Fodera Essence.

[Rayle_Trail]

needmoney sussed this gallery out a while back
Its GAStastic

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Flounder102Bass]

Do you have any idea what you're doing?

no you?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

no you?

Nah, I'm totally lost. I thought this was the Rosin forum.

 

[KJung]

Hey all. I just spoke with Martha at Fodera about these. They are going for $8,500. They are not cutting any corners. These are basses that will be built if they have the extra unpaid for parts and there will be no customization at all. They are for the people who want a Fodera now but do not want to wait. They are listing for $9,800, so it is a typical Fodera Imperial. Feel free to PM me with any other questions.
Peace,
Chris

Let me understand this They are running about 3 years behind on custom orders, but they are going to have time to build some of these to have available from 'extra parts'

I'd be pretty pissed if I was starting my third year wait and saw these start popping up for sale on the site.

 

[lennyonbass]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but there is some conversation going on here about fodera's pricing, so i wanted to throw in this short rant.
IMO, what the company is doing to their prices is borderline gouging.

i have no doubt or beef with fodera's quality or tone, etc., but $9k for a bass that, a few years ago was $5k? come on...if rent is that high, then move. please.
look, i own 3 of these basses (took years of saving, folks) and would sure like to own another (who wouldn't?), but they have effectively eliminated me as a customer completely. (of course, i am somewhat bitter about this, and maybe that's why i am posting, but read the rest and see if you don't agree.)

i called in, not too long ago, to have some "willis" ramps made for two of my basses. one block of wood was to be ebony, the other, maple.
for two blocks of wood, what was the quoted price? anyone?




$700.
un-effin-believable...it's a block of wood, fer crying out loud!

a reality check is in order, i think.
look, i love my basses, but...sheesh.

and suppose...just suppose, that i want to sell one. is it reasonable to ask and expect to get "2008 used market price" (i am guessing ~$7k) for a bass that sold new for less than $6k.
i don't think it is reasonable.

are we to believe, then, that the quality and desirability of the 2008 fodera is that much greater than one built in 2003, for example?

obviously, they can do whatever they want. i get that.
i guess i would like to see something to warrant their ginormous annual price increase. that is all.

ugh...


thanks for listening.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

You can't price gouge on something that is a 100% luxury. Based on their 2-3 year waiting list, they should actually be charging more for their basses.

$700 for two ramps is crazy though- a couple years ago they were charging $200 for one (it's more than just a block of wood though as they obviously have to radius it to match your bass). You can get those made by someone else for $100-$150.

 

[Psychicpet]

I hear they squeeze it out of Gelflings.

oh, and yay!

Yet again, another thread that's full of "no bass is worth that" blah, blah, blah

 

[Wilbyman]

You can't price gouge on something that is a 100% luxury. Based on their 2-3 year waiting list, they should actually be charging more for their basses.

$700 for two ramps is crazy though- a couple years ago they were charging $200 for one (it's more than just a block of wood though as they obviously have to radius it to match your bass). You can get those made by someone else for $100-$150.

+1. And thank God I have something which is appreciating. My stocks have been in the tank!

 

[KJung]

i don't mean to hijack the thread, but there is some conversation going on here about fodera's pricing, so i wanted to throw in this short rant.
IMO, what the company is doing to their prices is borderline gouging.

i have no doubt or beef with fodera's quality or tone, etc., but $9k for a bass that, a few years ago was $5k? come on...if rent is that high, then move. please.
look, i own 3 of these basses (took years of saving, folks) and would sure like to own another (who wouldn't?), but they have effectively eliminated me as a customer completely. (of course, i am somewhat bitter about this, and maybe that's why i am posting, but read the rest and see if you don't agree.)

i called in, not too long ago, to have some "willis" ramps made for two of my basses. one block of wood was to be ebony, the other, maple.
for two blocks of wood, what was the quoted price? anyone?




