Fender Rumble Club

[ubernator]

They aren't better just different and of course more expensive. The Mesa D-800 and Genzler Magellan 800 are no better than the new Bassman 800.
It's up to you to buy what sounds best to you. MarkBass is just overpriced, and is neither better nor boutique. If Fender Rumble is the Ford of bass amps then GK is the Chevy and Hartke is Dodge.

Who is Saturn? Funny, I always thought you liked fender more than GK?!?!?!?!? Or did you choose ford because it also starts with an F? Whatever you do, please don't equate Chevy with carvin or crate because they start with a C, I may have to sell my 2003 astro AWD if you do.

Hartke is the dodge agreed. What is Peavey?

 

[RedVee]

Fender Rumble is the Ford of bass amps then GK is the Chevy and Hartke is Dodge.

Well that just put me off.

 

[ubernator]

Well that just put me off.

I know right?!?!?!!

Found on road dead
Fix or repair daily
F'd old rebuilt Dodge

 

[Linnin]

What is Peavey?

Pontiac

 

[Linnin]

Well that just put me off.

First On Race Day!

 

[Linnin]

Who is Saturn?

dampig

 

[ubernator]

Pontiac

Peavey still exists though

 

[Linnin]

Peavey still exists though

Really?

 

[ubernator]

Really?

As long as metalheads are rocking 6505s, and beginners need cheap solid state amps, there will always be a reason for peavey to exist. I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon. And the valveking is an incredible value in the tube guitar amp world for those leary of the high lemon rate among bugera (and some of those are 5150/6505/XXX peavey clones). Also,.gotta.admit the peavey classic 30 is a pretty cool tube amp too.

 

[Aahzz]

As long as metalheads are rocking 6505s, and beginners need cheap solid state amps, there will always be a reason for peavey to exist. I doubt they are going anywhere anytime soon. And the valveking is an incredible value in the tube guitar amp world for those leary of the high lemon rate among bugera (and some of those are 5150/6505/XXX peavey clones). Also,.gotta.admit the peavey classic 30 is a pretty cool tube amp too.

Yup - on the six string side of things, I've owned many a tube amp, from Marshall to Fender to Mesa and many points in between - and my favorite is a Peavey Classic 50.

 

[ubernator]

Yup - on the six string side of things, I've owned many a tube amp, from Marshall to Fender to Mesa and many points in between - and my favorite is a Peavey Classic 50.

I gotta wonder how they rate those as 50w, even mesa needs to use the dyna watt technology to call a pair of el84s 25w, which is a pulse technology only getting that full power in bursts. But then again peavey rates the 6l6 quad at 120 when most do 100. So the difference in the classic 30 vs 50 is a higher rated output transformer, but they are not doing anything fancy like Dyna watt, and the classic 50 has been around longer than Dyna watt (maybe, though The DC-3 said Dyna watt on the back , but back then they were only claiming 35w for a quad of el84s)

I like el84 amps.

 

[Scott Truesdell]

...The v3 Rumble get's such good reviews but cost so much less than other brands...it leaves me wondering do the heads that cost nearly twice what the rumble does actually sound that much better?

Audio engineers are clever, resourceful folk. Given a little prior art and R&D time, a competent engineer can wrangle just about any sound he or she can imagine out of a pile of components. So as far as sound goes -- electronically, anyway -- the engineer's cleverness and upper management's requirements determine what the product will sound like. Generally speaking, the electronics sections of an amp or combo are the cheapest parts and most of those components are commodities.

For the mechanical side of things, starting with the amp, all the potentiometers, jacks, switches, etc. have a definite hierarchy of quality. CTS pots, Switchcraft jacks, etc. are higher quality than the no-name Chinese equivalents. And they cost more.

And the cabinets have a lot of opportunity for cost savings. The kind of wood that is used, the thickness of the Tolex or whatever off-brand covering can be sourced, the joinery, etc. all influence sound and the final manufactured cost.

Finally, the speaker has a huge influence on the final sound and the manufacturing cost of the product.

So how does Fender price their Rumble line so competitively?

The amplifier sections make the sound that Fender management and engineers want. Cost: no more and no less than pretty much any other solid state amps.

