Fender Rumble Club

[John D Harris]

I have two Rumble 100's (both V3). When chained together, the top maser combo controls everything for both except the volume on the second one.

Are you saying that if one of them is an 8 Ohm version it will control volume on both? If so, I'm wondering if both my combos are 4 Ohm or if one of mine is an 8 Ohm. If one is an 8 Ohm, perhaps if I make it the Master to the 4 Ohm Slave the 8 Ohm Master volume would control both?

I'll have to look. Does it say on the back panel what the Ohm rating is? I'd hate to have to take the speakers out to check.

Despite the inconvenience of reaching the bottom combo's controls when stacked, if one or both combo's power amp is running wide open, that affects how much Gain you can use, which "can" impact the overall tone of the combo/combo.

Gain staging can be an important tool in getting the best tone for your goals.

So just get familiar with where you like to run the Master controls in a gigging situation and small changes with the Gain of the controlling combo will still be within your ideal range.

That's my take on it anyway.

 

[John D Harris]

This tells me the second one has the pre-post switch and you need to run its master wide open *or* if the current first amp does not have the pre/post switch, swap which comes first. Either way will work.

Why run the second Master wide open?

 

[G-Dog]

I have two Rumble 100's (both V3). When chained together, the top maser combo controls everything for both except the volume on the second one. ... ... ...

The 4-ohm unit has the pre/post switch, the 8-ohm does not.

Thanks. Both of mine have the Pre/Post switch. Of course it's not all that hard to adjust two volume controls even when stacked. Not as convenient of course, but doable. ... ... ...

This tells me the second one has the pre-post switch ... ... ...

Yes, that's what I get there, too.​

... ... ... and you need to run its master wide open ... ... ...

mmm, ... ... m-m-y-y-ye-ea-ah, ... if the first amp has no pre-post switch, then its Master can control the volume of both combos with the second amp's Master still able to cut its volume!​

... ... ... *or* if the current first amp does not have the pre/post switch, swap which comes first. Either way will work.

mmm, now that's where I disagree. If the pre-post switch is on the first amp, then there's no working volume control for the second amp (without the pre-post switch) on either amp! So the volume on the bass guitar itself becomes the only volume control for the second amp, which I don't consider workable.​

Given one pre-post R100 and one non-pre-post R100, and no cable splitting, I contend that the non-pre-post amp must be the first (the FX Sending) amp and the pre-post amp the second (FX Returning) amp to be workable, preferably with second amp's Master turned up full to allow full control by the first amp.​

​

That's my 2¢.​

 

[John D Harris]

I'm not sure why we'd reference them by the speaker impedance since that's not listed opn the amp, AFAIK. Just look for the pre/post switch.

I did not know that all R100c's with the Pre/Post Switch were 4 Ohm.

Maybe someone could reach out to Fender ( tagging @agedhorse - as he might know the answer ).

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Why run the second Master wide open?

Good point. I was trying to emulate how things work with two non-pre/post amps, but now I’m not sure which way would work best.

 

[G-Dog]

I did not know that all R100c's with the Pre/Post Switch were 4 Ohm.

Maybe someone could reach out to Fender ( tagging @agedhorse - as he might know the answer ).

Because that's what the Addendum/Technical Note announcing the use of an "alternate power supply and amplifier module" says they used. The elder equine was not at 7ender when that alternative was designed.

 

[John D Harris]

...​

mmm, ... ... m-m-y-y-ye-ea-ah, ... if the first amp has no pre-post switch, then its Master can control the volume of both combos with the second amp's Master still able to cut its volume!​

mmm, now that's where I disagree. If the pre-post switch is on the first amp, then there's no working volume control for the second amp (without the pre-post switch) on either amp! So the volume on the bass guitar itself becomes the only volume control for the second amp, which I don't consider workable.​

Given one pre-post R100 and one non-pre-post R100, and no cable splitting, I contend that the non-pre-post amp must be the first (the FX Sending) amp and the pre-post amp the second (FX Returning) amp to be workable, preferably with second amp's Master turned up full to allow full control by the first amp.​

​

That's my 2¢.​

I modified your statement:
"if the first amp has no pre-post switch, then its Master Gain control can control the volume of both combos with the second amp's Master still able to cut its volume!"

The Gain control of the first combo funtions regardless of Pre/Post or not.
Of course the bass guitar's volume still precedes everything.

You said:
"... preferably with second amp's Master turned up full to allow full control by the first amp. ..."
As long as both Master controls are set about the same And you are able to get the SPL you need with the Gain of the first combo Not maxed out, then you'll be fine.
It all depends on what kind of gain staging gives you the tone you want without excess noise (might get noise if you run the Gain too high).

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
We seem to be generating multiple cans of worms.

 

[John D Harris]

Because that's what the Addendum/Technical Note announcing the use of an "alternate power supply and amplifier module" says they used. The elder equine was not at 7ender when that alternative was designed.

OK.

 

[MadJack]

When I clamp a repair like that, I'll usually place a piece of parchment paper or wax paper between the cabinet and scrap wood so that the scrap wood does not accidentally become glued to the cabinet. Ask me how I know to do this...

