Fender Rumble Club

[G-Dog]

Quite valid explanations, Goner. But, but,... but, ... ... headroom! 40% more power!

And there's someone here likes to chain his Rumble 40 to his Rumble 800! I don't unnerstand it myself, but "twee cheese zone."
.

I actually did this last week and will again tonite. Not for my benefit (directly) however. The venue we're playing has a recessed "hole" where the drummer and all his stuff goes and there isn't room for the amps where he can hear them--they have to sit out in front of the drummer. So, as an experiment--thanks to the many discussions here about doing so--I ran my R40 back to sit right next to the drummer as his dedicated bass monitor. R800 FX SEND to the R40 main INPUT. Worked GREAT! So... "one less thang..."

Tim

These points seem to dramatically answer my question I posed not too long ago about the efficacy of connecting 2 mismatched Rumbles (IIRC, a 40 and maybe a 100 or 200, I don't quite recall...). What both of these comments address is specifically what I was asking! Two mismatched, eg. a 40 and a 100 is NOT sending a combined 140W to 2 drivers. It's sending 100W to 1 and 40W to another (of course, assuming max output). So the question pertained to exactly how effective is the maxed-out 40W 10" driver actually contributing to the maxed-out 100W 12" driver. I think, if I read these right, not much! Thanks!!

Tim

I dunno if I found your post you referenced, but this seemed to touch the topic?
.

 

[trseal]

Is there any benefit to connecting to the R100's FX Return from the R40's Line out using an XLR to ¼" cable? Would that give you 140 total watts?

I guess this is more of a technical question than observation but my question to this is, would there actually be a functional benefit? Yeah, if you add together the individual watt ratings you get 140. But I don't think that, functionally, you're getting 140W. You're not driving a 10" and a 12" with a collective 140W. You end up with 40W driving a 10" and 100W driving a 12". Will the R40, in this case be providing any measurable benefit? Seems to me the answer would be no. But I'm here to learn.

Tim

I dunno if I found your post you referenced, but this seemed to touch the topic?
.

Just to provide context.

Tim

 

[Drop1]

These points seem to dramatically answer my question I posed not too long ago about the efficacy of connecting 2 mismatched Rumbles (IIRC, a 40 and maybe a 100 or 200, I don't quite recall...). What both of these comments address is specifically what I was asking! Two mismatched, eg. a 40 and a 100 is NOT sending a combined 140W to 2 drivers. It's sending 100W to 1 and 40W to another (of course, assuming max output). So the question pertained to exactly how effective is the maxed-out 40W 10" driver actually contributing to the maxed-out 100W 12" driver. I think, if I read these right, not much! Thanks!!

Tim

It's combo dependant. In this circumstance, I was strictly thinking about the 100 coupled with the 200 "while making them the same volume". "Making them the same volume"is where things become a waste of time. Running both full tilt can gain you noticeable output. If 1 cab is 6 db louder and you turn it down 6db to match the quieter cab, you undo any gain you'd get from adding that second cab. In fact you may likely lose output.
Running the 2 both at full output will give you some extra volume. How they sound together would be subjective.

If you like the sound of mixed cabs or like bi amping (which is awesome when done correctly) mixing cabs that are that staggered in output has merit.

If you like it, do it.
I was just pointing out, reducing the output of the louder cab to match the quieter cab in search of more output was pointless, "in this specfic case".

 

[trseal]

It's combo dependant. In this circumstance, I was strictly thinking about the 100 coupled with the 200 "while making them the same volume". "Making them the same volume"is where things become a waste of time. Running both full tilt can gain you noticeable output. If 1 cab is 6 db louder and you turn it down 6db to match the quieter cab, you undo any gain you'd get from adding that second cab. In fact you may likely lose output.
Running the 2 both at full output will give you some extra volume. How they sound together would be subjective.

If you like the sound of mixed cabs or like bi amping (which is awesome when done correctly) mixing cabs that are that staggered in output has merit.

