 together, but it didn't work so well when I tried it.

I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. Sounds great for the gigs I've played (classic rock and country in small venues and on outdoor patios), although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. The amp sounded OK, but you could HEAR that Delta-Comp working!

A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, to use the few times a year I have to schlep it to practice sessions (in a guy's basement)...

Anyway, yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together.
Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference?
240 total watts!

I wasn't sure whether to use the Rumble 200 as the master and the Rumble 100 as the slave, or vice versa, so I did some tests to check out how the Rumbles' preamp sections compare.

I used a sine wave generator and my JMJ Mustang as input signals, and observed the output levels and waveforms on an oscilloscope.
I also input pink noise, and compared the frequency response using my old ADC Sound-Shaper SA-1 spectrum analyzer.

It turns out that the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical in operation. There is no difference in output or response when the controls are set the same on both units. It doesn't matter if you look at the SEND outputs or the headphone outputs, all levels and frequency response are identical.

So, I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable.

The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB!

The difference is in the gain of the two power amp sections.
The 200 is always 6dB louder than the 100, even if both amps are driven by identical signals directly into their Effects RETURN jacks.

I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone!

SO, has anyone else tried daisy-chaining a Rumble 200 (or 500) and a Rumble 100 together?

Any suggestions as to how to make the two amps more equal in level, to put the Rumble 100's 100 watts to better use?

 

[stingray69]

I just had a disappointing trial of "daisy chaining" my two Rumbles, and I need some advice...

I think I remember past references on this forum regarding stacking and connecting a Rumble 100 and 200 together, but it didn't work so well when I tried it.

I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. Sounds great for the gigs I've played (classic rock and country in small venues and on outdoor patios), although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. The amp sounded OK, but you could HEAR that Delta-Comp working!

A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, to use the few times a year I have to schlep it to practice sessions (in a guy's basement)...

Anyway, yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together.
Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference?
240 total watts!

I wasn't sure whether to use the Rumble 200 as the master and the Rumble 100 as the slave, or vice versa, so I did some tests to check out how the Rumbles' preamp sections compare.

I used a sine wave generator and my JMJ Mustang as input signals, and observed the output levels and waveforms on an oscilloscope.
I also input pink noise, and compared the frequency response using my old ADC Sound-Shaper SA-1 spectrum analyzer.

It turns out that the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical in operation. There is no difference in output or response when the controls are set the same on both units. It doesn't matter if you look at the SEND outputs or the headphone outputs, all levels and frequency response are identical.

So, I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable.

The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB!

The difference is in the gain of the two power amp sections.
The 200 is always 6dB louder than the 100, even if both amps are driven by identical signals directly into their Effects RETURN jacks.

I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone!

SO, has anyone else tried daisy-chaining a Rumble 200 (or 500) and a Rumble 100 together?

Any suggestions as to how to make the two amps more equal in level, to put the Rumble 100's 100 watts to better use?

Although I haven't done daisy-chaining in a LONG time, I think you may be able to accomplish more volume out of the 100 by coming out of the 200's Effect Send into the 1/4" normal Input jack on the 100. This way you would still be able to retain control of the level of the 100 just as you would with a bass straight into the input jack.

CONS:

You would have to manually volume-balance the 100 to match the 200 any time you made a volume change to the 200. On a gig, I doubt this would happen more than once or twice throughout the night in practicality.


The 100 would always be running a little harder to keep up with the 200. It may not be able to deliver the goods, depending on the volume level your band likes to play.


There may be more cons that I'm not thinking of at the moment - or perhaps I'm way off in theory, perhaps others can weigh in with their thoughts.



PROS:

Your EQ would work properly on the 100 connecting it up this way. This might help you fine-tweak for differences between the speakers (if any are present).

You are now essentially bi-amping in a sense (albeit without a crossover). This would allow you to put an OD pedal before the input of the 100 (if that sort of thing is applicable to you) and you could have clean coming from the 200 and some dirt coming from the 100 on some songs that might benefit from it. This would help retain your low end while using OD/Distortion.

 

[SharpCat]

I just had a disappointing trial of "daisy chaining" my two Rumbles, and I need some advice...

I think I remember past references on this forum regarding stacking and connecting a Rumble 100 and 200 together, but it didn't work so well when I tried it.

I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. Sounds great for the gigs I've played (classic rock and country in small venues and on outdoor patios), although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. The amp sounded OK, but you could HEAR that Delta-Comp working!