$700.
un-effin-believable...it's a block of wood, fer crying out loud!

a reality check is in order, i think.
look, i love my basses, but...sheesh.

and suppose...just suppose, that i want to sell one. is it reasonable to ask and expect to get "2008 used market price" (i am guessing ~$7k) for a bass that sold new for less than $6k.
i don't think it is reasonable.

are we to believe, then, that the quality and desirability of the 2008 fodera is that much greater than one built in 2003, for example?

obviously, they can do whatever they want. i get that.
i guess i would like to see something to warrant their ginormous annual price increase. that is all.

ugh...


thanks for listening.

Per the above posts, it's all about supply and demand. IMO, they should raise their prices significantly again. If there is such a back-order that it takes three years to get an instrument, good old economic theory says that the instrument is grossly underpriced, since so many more people want one than the luthier can supply at the current pricing level.

That being said, I surely wouldn't buy another one for that amount of money. On the other hand, the guys buying the Fodera's probably think I'm crazy for spending $4,000 on a jazz bass copy. That's what makes the world go round

 

[lennyonbass]

You can't price gouge on something that is a 100% luxury.

i get what you're saying, but i would like to get an opinion from one of the symphonic guys and see if they consider their $100k doublebass, a luxury? possibly, they do, but the point i am trying to make is this...when i bought my first fodera, i did so because of the tone and playability. i should state, at this point that i make my living playing the bass. ok. i suppose i could have done the job with a lesser instrument, but i felt it was necessary for me to have a fodera to do my job.

Based on their 2-3 year waiting list, they should actually be charging more for their basses.

I believe the "waiting list" exists *because* they charge so much. when i had my second fodera made. i ordered it...paid 1/3 of the cash...waited a year...came up with the rest of the cash...discovered that it hadn't been started yet...paid them the rest of the cash...picked it up 2 weeks later. it certainly does not take 3 years to make these instruments.

$700 for two ramps is crazy though- a couple years ago they were charging $200 for one (it's more than just a block of wood though as they obviously have to radius it to match your bass). You can get those made by someone else for $100-$150.

IMO, even $100 is excessive...my pickup covers are not radiused...i req'd no radius. i only wanted it to match the existing woods in the bass. what did i end up doing? i took a stack of business cards and taped them together between the pickups. worked fine...looked like hell...but worked fine.

again, sorry for the hijack...i don't mean to belabor the point.

 

[lennyonbass]

just to be clear...i think my foderas *are* worth it.
i also think there is *no* difference between them and the basses fodera is producing today.
i just would like to see something other than *demand*, to warrant the price increase.
i know...wish in one hand, s**t in the other.

 

[KJung]

just to be clear...i think my foderas *are* worth it.
i also think there is *no* difference between them and the basses fodera is producing today.
i just would like to see something other than *demand*, to warrant the price increase.
i know...wish in one hand, s**t in the other.

I hear what you are saying, but quite frankly, demand IS the only thing that would warrant a price increase for any product. Cost of goods, etc. means nothing. It's only what the consumer feels is the 'worth' of a product that can drive pricing. And, usually, that feeling of 'worth' has NOTHING to do with the actual cost of goods. Just check out the craze for expensive women's handbags. It's the same thing.

It's quite irrational. My guess is, it costs them LESS to actually produce a bass than it did 5 years ago (you would hope so, since that's part of running a good business).

 

[Wilbyman]

When people quit buying Foderas, the prices may come down. As long as the Europeans and Asians are buying them (whose money is worth more, increasingly so), the prices for Americans will keep going up. And up and up.

 

[Baryonyx]

I think I'm the only person around here who likes plain black headstock facings as opposed to matched woods!

 

[Dbassmon]

The comparison of acoustic string instrument prices and Fodera prices in not a really a fair comparison. String instruments cost $20k, $100k and more are most times a hundred or more years old. Time gives those instruments a sound that can not be imparted into a new instrument. The really valuable instruments are not only very old but come from luthiers that made only a few instruments. Ones that survive to this day are very rare and those luthiers are quite dead so you will not see any new ones.

As far as what Fodera charges, they should get what ever the traffic will bear. They are keeping the quality high, production low and making money doing it. We live in a capitalist society and they are profiting from a great product. I love the United States. Free enterprise!