If you like it, do it.
I was just pointing out, reducing the output of the louder cab to match the quieter cab in search of more output was pointless, "in this specfic case".

Well, now I'm just baffled again. I'll just show myself out...

Tim

 

[G-Dog]

Well, now I'm just baffled again. I'll just show myself out...

Tim

Talk it out, Tim-may! It's called TALKbass for a reason. Use your words. What questions do you have now? Don't even have to list 'em all at once.

Start with the basics. Send to Return chaining, ... good, very good. Send to Input, ... OK, not bad. Add pedal or split signal, ... complicated, it depends.

Now you go.
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[GonePlaid]

Talk it out, Tim-may! It's called TALKbass for a reason. Use your words. What questions do you have now? Don't even have to list 'em all at once.

Start with the basics. Send to Return chaining, ... good, very good. Send to Input, ... OK, not bad. Add pedal or split signal, ... complicated, it depends.

Now you go.
.

I'll just jump in here and ask: Does anyone actually 'dime' their Rumbles? and where so I can avoid that much volume. None of my 3 Rumbles has ever had the MASTER or GAIN past noon, usually ~10-ish.
To reiterate, we haven't had FOH/soundies* since 2015 and in the places we play we only have voices in our PA. If we were gonna play somewhere with 'house' sound, I'd use either the 100 or 200c to send the tone I want to put out. What the soundie would do after that, I can't control.

*Term I came up with after someone had a problem with a militant non-gender specific sound person.

 

[trseal]

I'll just jump in here and ask: Does anyone actually 'dime' their Rumbles? and where so I can avoid that much volume. None of my 3 Rumbles has ever had the MASTER or GAIN past noon, usually ~10-ish.
To reiterate, we haven't had FOH/soundies* since 2015 and in the places we play we only have voices in our PA. If we were gonna play somewhere with 'house' sound, I'd use either the 100 or 200c to send the tone I want to put out. What the soundie would do after that, I can't control.

*Term I came up with after someone had a problem with a militant non-gender specific sound person.

Well, I guess I have to give you a qualified "yes." Even tho I'm old, I'm playing in a classic rock band and we do have a "talented" drummer from a beat/bang/pound standpoint. But he is young. I mean "young" (with a capital YUH!) He has one volume. And it only goes up from there... I wear earplugs.

Most of our indoor venues are large enough, I use "Low" power on my R800 (100W stand-alone output) thru a compressor > OD > volume pedal > amp. I set gain +/- 1:30 and Master @10 (dimed--NOT 10:00)(11 when I have pliers handy). I then adjust for room requirements with the volume pedal. Sometimes it's wide open. This settings change if using an additional cab and/or full power. All that before it goes to the subs...

Btw, we are NOT the loudest band around.

Tim

 

[GonePlaid]

Well, I guess I have to give you a qualified "yes." Even tho I'm old, I'm playing in a classic rock band and we do have a "talented" drummer from a beat/bang/pound standpoint. But he is young. I mean "young" (with a capital YUH!) He has one volume. And it only goes up from there... I wear earplugs.

Most of our indoor venues are large enough, I use "Low" power on my R800 (100W stand-alone output) thru a compressor > OD > volume pedal > amp. I set gain +/- 1:30 and Master @10 (dimed--NOT 10:00)(11 when I have pliers handy). I then adjust for room requirements with the volume pedal. Sometimes it's wide open. This settings change if using an additional cab and/or full power. All that before it goes to the subs...

Btw, we are NOT the loudest band around.

Tim

Our drummer/sorta BL comes from a mostly jazz and doo-wop background. Rarely, and I do mean rarely, plays too loud. Most of the time, not loud enuff-IMO.

 

[G-Dog]

Well, I guess I have to give you a qualified "yes." Even tho I'm old, I'm playing in a classic rock band and we do have a "talented" drummer from a beat/bang/pound standpoint. But he is young. I mean "young" (with a capital YUH!) He has one volume. And it only goes up from there... I wear earplugs.