A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, to use the few times a year I have to schlep it to practice sessions (in a guy's basement)...

Anyway, yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together.
Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference?
240 total watts!

I wasn't sure whether to use the Rumble 200 as the master and the Rumble 100 as the slave, or vice versa, so I did some tests to check out how the Rumbles' preamp sections compare.

I used a sine wave generator and my JMJ Mustang as input signals, and observed the output levels and waveforms on an oscilloscope.
I also input pink noise, and compared the frequency response using my old ADC Sound-Shaper SA-1 spectrum analyzer.

It turns out that the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical in operation. There is no difference in output or response when the controls are set the same on both units. It doesn't matter if you look at the SEND outputs or the headphone outputs, all levels and frequency response are identical.

So, I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable.

The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB!

The difference is in the gain of the two power amp sections.
The 200 is always 6dB louder than the 100, even if both amps are driven by identical signals directly into their Effects RETURN jacks.

I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone!

SO, has anyone else tried daisy-chaining a Rumble 200 (or 500) and a Rumble 100 together?

Any suggestions as to how to make the two amps more equal in level, to put the Rumble 100's 100 watts to better use?

I have a Walrus Canvas reamp pedal, it takes both 1/4 and XLR input, outputs instrument level 1/4, and it has a volume knob. You COULD use such a thing to lower the 200 to match the 100. But really, if the 200 is so much louder, the (lowered 200 + full 100) isn't going to actually get louder than just turning up the 200 alone. It's a waste of time and money--just go with the 200. OTOH, yes, full 200 is louder than full 100, but full (100+200) is going to be at least somewhat louder than just full 200.

My advice I've given several times here, so sorry if you've seen it before--sell both and get an 800c. Loud enough for most anything, if needed can double the power with a cab added, and has a 1/4 power switch to pretend to be a 100 at home.

 

[G-Dog]

... ... ... I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. ... ... although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. ... ... A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, ... ... yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together. Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference? 240 total watts! ... ... the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical ... ... I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable. ... ...

Why use a TRS (stereo) cable? The signal is mono. A TS cable is sufficient, if not better.

​

... ... ... The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB! ... ... I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone! ... ...

It's my understanding that, in chained Rumble combos, the secondary power amp runs flat out full power and it's volume is only controlled by the Master-controlled signal level from the primary amp's FX Send. For that matter, that same signal level also goes to the primary amp's power amp (also running flat out full?). So, of course the 140w 15" combo is always going to be louder than the 100w 12" combo! But together they should certainly give a significant volume, and tone, boost over either alone, especially such near-equal combos. Heck! Some Rumblers here chain their 40 to a 200, or even a 500!, and comment on the improvements they hear!

Why would you expect anything different from that configuration, unless you really want different tones from each amp? As Stingray said above, in that case, run the FX Send of one to the Input of the other, there's no risk of danger, just be sure to reduce the Gain and some EQ on the Input amp in pursuit of your desired tone.
.​

 

[J-Bassomatic]

As an ex-saxist, my guitar 'expertise' can be described as "I've got A and E and I'm workin' on D".

'F' is right out!

 

[Drop1]

I just had a disappointing trial of "daisy chaining" my two Rumbles, and I need some advice...

I think I remember past references on this forum regarding stacking and connecting a Rumble 100 and 200 together, but it didn't work so well when I tried it.

I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. Sounds great for the gigs I've played (classic rock and country in small venues and on outdoor patios), although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. The amp sounded OK, but you could HEAR that Delta-Comp working!

A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, to use the few times a year I have to schlep it to practice sessions (in a guy's basement)...

Anyway, yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together.
Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference?
240 total watts!

I wasn't sure whether to use the Rumble 200 as the master and the Rumble 100 as the slave, or vice versa, so I did some tests to check out how the Rumbles' preamp sections compare.

I used a sine wave generator and my JMJ Mustang as input signals, and observed the output levels and waveforms on an oscilloscope.
I also input pink noise, and compared the frequency response using my old ADC Sound-Shaper SA-1 spectrum analyzer.

It turns out that the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical in operation. There is no difference in output or response when the controls are set the same on both units. It doesn't matter if you look at the SEND outputs or the headphone outputs, all levels and frequency response are identical.

So, I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable.

The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB!

The difference is in the gain of the two power amp sections.
The 200 is always 6dB louder than the 100, even if both amps are driven by identical signals directly into their Effects RETURN jacks.

