Fonkiest Filter

[iTzPrime]

I'm just getting into bass playing and have a few pedals in mind - first ones likely compressor, HPF (my amp is really boomy) and finally something to give me some funky sounds to play with. Thanks for all of the ideas in this thread - I've been following along closely and reviewing each option though video reviews.

Can anyone point out the main differences in sound between Analog and Digital envelope filters? The two I have my eye on are the MXR M82 and the S.A. Spectrum, the latter being much more versatile since it is digital. I suspect that if I go with the M82 I'll be looking for other pedals to add fairly soon after (such as an octaver). But anyway what are the benefits to sticking with analog circuits? Is it just one of those personal preferences type of things?

Sound wise analogue and digital are pretty much equal in my opinion. My Iron Ether Xerograph Deluxe is a digital pedal and it sounds amazing. The difference is more in usage. On all analogue pedals and some digital pedals everything can be adjusted via knobs, wheras something like the new Source Audio or TC Electronic Toneprint Pedals need a phone or Notebook to take full advantage of the pedals capabilites.
I think it is important to try it. Buy an analogue and digital pedal used and see what you like better in terms of usability.

 

[Johno Dunn]

I like SA stuff, still have a Manta. It seems like there isn’t much point to getting the Spectrum instead of the C4, is there? I get the feeling like the C4 is a superset of the Spectrum. Or is that an incorrect impression on my part?

If all you want is Filters, octaves, and dirt (and any combo of these) and easier access to parameters (knobs), then the Spectrum is the way to go. The C4 adds synth voice, an arpeggiator. And the knobs on the pedal itself are more Filter friendly on the Spectrum. I have yet to build my own preset, I just download the cool kids presets and adjust them to my playing!

Could you explain how the knobs work when using alternate controls and presets? For example, if you set the Depth at 3 o'clock position, then switch to Alt, then set the Mix to 9 o'clock, what happens if you go back to normal controls (switch Alt off)? Does depth stay at the 3 o'clock setting even through the knob is at 9 o'clock? Or does Depth stay where it was set until you move the knob again? I did look at the manual and didn't find that info.

Do the presets override all of the knob settings? And you can adjust from there by moving the knobs again?

Looking through the manual, I think this guy might be way to complicated for a beginner (like myself). I think I would get lost with all the possibilities. The reviews and demos I've seen look really good, but they're done by people who really know what they are doing.

You get the knobs set, and then save your settings on the pedal. Presets do override the physical knob settings. I would recommend with either the C4 or the Spectrum, that you get a midi pedal of some sort to scroll through presets.

 

[Nighttrain1127]

To be clear you can switch the pedal easily to the WYSIWYG setting and then the knob position overrides the Preset . And if you need to switch to the second set of Knob functions when you switch it back to the first tier the settings on the second tier stay where you left them. But as said before if you find settings you like then just save them to the pedal and when you come back as long as you are still in the original knob mode it will be where you saved the settings at. I might not be explaining well and if you don't understand It is probably me. This is a relatively simple pedal and there are so many presets you really don't need to make your own presets. I had an Iron Ether Xerograph and It sounded great but was much more difficult to get the sounds I wanted with. Not knocking the pedal at all it is a fantastic build and top quality I just don't know enough about how filters do what they do to get it right .

 

[skycruiser]

To be clear you can switch the pedal easily to the WYSIWYG setting and then the knob position overrides the Preset . And if you need to switch to the second set of Knob functions when you switch it back to the first tier the settings on the second tier stay where you left them. But as said before if you find settings you like then just save them to the pedal and when you come back as long as you are still in the original knob mode it will be where you saved the settings at. I might not be explaining well and if you don't understand It is probably me. This is a relatively simple pedal and there are so many presets you really don't need to make your own presets. I had an Iron Ether Xerograph and It sounded great but was much more difficult to get the sounds I wanted with. Not knocking the pedal at all it is a fantastic build and top quality I just don't know enough about how filters do what they do to get it right .

Thanks for the details. Here's what's still confusing me - I'll try to make it clear.

• Let's say you set all the normal mode knobs to a setting of 1 (I know they don't have numbers, but pretend they do).
• Then you switch to ALT and set all the knobs to 5.
• A few seconds later, the knobs return to their normal functions (my reading of the manual is this is automatic after you don't adjust the knobs for 5 seconds)
  
• When it goes back to normal the knobs are all still pointing to 5, but now they apply to the normal settings.

Do the normal settings all change to 5 (since the knobs are pointing at 5), or do they keep the values 1 they had before switching to ALT?

If they retain their settings of 1, then it is confusing because the values don't match the knob positions.
If they switch to 5, then it is confusing because you have to move them all back to the settings you want.

 

[4Mal]

i'm digging the filters and octave and dirt in the C4. I create my patches with the knobs at noon. Make minor adjustments from there. I. meed to go beyond the minor, then I am likely to adjust the patch. You will spend quite some time tweaking existing or creating new patches. I'll probably add an aftershock soon and then try a Spectrum.

The Source Audio ecosystem is kind of addicting...