I've had that happen to me before. Luckily, this one is tiny and I was able to wipe the excess up pretty easily.

Would the parchment paper on which I used to fold the seasoning into my burgers work?

 

[mapleglo]

I've had that happen to me before. Luckily, this one is tiny and I was able to wipe the excess up pretty easily.

Would the parchment paper on which I used to fold the seasoning into my burgers work?

I've used wax paper with great results. I've used wax paper when I epoxy things together and it prevents the epoxy from bonding to the work bench, so that's my first choice. I've heard parchment paper also works well for this purpose but I don't remember ever using it. Parchment paper has better heat resistance and features a silicone coating as opposed to wax paper's wax coating.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Because that's what the Addendum/Technical Note announcing the use of an "alternate power supply and amplifier module" says they used. The elder equine was not at 7ender when that alternative was designed.

But it’s basically irrelevant unless swapping speakers.

 

[G-Dog]

Posted July 27, 2015: Today's Rumble Talk focuses the spotlight on Gain Structure.
We are very fortunate to get this educational information direct from my contact inside Fender Bass Amplification.

Gain structure for amplifiers is a balancing act between what clips first, the preamp or the power amp, and what sounds best depends on the desired tone goal.

For most old school tube amps the MASTER control functions as an attenuator and only reduces the amount of preamp signal sent to the power amp, so the ‘cleanest’ preamp signal is achieved with the MASTER is full up (no attenuation). This drives the tube power amp harder and pushes it towards more severe clipping (sometimes but not always desired).

For Rumble, starting with the MASTER at noon is a good choice (and is unity gain at that setting) to begin setting the GAIN control. The input GAIN control on Rumble V3 is essentially a variable input pad (like Active/passive or –dB switch seen on other amplifiers). We chose this over the typical fixed gain stage with pad switch in order to take advantage of the increased dynamic compression effect of the VINTAGE and OVERDRIVE circuits that benefit from higher signal/gain levels. Bass players looking for a ‘cleaner’ tone might start with a GAIN setting of 9’oclock to noon which is in the normal range of ‘passive’ input stages for typical amps. Higher GAIN settings will also increase the sustain/distortion (as will having VINTAGE active) for OVERDRIVE (cascaded with DRIVE control). A lot more variety is available this way.

Rumble MASTER settings above noon drive the power amp harder, and the modified Delta-Comp Limiter will keep the power amp from hard clipping, so that creates a sound of its own and not necessarily a ‘clean’ one the harder you drive it. It will definitely result in a more compressed sound, and depending on your tone goals, may or may not be desirable.

In the end, there is no right answer. Both GAIN and MASTER affect the sound level from the speaker, but knowing how each affects the signal chain will guide you how to set either for the desired tone goal.

If you haven't read the Rumble Talk covering the new Overdrive; Vintage voicing, and modified Delta-Comp Limiter, you should as all the technical information came from this very same completely reliable inside source. It will go a long way in helping you to understand how this all interacts together. I'm learning as much here as anyone.
Fender Rumble Overdrive and Vintage Voicing

Posted April 10, 2018: The gain does directly affect the level of overdrive. However, Rumbles work a little different than most people who’ve used other amps are used to.

First of all, Fender’s built-in Delta-Comp limiter makes it very difficult to clip the signal at all. That’s why the Rumbles have no clip light - it just doesn’t serve a useful function. That also means that listening for signal clipping doesn’t really work with Rumbles.

The Gain knob basically works as a variable input pad. That makes the Rumble perfect for players with active basses, as you can adjust the incoming signal in as you like, and not have to settle for a -10db input. The Rumble will work fine even when the gain knob is set to zero. I play a mix of active and passive basses, and usually keep my gain setting at 9 o’clock and lower.

The overdrive control consists of two knobs, Drive and Level. Drive sets the distortion level (this will vary with the amount of gain set), and Level controls the volume of the effect, allowing you to align it with the master volume to avoid any jump in volume when Overdrive is engaged.

All this makes the Overdrive on the Rumbles extremely simple to use. You don’t have to worry about clipping, just plug your bass in, turn on Overdrive, adjust Gain, Drive and Level to taste, and play. Easy as that.

Posted April 11, 2023: Gain is not volume, but it affects volume. Gain controls the signal coming in to the pre-amp and really is for matching the input signal from the instrument to the preamp. That is why, if you turn it up, it increases volume but also will overdrive pre-amp. That is why you get some distortion when you do. Volume is the master volume control for the power amp section. I usually run my gain on about 9 o'clock and my volume will usually be between 9 and 12.

I modified your statement:
"if the first amp has no pre-post switch, then its Master Gain control can control the volume of both combos with the second amp's Master still able to cut its volume!"

The Gain control of the first combo funtions regardless of Pre/Post or not.
Of course the bass guitar's volume still precedes everything.

You said:
"... preferably with second amp's Master turned up full to allow full control by the first amp. ..."
As long as both Master controls are set about the same And you are able to get the SPL you need with the Gain of the first combo Not maxed out, then you'll be fine.
It all depends on what kind of gain staging gives you the tone you want without excess noise (might get noise if you run the Gain too high).

