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Fodera Club Part XX

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I have very little experience with mahogany as a body wood or tone block material. How would one compare them to northern ash, walnut, or alder tonally? I feel like its a super heavy wood....
I decided on mahogany over walnut on my current Monarch Deluxe 5 build. Mahogany can be heavy (think '70's/'80's Les Pauls) but Fodera seems to work with lighter weight mahogany. My build (walnut top, set neck, 5 string, ebony...) will very likely be under 10 lbs and lighter than walnut.

I spent a lot of time looking for a combination that will be different tonally than my E5S and I am confident mahogany/walnut/ebony gives me that.
 
Anyone know the compound radius commonly used all these wonderful Foderas?!

We recently asked this question in the Link Removed. According to Vinny, Fodera always uses compound radii, measuring roughly 10" at the nut to 20" at the end of the fingerboard. He does state that individual instruments may vary.
 
I don't like the tone that Bona gets. A friend of mine briefly owned a Bona Imperial and it was about the worst sounding high-end bass either of us has ever heard. It had a very weak B string and just got lost in the mix. I believe the pickups were Duncan duals. That said, Bona's tone is better sounding than that particular bass.
 
I am surprise to read this, as I can't imagine Fodera bulding a not perfect bass.

Maybe the bass was strung with old strings, or have been tested with a bad amp.

Could you explain in wich condition you tryed this bass ?

I don't like the tone that Bona gets. A friend of mine briefly owned a Bona Imperial and it was about the worst sounding high-end bass either of us has ever heard. It had a very weak B string and just got lost in the mix. I believe the pickups were Duncan duals. That said, Bona's tone is better sounding than that particular bass.
 
In all conditions. New strings, different amps, gigs, recording, etc. It just didn't sound good to either of us or any of our bass playing friends. He owned it for 3 or 4 months trying to make it work but had to sell it. I believe he sold it to the original owner(not who he bought it from) who I believe is happy with the bass. This was several years ago so who knows where the bass is now.
 
While I think the Rob Allen basses have a very cool vibe and can be upright-ish. To say it is the best amplified upright you've ever heard is way off the mark IMO.

Most amplified uprights I've heard frankly don't sound very good. Acoustic there is no question that a RA is not an upright. But once you slap a pickup on the db all bets are off.
 
I don't like the tone that Bona gets. A friend of mine briefly owned a Bona Imperial and it was about the worst sounding high-end bass either of us has ever heard. It had a very weak B string and just got lost in the mix. I believe the pickups were Duncan duals. That said, Bona's tone is better sounding than that particular bass.

I just find that so hard to believe. My Imperial is very similar to a Bona model, the only differences being the tone block material, pickups (Bona comes with EMGs and mine has Duncans), and tuner config (Bona is 3+2, mine is 2+3) and it's the greatest feeling/sounding instrument I've ever owned or even played! Based on things you've said over the last few days it's getting hard for me to imagine what you actually think is "good tone" haha....I agree, the Bona model has an inherent brightness and punch but if anything that's what helps it project through a mix....interesting that you used the word "weak" though. When I first got my bass it had these plastic cover EMG shaped duncans that sounded very weird and compressed and when I brought it to the shop once for a checkup I used the word "weak" to describe how it sounded to me on certain stages. I had Joey change the tone pot to a .05, and ultimately had the pickups changed to original sized Duncan duals with the polepieces exposed. Since then I haven't had a single complaint. Perhaps the Bona model you played had those same EMG shaped duals? that's about the only thing I could think of that would ever warrant anybody to use adjectives like that about that model Imperial IMO....
 
Most amplified uprights I've heard frankly don't sound very good. Acoustic there is no question that a RA is not an upright. But once you slap a pickup on the db all bets are off.

I can agree with that. I've heard and played with some awful sounding upright pickups and you never know how the room or that particular amp is going to react to it. So I see where you're coming from. You have a more controlled upright-like tone. But I get you Pete, there's nothing quite like the real thing, if you can make it sound good!
 
I decided on mahogany over walnut on my current Monarch Deluxe 5 build. Mahogany can be heavy (think '70's/'80's Les Pauls) but Fodera seems to work with lighter weight mahogany. My build (walnut top, set neck, 5 string, ebony...) will very likely be under 10 lbs and lighter than walnut.

I spent a lot of time looking for a combination that will be different tonally than my E5S and I am confident mahogany/walnut/ebony gives me that.

But I'm curious what tonal characteristics a mahogany body implies....deeper lows? warmer mids? what's it's thing?
 
I can only imagine a preamp or pups problem...

Your friend didn't send the bass back to Fodera for a service ?

In all conditions. New strings, different amps, gigs, recording, etc. It just didn't sound good to either of us or any of our bass playing friends. He owned it for 3 or 4 months trying to make it work but had to sell it. I believe he sold it to the original owner(not who he bought it from) who I believe is happy with the bass. This was several years ago so who knows where the bass is now.
 
IIRC mahogany is often the most balanced body wood out of the "big four" (with alder, ash, & walnut). Neither lows, mids, nor highs are compressed or emphasized more than each other. This is why Mike Pope went for Mahogany & Ebony for his Viceroy - to give it the most neutral-sounding basis to be shaped by the movable pickup and preamp.

But this is just what I've read. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :)
 
IIRC mahogany is often the most balanced body wood out of the "big four" (with alder, ash, & walnut). Neither lows, mids, nor highs are compressed or emphasized more than each other. This is why Mike Pope went for Mahogany & Ebony for his Viceroy - to give it the most neutral-sounding basis to be shaped by the movable pickup and preamp.

But this is just what I've read. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :)

Interesting....I like that! I just heard it was one of the heaviest woods which was kind of a turn off for me but evidently that's not always the case....need to get my hands on some mahogany basses!
 