 

[Nighttrain1127]

From using the C4 and Spectrum here is my take . Where you set the knobs in either tier is where they stay until either you change them or you switch Presets. They do not default after a set time. Ok I just re-read your post and what you are referring to is if you make no adjustments for a time in the second set of controls it reverts back to the original functions but does not change any settings

 

[J Posega]

Thanks for the details. Here's what's still confusing me - I'll try to make it clear.

• Let's say you set all the normal mode knobs to a setting of 1 (I know they don't have numbers, but pretend they do).
• Then you switch to ALT and set all the knobs to 5.
• A few seconds later, the knobs return to their normal functions (my reading of the manual is this is automatic after you don't adjust the knobs for 5 seconds)
  
• When it goes back to normal the knobs are all still pointing to 5, but now they apply to the normal settings.

Do the normal settings all change to 5 (since the knobs are pointing at 5), or do they keep the values 1 they had before switching to ALT?

If they retain their settings of 1, then it is confusing because the values don't match the knob positions.
If they switch to 5, then it is confusing because you have to move them all back to the settings you want.

They retain their settings.

In audio engineering we have a saying, “Mix with your ears, not with your eyes.” The same goes for using your gear. The SA system is intuitive once you spend a little time with it. Everyone is a beginner at some point.

 

[skycruiser]

They retain their settings.

In audio engineering we have a saying, “Mix with your ears, not with your eyes.” The same goes for using your gear. The SA system is intuitive once you spend a little time with it. Everyone is a beginner at some point.

Thanks - good advice. The deal is I'm already overwhelmed with the 10 or so knobs on my amp and bass. Can't imagine 8 more knobs on one pedal! (then imagine a full pedal board - yikes). It's like trying to solve a 50 dimensional function.

 

[henryjurstin13]

Thanks - good advice. The deal is I'm already overwhelmed with the 10 or so knobs on my amp and bass. Can't imagine 8 more knobs on one pedal! (then imagine a full pedal board - yikes). It's like trying to solve a 50 dimensional function.

On one hand -- I'd say steer yourself clear of this anxiety & go for a simpler rig/pedal.

On the other hand -- keep it easy by staying on task with a single piece of gear at a time. Technically I guess you start with bass AND amp first, so that's two... but, after that - only focus on one pedal (set of knobs) at once.

 

[BurningSkies]

Could you explain how the knobs work when using alternate controls and presets? For example, if you set the Depth at 3 o'clock position, then switch to Alt, then set the Mix to 9 o'clock, what happens if you go back to normal controls (switch Alt off)? Does depth stay at the 3 o'clock setting even through the knob is at 9 o'clock? Or does Depth stay where it was set until you move the knob again? I did look at the manual and didn't find that info.

Do the presets override all of the knob settings? And you can adjust from there by moving the knobs again?

Looking through the manual, I think this guy might be way to complicated for a beginner (like myself). I think I would get lost with all the possibilities. The reviews and demos I've seen look really good, but they're done by people who really know what they are doing.

If you're using the alt control, it leaves the original control where it was before you switched.

 

[skycruiser]

If you're using the alt control, it leaves the original control where it was before you switched.

Thanks, I understand the response but I think I'll have to try it to fully understand. Based on what you say, it means when you switch back from alt to normal, the knob positions then may not represent the actual value of the normal controls (because if you turned the knobs to set the alt parameters, the knobs will still be in those positions).

Dual use knobs is really confusing and I think a bad idea, especially for people like me who want to look at the knobs to see how things are set. It might be better to have a knob that can rotate forever in any direction and no position indicator, then some sort of front panel display showing the current positions of all 8 parameters. I'm sure lots of controllers have that sort of setup - one knob/control and other buttons let you pick which parameter to adjust. It's all digital so knobs are just for show anyway.

Probably best for me to go with an analog pedal for my first foray into this stuff...

 

[BurningSkies]

Thanks, I understand the response but I think I'll have to try it to fully understand. Based on what you say, it means when you switch back from alt to normal, the knob positions then may not represent the actual value of the normal controls (because if you turned the knobs to set the alt parameters, the knobs will still be in those positions).

Dual use knobs is really confusing and I think a bad idea, especially for people like me who want to look at the knobs to see how things are set. It might be better to have a knob that can rotate forever in any direction and no position indicator, then some sort of front panel display showing the current positions of all 8 parameters. I'm sure lots of controllers have that sort of setup - one knob/control and other buttons let you pick which parameter to adjust. It's all digital so knobs are just for show anyway.

Probably best for me to go with an analog pedal for my first foray into this stuff...

The pedal has a few settings, one will allow "WYSIWYG" aka where the knobs point is what they do.

From the manual:

Three Different Preset Modes
Connecting the Spectrum to the Neuro Desktop or Neuro Mobile App (See the Neuro Section for more info) allows you to select between three different Preset Modes: Preset (default mode), Control, and WYSIWYG (“What You See Is What You Get”). To select which mode your Spectrum operates under, go the Spectrum’s Hardware Options Menu (the gear icon in the Connection section) and use the Preset Mode menu. Each mode is universal and applies to all six presets available in the green and red preset banks.