Most of our indoor venues are large enough, I use "Low" power on my R800 (100W stand-alone output) thru a compressor > OD > volume pedal > amp. I set gain +/- 1:30 and Master @10 (dimed--NOT 10:00)(11 when I have pliers handy). I then adjust for room requirements with the volume pedal. Sometimes it's wide open. This settings change if using an additional cab and/or full power. All that before it goes to the subs...

Btw, we are NOT the loudest band around.

Tim

It was also a "talented", and very young, drummer that made my Bassman 250, at full power, "inadequate to requirements" and drove me to be an early adopter of the newly announced Rumble 500 combo just 10 short years ago now. It was fighting fire with fire, butt I won! We got rid of that young guy for a much more seasoned, little bit older (but not much) drummer who fit in perfectly with our country cover band. A few years later the lead guitarist's messy divorce, and the singer's separation, spelled the end of that band. (sigh)

But my R500c is just as good as the day I bought it! Still Rumbling on!!!
.

 

[trseal]

Our drummer/sorta BL comes from a mostly jazz and doo-wop background. Rarely, and I do mean rarely, plays too loud. Most of the time, not loud enuff-IMO.

(...sigh...) I'd give almost anything to be in a band like that. Most of the s*** we play isn't even anything I particularly like.


*tuf

(How'd I do there, GP?)

Tim

 

[GonePlaid]

(...sigh...) I'd give almost anything to be in a band like that. Most of the s*** we play isn't even anything I particularly like.


*tuf

(How'd I do there, GP?)

Tim

 

[GonePlaid]

(...sigh...) I'd give almost anything to be in a band like that. Most of the s*** we play isn't even anything I particularly like.


*tuf

(How'd I do there, GP?)

Tim

We do mostly 60s/70s rock and country for folks that are in their 60s and 70s. They don't want LOUD. In fact, they compliment us that they can talk to each other while we're playing w/o screaming. Being the wiseacre that I am, I figure they've been married 30+ years, what do they need to talk about.

 

[G-Dog]

we do mostly 60s/70s rock and country for folks that are in their 60s and 70s. They don't want LOUD. In fact, they compliment us that they can talk to each other while we're playing w/o screaming. Being the wiseacre that I am, I figure they've been married 30+ years, what do they need to talk about.

You may be assuming facts not in evidence, sir!

My late father-in-law liked to tell the story about taking his vivacious, slim wife out dancing. Then, seeing some of his workmates there, one of them cornered him and said, "Hey, I thought you said your wife was big & fat?!?" He replied, "She is! This ain't my wife!"

Yes, he was quite a character at work, but at home he was a very strict authoritarian to 8 kids! One time his carpool to work arrived early and one of them knocked on the door and told the young man that answered, "I'm here to pick up Jolly Bob!" To which the young man replied, "You must have the wrong house!" and he shut the door!!
.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I'll just jump in here and ask: Does anyone actually 'dime' their Rumbles? and where so I can avoid that much volume. None of my 3 Rumbles has ever had the MASTER or GAIN past noon, usually ~10-ish.
To reiterate, we haven't had FOH/soundies* since 2015 and in the places we play we only have voices in our PA. If we were gonna play somewhere with 'house' sound, I'd use either the 100 or 200c to send the tone I want to put out. What the soundie would do after that, I can't control.

*Term I came up with after someone had a problem with a militant non-gender specific sound person.

Ha! The Room of Requirement has bookcases, musical instrument cases, carpeting, and other dampeners. Our church meets in a small event center, maybe 40x40 but highly reflective. I run the amps at roughly the same levels in both: gain @ noon, OD off, EQ flat per wiki, volume between 8 & 9 o’clock. Well before the volume hits 10 the soundie[1] wants it down. I dimed it once recently during setup, just because, and the horror on the few faces there was surreal.