I assure you all that it was not a pickup or preamp problem. The bass just didn't sound good, and in fact did not play as well as all other Fodera's I've played. My friend has owned 7 or 8 Fodera's and I've owned a few and know what I'm talking about. I think Fodera makes the finest bass in the world but it's not hard for me to believe one or two leave the shop that just don't sound good. Understand, when I say the bass didn't sound good it's just my opinion which several others agreed with about that particular bass. this bass got lost in the mix and the B string was terrible. For what it's worth, the pole pieces were exposed.
 
I assure you all that it was not a pickup or preamp problem. The bass just didn't sound good, and in fact did not play as well as all other Fodera's I've played. My friend has owned 7 or 8 Fodera's and I've owned a few and know what I'm talking about. I think Fodera makes the finest bass in the world but it's not hard for me to believe one or two leave the shop that just don't sound good. Understand, when I say the bass didn't sound good it's just my opinion which several others agreed with about that particular bass. this bass got lost in the mix and the B string was terrible. For what it's worth, the pole pieces were exposed.

I mean it's certainly possible, just strange to hear. You would think Fodera would have it pretty much down to a science by now, especially since they only use wood that they feel meets their "tone standard". I kind of know the feeling of not being entirely happy with a Fodera, but the issue was solved in the electronics department....the bass itself still played like a monster.
 
IIRC mahogany is often the most balanced body wood out of the "big four" (with alder, ash, & walnut). Neither lows, mids, nor highs are compressed or emphasized more than each other. This is why Mike Pope went for Mahogany & Ebony for his Viceroy - to give it the most neutral-sounding basis to be shaped by the movable pickup and preamp.

But this is just what I've read. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :)

That's exactly what I keep hearing about alder.
Interesting.
 
Interesting....I like that! I just heard it was one of the heaviest woods which was kind of a turn off for me but evidently that's not always the case....need to get my hands on some mahogany basses!

My experience with mahogany is primarily with Les Paul guitars. mahogany CAN be light or heavy; it simply depends on the specific tree it comes from. Les Paul guitars, which are solid mahogany bodies with a maple 'cap' can vary between the low 8 lbs. to well over 10 lbs., a variation approaching 3 pounds with the same body size/shape. As far as I know, the weight doesn't have anything to do with tone. Each piece, as with any wood, can be a better piece for tone, or not. IMHO, of course.
 
This is from a great post Jason made back in Fodera Club Part 7 on the big four body woods, which was very helpful:

"Funny, with everything I have answered here over the past couple of years, I have been asked this question several times and avoided answering each time because tone is incredibly difficult to describe with words AND there are significant variations within each species (and even within the same tree).

By way of example, when the shop was building Bass #3,000 ([Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) I got to really work alongside him and Joey to tap test every piece of wood that went into that bass. We cut up a very large piece of Honduran Mahogany (over 15" wide and 10' tall) and the difference in tone between the top piece and the bottom piece was striking. It makes sense right? The wood near the roots of a tree (which has to bear the weight of what is above it) is invariably heavier and denser than the wood closer to the crown. YES, it was all Mahogany, but there were distinct differences in tone between the 5 pieces that were cut...so much so that Joey, Vinny and I could have easily "reconstructed" the slab by tapping each piece and placing it back in the order from which it was originally cut.

Since these differences are differences of gradation AND since they also occur in both the neck and fingerboard materials, after a customer has worked with us to select the species of wood for each component part, when it comes time to actually build the bass we work to ensure that the overall selection of woods compliment each other in a way that we think is both representative and appealing.

Going back to the Bass 3000 example...since it had a Brazilian FB that happened to have incredible depth to it in the lower frequencies, Vinny chose to compliment that characteristic with a Maple neck billet that emphasized these frequencies a little less than many others from which he had to choose from and was strong in the mids and highs. It's just like cooking. When you're making your pasta sauce, if the tomatoes are a little less ripe you compensate by adding a bit of sugar. This kind of expertise and attention to detail is one of the things that you are buying when you purchase a Fodera (or, hopefully, any high-end bass).

All of this said, here are some GENERALITIES about the "big four" body woods purely IMHO...

Alder - Fairly well balanced leaning towards the warm side of the tonal spectrum. Lows, mids and highs are all present. This wood has long been associated with the "Vintage 60's" sound -- especially when paired with a Brazilian Rosewood FB!

Ash - Tremendous variation here due to the varied densities between heavy, Northern Ash and (potentially) feather light Southern Swamp Ash. Unless weight is an issue, we always prefer to build with medium density Ash. At this density, Ash is brighter sounding than Alder with excellent, percussive sounding lows and clean highs. It tends to be a bit "scooped" in the mids. This wood (especially when paired with a Maple fingerboard) is associated with the "Vintage 70's" sound.

Mahogany - On the warmer side of the spectrum. "Rich" sounding and complex...if that makes any sense. The lows, mids and highs are all there but in a different way and different proportion than in Alder...Mahogany (to me) tends to have a fuller sound that speaks very naturally in the mids.

Walnut - Percussive in a way that is similar to Ash. Also somewhat scooped in the mids. Very clean, but not in-your-face-sounding highs. Overall, to my ears, Walnut comes across as a slightly warmer, more nuanced and subtle version of Ash...if that makes any sense, LOL!

Of course the very best way to get a sense of this is to get instruments with all of the different woods under your fingers on a regular basis. At least this is what I told my wife when she asked me why I needed 10+ Monarchs!

Listening to them regularly, the differences are immediately obvious, but putting these differences into words is, shall we say, very, very humanizing!

Enjoy the weekend...

J"
 
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