I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone!

SO, has anyone else tried daisy-chaining a Rumble 200 (or 500) and a Rumble 100 together?

Any suggestions as to how to make the two amps more equal in level, to put the Rumble 100's 100 watts to better use?

Using the 2 together is gonna yield marginal results at best. The best you can hope for is maybe about a 3db gain with both at full volume. That's not accounting for any negative driver interactions. If your are reducing the 200 down to the 100s level, you are very likely actually losing overall output.
You lose quite a bit of power turning down from near full volume. Half the wattage for every 3 db you turn down. That's a lot. If the 200 is 6 db louder than the 100 and you turn down the 200 6 db to match the 100, you cut the 200s power in half, twice. The 200 would be running on roughly a 1/4er of its available power. At that point, what's the point?
2 200s would be a much better option for this. Then you may see something approaching a 6db gain without having to fight cab/amp imbalances.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Thanks!

I dabbled with guitar for a few years, but never got proficient at it. I took years of piano lessons as a child, but can't play anything now, but some of the "theory" part that has stuck.
Bass is "making sense" to me and the fretboard seems easy. I just have to get down the other portions. A friend that plays bass in my church worship team is guiding me on this journey. Thankful to have him.

Jes down the road a piece from here.

 

[GaDawg78644]

Jes down the road a piece from here.

Yep, looks like it! Nice to meet you

 

[G-Dog]

... ... ... A friend that plays bass in my church worship team is guiding me on this journey. Thankful to have him.

Hey, GaDawg, you got the G-Dog here! ... ... So, yer from Lockhart, Texas, are ya, pod-nuh? Well, then, where's yer favorite bar-b-que place, eh? ... ...

Jes down the road a piece from here.

Well, then, Miley, where's yer favorite bar-b-que place?
.

 

[GaDawg78644]

Well, then, Miley, where's yer favorite bar-b-que place?
.

Hmmm, that's a tough problem to have here in Lockhart, since it is the BBQ Capital of Texas....
I like them all, but we usually go to Chisholm Trail because of their side selections and prices.

You ever get down this way? What's yours?

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Well, then, Miley, where's yer favorite bar-b-que place?
.

My very favorite (Johnny T's) closed down (great bbq but the owner wasn't the best businessman). My next favorite (Ruby's (NOT Rudy's)), closed because the owners decided to retire.
Terry Black's[1] just south of the river in Austin is probably my current favorite. Pok-e-Jo's is next, and they have one in Round Rock, so we eat BBQ there the most.
There are others that may be better but I refuse to get up at 4AM and wait in line for hours for it.

[1] Part of the Black family so well known from Lockhart)

 

[GaDawg78644]

My very favorite (Johnny T's) closed down (great bbq but the owner wasn't the best businessman). My next favorite (Ruby's (NOT Rudy's)), closed because the owners decided to retire.
Terry Black's[1] just south of the river in Austin is probably my current favorite. Pok-e-Jo's is next, and they have one in Round Rock, so we eat BBQ there the most.
There are others that may be better but I refuse to get up at 4AM and wait in line for hours for it.

[1] Part of the Black family so well known from Lockhart)

I've eat at Terry Blacks in Lockhart, but not the other locations.
All of it is awesome.
Yeah, there are a couple of places in Lockhart where they wait in line for hours.. I just can't see that with all the awesome choices, literally, only a few steps away.

 

[G-Dog]

Hmmm, that's a tough problem to have here in Lockhart, since it is the BBQ Capital of Texas....
I like them all, but we usually go to Chisholm Trail because of their side selections and prices.

You ever get down this way? What's yours?

It's been at least 20 years since my sister-in-law moved from Lockhart. IIRC, we most often went, during off peak hours, to Kreuz Market. But we did occasionally sample Black's, as well.
.

 

[KenB]

Why use a TRS (stereo) cable? The signal is mono. A TS cable is sufficient, if not better.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachments/trsvsts-gif.5490610/​

The Rumbles are designed to allow use of a TRS or a TS cable.
The SEND and RETURN jacks are TRS type, wired to accept either type:

I tried both types, and saw/heard no difference.
The TRS cable I was using is higher quality and shorter, so I stuck with it.