The cabinets are made from locally-sourced woods and the joinery is "basic" (white glue, cleats, and staples.) Money saved. Downside: very slightly less robust cabinetry.

Hardware: big cost savings here. The pots, jacks, and switches are all downgraded from boutique products. For those of us in the USA, it's the "Radio Shack" formula and it's been in place for decades. Squier instruments use the same cost-cutting measures. It's no coincidence that many Rumble problems involve scratchy pots or intermittent jacks.

Speakers: The Rumble line uses great speakers for the price point. Without looking at Fender's product cost analysis, I can't be sure, but from what I hear and see, the speakers are the finest parts of these combos.

Finally, we throw all these pieces together using streamlined procedures and low-cost labor. This is another area where Rumbles have occasional small problems. Loose screws and cold solder joints seem to crop up on this board from time-to-time. Some cabinets have some acoustic batting inside, others do not, and some members like the sound they get by adding some acoustic batting or foam. Either way, it's a cheap and easy modification.

That should pretty well explain the cost differences between Fender's low-cost (Rumble) line versus their higher-cost (Bassman) line and other manufacturers' boutique lines. I just winged this so hopefully I didn't make any glaring errors or omissions.

 

[CalBuzz51]

To all the Rumblers out there:
As mentioned in an earlier post, I am getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on a Rumble rig(500 head and 210 cab).
I wont have many opportunities in my life to get a new rig and am having second thoughts about maybe looking at so called "higher end" brands like Aguilar, Mesa, Mark, etc.
My question is: The v3 Rumble get's such good reviews but cost so much less than other brands...it leaves me wondering do the heads that cost nearly twice what the rumble does actually sound that much better? For example(totally subjective i know), are the more expensive "boutique" brands only 10-15% "better" tone/feature/flexibility wise for 75% or more the cost? Im not willing to pay nearly double for just a little bit of return I would love to hear from folks who have replaced "high end" brands with a Rumble, it would ease my worries a bit...

I run a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 through a Rumble v3 115 and 210 stack.
At about 35lbs each, I can carry both cabs in one trip. Also, having 2 cabs 44" tall means the sound isn't blowing by my knees; I can hear myself every gig.
Each cab handles 300-350w rms so they are a well matched pair power wise. I find they sound really good together, and are probably loud enough to handle any indoor gig with my 6 -piece country band.

Lately I have been jonesing for 2x210 barefaced cabs with a mesa 800. That rig new would cost a little more than double what I paid for my current rig... so I don't know, GAS is a funny thing.

I will soon get BF 210 just to start, but really my current cabs have been great for my needs.

 

[harleyboy]

DerekW is correct. Effects send from the top (master) amp tp the effect return of the bottom one. It doesn't matter how the controls are set on the slave amp as you are bypassing the entire preamp section and using the pre-amp of the master amp. The top amp controls work for both amps in this configuration.

Thanks! I have one Rumble 500 and was debating the extension cab or another 500! Glad to know the details! I have only played the Rumble for 2 gigs but I Love It!! I have had Aguilar, Genz Benz, Peavey, Ampeg, and Hartke. At the moment this thing is awesome! Especially for the dollar to dollar value!!

 

[FirewalZ]

Audio engineers are clever, resourceful folk. Given a little prior art and R&D time, a competent engineer can wrangle just about any sound he or she can imagine out of a pile of components. So as far as sound goes -- electronically, anyway -- the engineer's cleverness and upper management's requirements determine what the product will sound like. Generally speaking, the electronics sections of an amp or combo are the cheapest parts and most of those components are commodities.

For the mechanical side of things, starting with the amp, all the potentiometers, jacks, switches, etc. have a definite hierarchy of quality. CTS pots, Switchcraft jacks, etc. are higher quality than the no-name Chinese equivalents. And they cost more.

And the cabinets have a lot of opportunity for cost savings. The kind of wood that is used, the thickness of the Tolex or whatever off-brand covering can be sourced, the joinery, etc. all influence sound and the final manufactured cost.

Finally, the speaker has a huge influence on the final sound and the manufacturing cost of the product.

So how does Fender price their Rumble line so competitively?