Interesting question, why do people seem to zone in on Fodera pricing? Alembics have charging way more for much longer and you do not see the flack being directed at them. Is that accurate?

There are many other choices we can make as far as quality basses. Smith, Roscoe, Warrior, RBass, Adler, Brubaker etc. I believe those instruments to be in the same class as Fodera and cost less than half the price. Your wait time will be 4 - 6 months and you will not be playing an inferior instrument. A good Jazz bass works pretty well too and that you can have tomorrow for $1500.

Someone asked about a Fodera "Metro" type of bass, isn't that what the Empire NYC is? I believe the body and necks are Japanese made (same factory as F-Clef). I sort of got Mike Pope to come clean with that info recently. Still $4k... not cheap!

The Essence Bass from Fodera will probably sell. Also, I think the mystique of Fodera probably will still keep the 3yr wait and 5 figure price tag cue filled up with people wanting their Ying Yang Victor Wooten Model.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

i get what you're saying, but i would like to get an opinion from one of the symphonic guys and see if they consider their $100k doublebass, a luxury? possibly, they do, but the point i am trying to make is this...when i bought my first fodera, i did so because of the tone and playability. i should state, at this point that i make my living playing the bass. ok. i suppose i could have done the job with a lesser instrument, but i felt it was necessary for me to have a fodera to do my job.

I may feel it's necessary for me to have my meals made from the Northern Indian restaurant near my house in order for me to be at my best, but I can't complain when they charge me $20 a meal

I believe the "waiting list" exists *because* they charge so much. when i had my second fodera made. i ordered it...paid 1/3 of the cash...waited a year...came up with the rest of the cash...discovered that it hadn't been started yet...paid them the rest of the cash...picked it up 2 weeks later. it certainly does not take 3 years to make these instruments.

That's actually not at all why any luthier I've spoken to has a waiting list. The only reason people can pay over time is because there's going to be a wait before their bass is started because they're completing all the orders previous to yours. It doesn't even make sense really- do you think if they had a lower price and people were able to pay the entirety of the cost at order time, people would be receiving their basses in a month or two? I can't think of any custom order that works that way. Rob Elrick has one of the shortest wait times of any big name luthiers, and his is still 4-5 months. If Fodera charged less, the wait time for their basses would be far, far longer as more people could afford them.

 

[KJung]

Interesting question, why do people seem to zone in on Fodera pricing? Alembics have charging way more for much longer and you do not see the flack being directed at them. Is that accurate?

My feeling is that Alembic's have become more of a collectors bass, and that they aren't really that relevant any more. Not many players using them at this point. It seems more of a hobbiest bass (guys with day gigs, a lot of money, and a love for either the Dead or just beautiful, fancy wood). Also, Alembic does have models that you see in Guitar Center, etc. for much lower prices (so if you really want one, there is probably a model you can afford).

The Fodera line is extremely 'relevant', in that a pretty high percentage of the 'bassist's bassists' are using them.. Anthony, Victor, Lincoln, Richard, Tommy, etc.... you don't even need to use their last names!

Hence, more real players (and hence, more guys that can't quite afford these massive prices) actually want these basses.

IMO there! No offense to the Alembic guys.

 

[thepontif]

$350.00 for a ramp doesn't seem out of hand to me. $100.00 per hour isn't at all extreme for highly skilled labor. A couple hours labor including mounting, adjusting, on and off the bass a couple times, strings on and off a couple times...yada yada. Then profit and materials. And you pay something for having someone with that skill level work on your bass. There's a level of reassurance that comes with having the creator of the instrument do the maintenance/modifications which is worth something to some people. No doubt there are cheaper solutions and you might not NEED that level of skill to get that job done. Think of this...Anthony Jackson doesn't charge less for a session if the music requires less of his skills. You pay the big bucks for him and you benefit from his skills in the sense that he may understand the music better than another guy might. I'd think it crass to accuse him of gouging just because he's charging a lot to be what no one else can be...Anthony Jackson. Even if it's backing up a singer on a cover of "My Girl", he's going to bring something no one else will. If another one of the brilliant NYC bassists will do it for half the money, you know you won't be disappointed...but it's not Anthony. If you need it...pay it. If you can't afford it, it's not Anthony's fault.