 

[GonePlaid]

I daisy chained my 100>my 200c, once at home; once on a gig, just to see how it would do. Too much for the room(one of the two largest we play). Had to turn down and fairly quickly disconnected the 200c and finished the night on just the 100. The times I've played through 2x100's, it was somewhat louder-didn't go crazy-but definitely fuller, which is what I wanted to begin with.

 

[trseal]

I just had a disappointing trial of "daisy chaining" my two Rumbles, and I need some advice...

I think I remember past references on this forum regarding stacking and connecting a Rumble 100 and 200 together, but it didn't work so well when I tried it.

I've had a Rumble 200 for four years, and love it. Sounds great for the gigs I've played (classic rock and country in small venues and on outdoor patios), although at the last patio gig I would have liked just a BIT more output. The amp sounded OK, but you could HEAR that Delta-Comp working!

A few month ago I bought a Rumble 100, to use the few times a year I have to schlep it to practice sessions (in a guy's basement)...

Anyway, yesterday I decided to see how it would work if I chained the two amps together.
Would it goose the 200's output enough to make a difference?
240 total watts!

I wasn't sure whether to use the Rumble 200 as the master and the Rumble 100 as the slave, or vice versa, so I did some tests to check out how the Rumbles' preamp sections compare.

I used a sine wave generator and my JMJ Mustang as input signals, and observed the output levels and waveforms on an oscilloscope.
I also input pink noise, and compared the frequency response using my old ADC Sound-Shaper SA-1 spectrum analyzer.

It turns out that the preamp sections of both Rumbles are identical in operation. There is no difference in output or response when the controls are set the same on both units. It doesn't matter if you look at the SEND outputs or the headphone outputs, all levels and frequency response are identical.

So, I went ahead with daisy-chaining the amps, using the Effects SEND and RETURN jacks, and using a 1/4" TRS cable.

The amps worked together as expected, in that both power amp sections are controlled by the Master amp's preamp settings, with none of the Slave's controls having any effect.

BUT...
The sound output of the two Rumbles is NOT equal. The output of the 200 is NOTICEABLY louder than the 100, no matter which amp is used as the Master.

The difference in output (estimated using a sound level meter) is about 6dB!

The difference is in the gain of the two power amp sections.
The 200 is always 6dB louder than the 100, even if both amps are driven by identical signals directly into their Effects RETURN jacks.

I doubt combining the two amps would be noticeably louder at a gig than the 200 alone!

SO, has anyone else tried daisy-chaining a Rumble 200 (or 500) and a Rumble 100 together?

Any suggestions as to how to make the two amps more equal in level, to put the Rumble 100's 100 watts to better use?

Using the 2 together is gonna yield marginal results at best. The best you can hope for is maybe about a 3db gain with both at full volume. That's not accounting for any negative driver interactions. If your are reducing the 200 down to the 100s level, you are very likely actually losing overall output.
You lose quite a bit of power turning down from near full volume. Half the wattage for every 3 db you turn down. That's a lot. If the 200 is 6 db louder than the 100 and you turn down the 200 6 db to match the 100, you cut the 200s power in half, twice. The 200 would be running on roughly a 1/4er of its available power. At that point, what's the point?
2 200s would be a much better option for this. Then you may see something approaching a 6db gain without having to fight cab/amp imbalances.

These points seem to dramatically answer my question I posed not too long ago about the efficacy of connecting 2 mismatched Rumbles (IIRC, a 40 and maybe a 100 or 200, I don't quite recall...). What both of these comments address is specifically what I was asking! Two mismatched, eg. a 40 and a 100 is NOT sending a combined 140W to 2 drivers. It's sending 100W to 1 and 40W to another (of course, assuming max output). So the question pertained to exactly how effective is the maxed-out 40W 10" driver actually contributing to the maxed-out 100W 12" driver. I think, if I read these right, not much! Thanks!!

Tim

 

[SharpCat]

These points seem to dramatically answer my question I posed not too long ago about the efficacy of connecting 2 mismatched Rumbles (IIRC, a 40 and maybe a 100 or 200, I don't quite recall...). What both of these comments address is specifically what I was asking! Two mismatched, eg. a 40 and a 100 is NOT sending a combined 140W to 2 drivers. It's sending 100W to 1 and 40W to another (of course, assuming max output). So the question pertained to exactly how effective is the maxed-out 40W 10" driver actually contributing to the maxed-out 100W 12" driver. I think, if I read these right, not much! Thanks!!

Tim

The other issue is that the 40 doesn't have an FX loop.