Fodera Club Part VIII

[cnltb]

I agree with you. But to play devil's advocate, wouldn't that mean you would be playing a Fender and not a Sadowsky?

beat me to it.

 

[TheSiberian]

Of course Stradivari was not the first but it looks he was the best.
So in all this actual "Fender clone world" hype, eventually will be remembered only the best sounding ones.
However, price and hype wise, the games are done...The vintage original rules.

Did you mean Amati(1505-1578)? -Not sure if he was the first, but he sure preceded AntonioStradivarius(1644-1737).

 

[cnltb]

Of course Stradivari was not the first but it looks he was the best.
So in all this actual "Fender clone world" hype, eventually will be remembered only the best sounding ones.
However, price and hype wise, the games are done...The vintage original rules.

well... "The best"...is a very dangerous place-especially with soo many very capable builders of solid body electric basses around.
In the case of violins I can think of only three major names( there may obviously more...) -Amati, Stradivari and Guarneri.

So once we are past the marketing and hype, I think Taste more than any other, is the deciding factor when it comes to electric basses.

 

[Rich Treat]

+1! Totally agree with you here. Certainly inspired by fodera's body shapes, but with some subtle differences. The carving on the neck joint of the single cut is drastically different.

By the way, I'd be more interested in hearing the tone of one of these. Clearly the tonal goal is different with the pick up and electronics selection.

Except that they're not exact duplicates are they? No more than say a NYC is an exact duplicate of a FMT Jazz. They have certainly pinched certain design cues from Fodera, Dzozd and Ritter and amalgamated them, but the overall product is not an exact duplicate of any of those products. Its just a question of degree. How much was the Emperor or an NYC inspired by a Fender Jazz vs how much of it is original design? How much of these basses are taking inspiration from three distinct brands and amalgamating them rather into a different bass rather than just building an Emperor clone?

As may people have mentioned, every builder, including Fodera, takes inspiration from whats come before them. Are there truely any original ideas in bass building? Maybe, but they are pretty rare.

 

[TheSiberian]

Ha ha, yes you are right.
It looks I have an expensive taste.
Even the hardest working marketing and hype together will not do better... ":0)

So once we are past the marketing and hype, I think Taste more than any other, is the deciding factor when it comes to electric basses.

 

[ian_s]

Everyone in musical instrument design takes ideas from one another, and as in every field of design there are innovators, experimenters alongside classic, "timeless" designs.

I think the main lesson from the Fender et al lawsuit era was that fighting that fight is a huge investment of resources, and only serves to drive up the market on the imitator's product. Trademarks need to be carefully curated and appropriately defended, and "appropriate" is a hard line to draw.

Enough law, more pretty bass pictures, please.

 

[steubig]

By the way, my relatively benign view of this stuff is NOT shared by my partners. And, given how much of their lives went into getting Fodera to this point and the personal sacrifices that they made along the way, I cannot blame them...

;-) like i said, not as forgiving. still, i sorta said what you said about flattery.

don't blame 'em at all. i've heard guys cop my stuff (and stuff of friends of mine) and wish they could just figure out their own.

 

[BassSaxMan]

Except that they're not exact duplicates are they? No more than say a NYC is an exact duplicate of a FMT Jazz. They have certainly pinched certain design cues from Fodera, Dzozd and Ritter and amalgamated them, but the overall product is not an exact duplicate of any of those products. Its just a question of degree. How much was the Emperor or an NYC inspired by a Fender Jazz vs how much of it is original design? How much of these basses are taking inspiration from three distinct brands and amalgamating them rather into a different bass rather than just building an Emperor clone?

As may people have mentioned, every builder, including Fodera, takes inspiration from whats come before them. Are there truely any original ideas in bass building? Maybe, but they are pretty rare.

I was talking about the bodies, yes. They are duplicates. Sure the pickups are different shapes (ripping off Jerzy there!) but if you look at the body styles they are the same. How can you not see it? Not only that he steals other Fodera shapes too. Takes the Emperor II and duplicates it, then adds a little point to the butt.

Anyway...

 

[Ivan M]

I agree with you. But to play devil's advocate, wouldn't that mean you would be playing a Fender and not a Sadowsky?

Seriously if i have to explain the difference between the 2 then you have missed my point.

 

[Marlat]

I was talking about the bodies, yes. They are duplicates. Sure the pickups are different shapes (ripping off Jerzy there!) but if you look at the body styles they are the same. How can you not see it? Not only that he steals other Fodera shapes too. Takes the Emperor II and duplicates it, then adds a little point to the butt.

Anyway...

You didn't say that you were only referring to the bodies in your post, so how would a reader know that?