But Fodera doesn't gouge. They're not about that. Joey always feels very uncomfortable when he has to raise a price. But things are getting more and more expensive in this country. Don't confuse a failing economy with a greedy bass company. Hell, I just paid $13.00 for a gallon of milk and a pound of ground beef at Food Lion today. And that's here in Maryland...forget about NYC! Honestly, we're about screwed here.

On another note, I don't know what you mean by "sort of came clean" about the origin of the NYC basses. I'm not sure what wasn't ever clean. They are Fodera designed basses, the parts for which are built in a factory and the wood comes from Fodera's shop...selected by Vinny himself. I don't know first hand what factory they're built in, nor do I know what factory the F-clef basses are made in. I know the Fclef basses are NOT a Fodera design and the NYC basses are. I also know that Fodera is involved in the F-Clef basses. As I understand it they have sort of a distributorship. I'm not entirely clear what the mechanics are. I know they don't build them there, though. There's no time for that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

People who think Foderas are "worth it" will be on the waiting list. The waiting list is because, for whatever reason (most likely they build their basses ) they have high enough demand that they can't produce them fast enough to keep up. That's a good problem to have these days.

It looks like the Essence is a "spec" bass, meaning, like a spec house, it's built for no one in particular. It makes sense to do this because if you run production in batches, throw a few of these in and you have something available for stores and customers that didn't have to be custom ordered and as such isn't on the main wait list.

As far as the price, I have no doubt they took the usual things into consideration when they came up with it. Will it sell? We'll see. Should they move to a less expensive location in order to lower prices? I don't see why, if they're happy and prosperous where they are. Besides, they could move and charge the same thing and then people would complain about that. Wouldn't they?


Is their cost to produce relevant? Nope... at least it shouldn't be, unless you're their accountant. Whether it's 10% or 1000% profit should not be the concern of the buyer, the cost of the instrument is what it is. After all, if their margins are super tight, would you volunteer to pay more to help them out?


Sure you would. We're all in this together

Fodera is not a utility. It's not an HMO. It's not fuel for a vehicle. People may want to step back and look at what they look like, complaining about pricing on something they merely want, not need but are simply unwilling to pay for. It's not pretty.


In talking to Kevin Brubaker, I know he's trying to do more spec instruments because he has dealers and customers calling, willing to buy something, anything that is ready. In that light, Fodera's on the right track. If they can get the money they're asking it's only because someone (most likely not the complainers) was willing to foot the bill.

I have my Fodera and I have no complaints. Not even about what new ones go for. Because I know that everything is not for me.

 

[Dbassmon]

On another note, I don't know what you mean by "sort of came clean" about the origin of the NYC basses.

What I meant was, like the Metro version of the Sad basses, the NYC Empire carries the Fodera name but is manufactured, at least in part, in the East.
By coming clean, I meant that information was posted by the Pontif in a previous post in a different thread. In other words revealing some knowledge he had with regards to the origin of the NYCs. Information which is not made available by the Fodera company on their web site or on any literature accompanying the NYC Empire Bass.

I own one and wanted to know. Mike was kind enough to share what he knew.

The "sort of" part refers to the fact that the Pontif had no further knowledge on who, where, when etc. I assume, wrong or right, because of the Pontifs relationship with Fodera that he may well be privy to some info the rest of us low-note-playing, posting-on-the-web dudes, don't have access to. He may or may not feel comfortable sharing everything. Is that a fair assumption?

BTW, I don't believe this fact matters one iota. It's a very well made bass, in line with the quality one would expect from Fodera. If the parts were machined in Brooklyn, would they be any better.... No! I get it.

As far as the design part, I give most of that credit to Leo Fender. It's bassically a Jazz bass (a very modern sounding Jazz Bass) with Fodera's tweaks. IMO of course.