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
We seem to be generating multiple cans of worms.

I stand by what I posted, John. No modification needed. See above references, especially the first one from a 7ender insider. Rumble Gain is essentially a variable input pad used more for tonal adjustments in conjunction with the Vintage and Overdrive circuits, not a volume. You may be thinking of other, possibly tube, amps.​

 

[GonePlaid]

I stand by what I posted, John. No modification needed. See above references, especially the first one from a 7ender insider. Rumble Gain is essentially a variable input pad used more for tonal adjustments in conjunction with the Vintage and Overdrive circuits, not a volume. You may be thinking of other, possibly tube, amps.​

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This past Friday night's gig was the first time my R100's GAIN and VOLUME were both just past noon. VINTAGE always on/in; BRIGHT for presence needed for the room.

 

[John D Harris]

I stand by what I posted, John. No modification needed. See above references, especially the first one from a 7ender insider. Rumble Gain is essentially a variable input pad used more for tonal adjustments in conjunction with the Vintage and Overdrive circuits, not a volume. You may be thinking of other, possibly tube, amps.​

View attachment 7409901

View attachment 7409902

Are you saying, "ADJUSTS INCOMING SIGNAL LEVEL", doesn't affect the available SPL?

You quoted Gravedigger dav, who said, "Gain is not volume, but it affects volume.".

I'll put it this way - "more gain" = "more SPL" - assuming everything else is not turned completely down.

It affects the tone to a certain degree, but it is not primarily a tone control.

It controls how strong of a signal the power amp section receives, which in turn controls overall SPL.

One thing I learned, is that the Rumbles can be used with the Gain control at its minimum setting.
How many people use it that way on a gig, I can't imagine, unless it an extremely low volume gig inside of library (over-the-top analogy?).

Can I see the number of hands of bassists who regularly plug their bass guitars or pedal boards into the Instrument Input on a Rumble 100 combo and play a gig with the Gain control set at minimum?

 

[John D Harris]

Are you saying, "ADJUSTS INCOMING SIGNAL LEVEL", doesn't affect the available SPL?

You quoted Gravedigger dav, who said, "Gain is not volume, but it affects volume.".

I'll put it this way - "more gain" = "more SPL" - assuming everything else is not turned completely down.

It affects the tone to a certain degree, but it is not primarily a tone control.

It controls how strong of a signal the power amp section receives, which in turn controls overall SPL.

One thing I learned, is that the Rumbles can be used with the Gain control at its minimum setting.
How many people use it that way on a gig, I can't imagine, unless it an extremely low volume gig inside of library (over-the-top analogy?).

Can I see the number of hands of bassists who regularly plug their bass guitars or pedal boards into the Instrument Input on a Rumble 100 combo and play a gig with the Gain control set at minimum?

I guess if you play with the Master control maxed out, you might need the Gain all the way down.

 

[GonePlaid]

I guess if you play with the Master control maxed out, you might need the Gain all the way down.

I usually have both at ~10 except on the rare occasions I use my active Les Paul 5er. Then gain is ~7(o'clock)
Oops! Edit: 8

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Are you saying, "ADJUSTS INCOMING SIGNAL LEVEL", doesn't affect the available SPL?

You quoted Gravedigger dav, who said, "Gain is not volume, but it affects volume.".

I'll put it this way - "more gain" = "more SPL" - assuming everything else is not turned completely down.

It affects the tone to a certain degree, but it is not primarily a tone control.

It controls how strong of a signal the power amp section receives, which in turn controls overall SPL.

One thing I learned, is that the Rumbles can be used with the Gain control at its minimum setting.
How many people use it that way on a gig, I can't imagine, unless it an extremely low volume gig inside of library (over-the-top analogy?).

Can I see the number of hands of bassists who regularly plug their bass guitars or pedal boards into the Instrument Input on a Rumble 100 combo and play a gig with the Gain control set at minimum?

I’ve done that. It completely depends on the gig and the bass and/or pedal chain. The Gain control on a Rumble is the equivalent of a variable pad on a mixer input. I normally run those as hot as I can without distortion. On occasion, that’s at min.

 

[John D Harris]

I’ve done that. It completely depends on the gig and the bass and/or pedal chain. The Gain control on a Rumble is the equivalent of a variable pad on a mixer input. I normally run those as hot as I can without distortion. On occasion, that’s at min.

When at Minimum was that with one R100c or two?

If it was two, where do you usually have the Masters set?

 

[Miles_ONeal]

When at Minimum was that with one R100c or two?

If it was two, where do you usually have the Masters set?

Both ways. Neither of mine has pre/post so with two only the 1st master matters. I’ve played that way with master below 9 all the way to wide open (outdoors).

 

[GonePlaid]

Both ways. Neither of mine has pre/post so with two only the 1st master matters. I’ve played that way with master below 9 all the way to wide open (outdoors).

One of the 2 times I got to play through 2xR100s-one mine, one a friend's; other time, 2x someone else's, they were ~10/10 MASTER/GAIN. The sound-both times-was incredible@~150W +/- >2x12. Just what I wanted.