 

[BassSaxMan]

Big time! It's also a matter of personal taste...although I am intellectually interested by those luthiers that make instruments strikingly similar to ours, I (speaking personally only) would never want to own or routinely play one of them. I am a guy that respects the genuine article...in wine, in art, in music, in cars, in homes...I like to get back to the root of the inspiration and deal with that on its terms.

Thank goodness that it is a big World and that there are enough people in it that can tell the differences, respect the differences and be interested enough in what we do to keep us busy.

By the way, my relatively benign view of this stuff is NOT shared by my partners. And, given how much of their lives went into getting Fodera to this point and the personal sacrifices that they made along the way, I cannot blame them...

Good to know. Always easy to separate the true artists from the pretenders.

 

[sigmafloyd]

Seriously if i have to explain the difference between the 2 then you have missed my point.

Was your point not that you preferred genuine articles over copies? If that wasn't your point, then I did miss it.

 

[BassSaxMan]

You didn't say that you were only referring to the bodies in your post, so how would a reader know that?

I might have put that in the other thread where I commented, stating they had Fodera bodies, Jerzy pickups and a Ritter style headstock. I'd have to be pretty dumb to say the headstocks were the same.

I just don't see a single original design element in there. Meanwhile there are plenty of builders, great ones too, that do have original designs. I just have a real problem with people who work that way.

 

[emjazz]

I was talking about the bodies, yes. They are duplicates. Sure the pickups are different shapes (ripping off Jerzy there!) but if you look at the body styles they are the same. How can you not see it? Not only that he steals other Fodera shapes too. Takes the Emperor II and duplicates it, then adds a little point to the butt.

Anyway...

Since you never responded to what I said in the other thread I'll repeat myself here.....some would consider the bass in your avatar a direct ripoff of Fodera considering it's a singlecut design. How is that any different? Where do you draw the line? I love Pete's work, but it's a point that should be brought up considering your opinion is so strong regarding this issue. The body is obviously a different shape, but the fact that it is a single cut takes directly from Fodera's and Anthony Jackson's creation. How is that not the same?

 

[BassSaxMan]

Since you never responded to what I said in the other thread I'll repeat myself here.....some would consider the bass in your avatar a direct ripoff of Fodera considering it's a singlecut design. How is that any different? Where do you draw the line? I love Pete's work, but it's a point that should be brought up considering your opinion is so strong regarding this issue. The body is obviously a different shape, but the fact that it is a single cut takes directly from Fodera's and Anthony Jackson's creation. How is that not the same?

Uhh...of course it's not the same. You know I've owned Garrison basses, and Imperials (along with a beez elite, now known as the Imperial II), and this bass looks nothing like those. Nothing. It's not even a neck through, it's a bolt on. I said earlier being "inspired" is cool. Fodera did NOT invent "the single cut". Sure they pioneered the modern styling as applied to basses, but their designs are their own, and other bass makers saw that and made their own as well. I remember when Carey was making custom basses and he had his own single cut that looked NOTHING like a Fodera, yet he still gave a shout out to being inspired by Fodera on his site. Probably not even needed given the disparity in appearances, but Carey has class. How can you guys not see the huge difference here? Do you think your original Nordstrand six string single cut with the redgum top looked like a Fodera? I laugh at people calling ME out, like taking a stand in support of these guys is controversial, but literally making thousands of dollars off of someone else's vision is a-ok?

You draw the line at plagiarism. I think that's pretty clear. If you can trace over two different bodies and they are the same...if all of the carving, and the joint styles are ALL identical...that's crossing the line. Are you guys missing the gulf between inspiration and stealing that we are talking about here?

I'm not trying to be some angry d-bag here, but on the rare occasions these basses pop up (and they are ALWAYS Fodera rips) I just have to voice my personal opinion. That kind of thing should simply not be supported.

 

[cnltb]

some would consider the bass in your avatar a direct ripoff of Fodera considering it's a singlecut design.

I guess that might be the same peopel that consider fodera singlecuts a "direct ripoff" of the Les paul ?

 

[slamsinger]

Look what mr ups brought me
Today!!!!

 

[lamarjones]

calling all singlecuts a copy is a huge stretch. whoever wants to shout that has no idea where that logic train goes.

I did go to the shop with my 'fauxdera' so that my bass can really be as comfy as possible and I got to say they were as cool as it gets. Sure I know it probably grinds their gears but Vinnie was about as classy as you could be about it all. Jason obviously is as well.

Had a discussion about how rich people treat the poor sometimes, and someone said 'How you treat those who can do nothing for you is the hallmark of character'. I certainly believe the Fodera crew has shown their character.

TB, well, different story

 

[slamsinger]

And a couple more ...... WOW!! what a beauty ..... My first brand new fodera...

 

[slamsinger]

Ok....... Can someone explain this green block ?..... Are those just screw terminals or pots for adjusting things?....sorry I'm new to the fodera lineup.....it's a 2010 pope pre if that helps