[1] I like it!

 

[Miles_ONeal]

It was also a "talented", and very young, drummer that made my Bassman 250, at full power, "inadequate to requirements" and drove me to be an early adopter of the newly announced Rumble 500 combo just 10 short years ago now. It was fighting fire with fire, butt I won! We got rid of that young guy for a much more seasoned, little bit older (but not much) drummer who fit in perfectly with our country cover band. A few years later the lead guitarist's messy divorce, and the singer's separation, spelled the end of that band. (sigh)

But my R500c is just as good as the day I bought it! Still Rumbling on!!!
.

End of the band? That was a country songwriter’s dream! (Sorry for your friends and band…)

 

[GonePlaid]

You may be assuming facts not in evidence, sir!

My late father-in-law liked to tell the story about taking his vivacious, slim wife out dancing. Then, seeing some of his workmates there, one of them cornered him and said, "Hey, I thought you said your wife was big & fat?!?" He replied, "She is! This ain't my wife!"

Yes, he was quite a character at work, but at home he was a very strict authoritarian to 8 kids! One time his carpool to work arrived early and one of them knocked on the door and told the young man that answered, "I'm here to pick up Jolly Bob!" To which the young man replied, "You must have the wrong house!" and he shut the door!!
.

Well, they act married. I don't ask for ID's.
Two excellent answers.

 

[Deleted member 268085]

End of the band? That was a country songwriter’s dream! (Sorry for your friends and band…)

And since they were a country cover band, they had nothing to cover.

 

[G-Dog]

... ... ... A few years later the lead guitarist's messy divorce, and the singer's separation, spelled the end of that band. (sigh)

But my R500c is just as good as the day I bought it! Still Rumbling on!!!
.

End of the band? That was a country songwriter’s dream! (Sorry for your friends and band…)

And since they were a country cover band, they had nothing to cover.

Reckon the wives were listening to our set lists too much! Getting ideas.
.

 

[KenB]

Thanks

It's my understanding that, in chained Rumble combos, the secondary power amp runs flat out full power and it's volume is only controlled by the Master-controlled signal level from the primary amp's FX Send. For that matter, that same signal level also goes to the primary amp's power amp (also running flat out full?). So, of course the 140w 15" combo is always going to be louder than the 100w 12" combo! But together they should certainly give a significant volume, and tone, boost over either alone, especially such near-equal combos.

I guess this is the reason for my disappointment with chaining the 200 and 100.

The sound level difference between 140 watts and 100 watts should not be 6dB, unless there is a huge difference in the efficiency of the drivers!

The volume difference should be less than 1.5 dB, if the drivers have similar efficiency and the power amp sections have similar gain capability.

So it appears the engineers have designed each of the combos for optimum individual performance. They just aren't designed to work well in combination.

I didn't buy the two Rumbles with the intent of using them together, but still, disappointing!

 

[G-Dog]

... ... The sound level difference between 140 watts and 100 watts should not be 6dB, unless there is a huge difference in the efficiency of the drivers!

The volume difference should be less than 1.5 dB, if the drivers have similar efficiency and the power amp sections have similar gain capability.

So it appears the engineers have designed each of the combos for optimum individual performance. They just aren't designed to work well in combination. ... ... ...

Your assumptions as to hardware similarity may be in error.

A. The power amps differ with the 100 being an SMPS and the 200 being an ICEpower module.

2. The speakers are probably not so similar either, since, I believe, the 12" has been identified (right or wrong) as a 75 watt driver and the 15" as a 300 watt! Yes, neither of those are very close to the nameplate wattage, but that has been explained as "design criteria" for one and "manufacturing logistics" for another.

π. The R&D and design goals that went into the Rumble line of amps, cabs and combos did most certainly include working well together, at least in the traditional sense. Probably even with their sibling Bassman line. But, whether that includes chaining of such dissimilar combos is open to conjecture.
J