The amplifier sections make the sound that Fender management and engineers want. Cost: no more and no less than pretty much any other solid state amps.

The cabinets are made from locally-sourced woods and the joinery is "basic" (white glue, cleats, and staples.) Money saved. Downside: very slightly less robust cabinetry.

Hardware: big cost savings here. The pots, jacks, and switches are all downgraded from boutique products. For those of us in the USA, it's the "Radio Shack" formula and it's been in place for decades. Squier instruments use the same cost-cutting measures. It's no coincidence that many Rumble problems involve scratchy pots or intermittent jacks.

Speakers: The Rumble line uses great speakers for the price point. Without looking at Fender's product cost analysis, I can't be sure, but from what I hear and see, the speakers are the finest parts of these combos.

Finally, we throw all these pieces together using streamlined procedures and low-cost labor. This is another area where Rumbles have occasional small problems. Loose screws and cold solder joints seem to crop up on this board from time-to-time. Some cabinets have some acoustic batting inside, others do not, and some members like the sound they get by adding some acoustic batting or foam. Either way, it's a cheap and easy modification.

That should pretty well explain the cost differences between Fender's low-cost (Rumble) line versus their higher-cost (Bassman) line and other manufacturers' boutique lines. I just winged this so hopefully I didn't make any glaring errors or omissions.

Thanks, yes this does make since and as a "Corporate IT Guy" it rings true of pretty much any product or service you produce. So the increased cost of high end products is mainly tied to the use of higher end internal components and this does not necessarily relate to a better sound, possibly a decrease in "faulty" units, but not tone. Well with a 5 year warranty(assuming it's legit and not a bunch of strings attached), that would ease my worry.

 

[Linnin]

So the increased cost of high end products is mainly tied to the use of higher end internal components and this does not necessarily relate to a better sound,

The main reason for increased prices is to increase per unit profit. The best and easiest way to put more $$$ in my bank account is to take more $$$ out of your wallet. If I can surround my product with a boutique aura so much the better especially if I make up outrageously good specifications and put them out as truth. There is a lot of that out there. Buyer Beware.

Even for those bass players that do not like Fender Rumbles, you have to like their value pricing as that has kept competitors in line and consumers get a more fairly priced product.

 

[munkeyfish]

The main reason for increased prices is to increase per unit profit. The best and easiest way to put more $$$ in my bank account is to take more $$$ out of your wallet. If I can surround my product with a boutique aura so much the better especially if I make up outrageously good specifications and put them out as truth. There is a lot of that out there. Buyer Beware.

Even for those bass players that do not like Fender Rumbles, you have to like their value pricing as that has kept competitors in line and consumers get a more fairly priced product.

Fairly priced competition , Mesa is a prime example with the release of the Subway Series .

 

[Indiedog]

I still love my 500 C but last night Nick Beggs was playing a wonderfully sounding 8x10 EBS rig with Steven Wilson. Yummy sound.

That guy is a monster on bass and Stick.

 

[BazzaBass]

Yes you can have extension cabs with chained combos.
You could end up with 1,000 watts into 8 10" speakers, for example.

Just to be clear on all this chaining stuff, here's a section from the Fender Bassman 500 amplifier head manual:

Fender explicitly says that PREAMP OUT / POWER AMP IN (what is called the EFFECTS LOOP on the Rumbles) can be used for either an EFFECTS LOOP or to chain two amps together in a master/slave setup.

Here's the block diagram of the Rumble v3 40-500 amps:

Notice in this block diagram, when you plug into FX RETURN, you disconnect the preamp/tone section from the power amp/speakers. Plugging into FX SEND does not disconnect anything.

And in case it wasn't clear, here's how you chain two combos:

Thank you very much. Sometimes there is so much information (noise) on TB that I too get confused

 

[Scott Truesdell]

... as a "Corporate IT Guy" ...
with a 5 year warranty, that would ease my worry.

So yeah, it's like buying a Seagate HD; it either fails within a few days or you're good to go.

Design Engineering is a very different job than Production Engineering, even though they are both dependent on each other. Here's what we want, now how do we make it? Then you weigh the costs of post-production QC (burn-in) versus replacing the few units that fail. By adopting the latter strategy, you're only out the cost of shipping.