Preset Mode engages a pre-programmed preset. So upon the initial engagement of a preset the knob parameters will instantly jump to their saved values, regardless of the physical position of the knobs. Upon making a knob adjustment, the center LED will start to blink, indicating that edits have been made. After making an adjustment you can save the new settings by pressing and holding the footswitch until the center LED stops blinking (around five seconds).

In Control Mode each preset engages with a pre-programmed preset, meaning the physical positions of the knobs do not affect the sound of the preset. It is, however, possible to reach down and make knob adjustments on the fly. If, after making a knob adjustment, the pedal is bypassed then reengaged without moving the toggle switch, the sound will continue to reflect the new knob positions. If the toggle switch is moved (regardless of whether the effect is engaged or engaged), the pedal will revert to the parameter settings of the saved preset.

In WYSIWYG Mode the Spectrum functions much like a traditional effects pedal. It is a “What You See Is What You Get” experience, meaning that the current physical positions of the knobs will indicate the settings of the primary knob functions. Note: If you move the toggle switch to a new position all the primary knob parameters will maintain the settings of the physical knob positions, but the Alternate knob functions will revert to their default settings.

 

[BurningSkies]

It amounts to how you're going to use the pedal. If you're going to load 6 presets on board and use it like a traditional filter, then you'd pick one of the two later modes, depending on what works best for you.

I use the preset mode on my C4 which functions the same way, but I'm MIDI triggering stuff and then using the surface controls to do fine-tune-and-save. I mostly don't look at how the controls are set.

 

[jbybj]

I use both envelope filters and phasers, but if I had a dedicated envelope-controlled phase shifter I don’t think I’d ever turn it off! Who makes one?

In addition to the fine suggestions already offered, I would consider the Keeley Bubbletron. Lots of cool in that device.

 

[J Posega]

Thanks, I understand the response but I think I'll have to try it to fully understand. Based on what you say, it means when you switch back from alt to normal, the knob positions then may not represent the actual value of the normal controls (because if you turned the knobs to set the alt parameters, the knobs will still be in those positions).

Dual use knobs is really confusing and I think a bad idea, especially for people like me who want to look at the knobs to see how things are set. It might be better to have a knob that can rotate forever in any direction and no position indicator, then some sort of front panel display showing the current positions of all 8 parameters. I'm sure lots of controllers have that sort of setup - one knob/control and other buttons let you pick which parameter to adjust. It's all digital so knobs are just for show anyway.

Probably best for me to go with an analog pedal for my first foray into this stuff...

Source Audio’s sales numbers and popularity would disagree with you, as nearly all their pedals have had dual function knobs

 

[skycruiser]

I'm just a little too simple minded when it comes to my equipment I guess. Even the WYSIWYG is only half-way WYSIWYG, and you still have to put the knobs back in the right place after you adjust the Alt settings. I get that these things are popular and sell a lot because a lot of people love using apps and computers for everything. At least at this point in my life, I'm happy for my bass playing to have nothing to do with apps!

 

[BitMoBass]

@skycruiser -- gotta agree with you about dual use knobs -- for me, dual function controls are a super PIA, especially in live situations. The simple, grab a dedicated knob and twist on the not outrageously priced, pretty cool sounding MXR M82 has been the way to go for my situation. Let's say you have a smoking sound dialed in, the club starts filling up, and you just need a bit more edge to it ......turn up the Q a bit and maybe back down on the sensitivity and dig in -- once you know the controls, you don't even have to look at the box if it's within easy reach; in my case, the efx loop on top of the amp. I also like the M82's ability to blend the gimmick sound with the dry sound which is very handy when it comes to making a quick on the fly sound tweak. .....but as with most things electrological: YMMV

 

[BurningSkies]

@skycruiser -- gotta agree with you about dual use knobs -- for me, dual function controls are a super PIA, especially in live situations. The simple, grab a dedicated knob and twist on the not outrageously priced, pretty cool sounding MXR M82 has been the way to go for my situation. Let's say you have a smoking sound dialed in, the club starts filling up, and you just need a bit more edge to it ......turn up the Q a bit and maybe back down on the sensitivity and dig in -- once you know the controls, you don't even have to look at the box if it's within easy reach; in my case, the efx loop on top of the amp. I also like the M82's ability to blend the gimmick sound with the dry sound which is very handy when it comes to making a quick on the fly sound tweak. .....but as with most things electrological: YMMV

The other cool thing about the source audio knobs is that many of them are assignable. So if you don't like your options on the functions you can pick what you want some of the knobs to be.

 

[J Posega]

The other cool thing about the source audio knobs is that many of them are assignable. So if you don't like your options on the functions you can pick what you want some of the knobs to be.

I’m too lazy to scroll back, and maybe it was another thread, but someone mentioned that they program all their patches so that the knobs are all set at noon, meaning adjustments can be done super quick on the fly. I like that idea.

 

[BurningSkies]

I’m too lazy to scroll back, and maybe it was another thread, but someone mentioned that they program all their patches so that the knobs are all set at noon, meaning adjustments can be done super quick on the fly. I like that idea.

I suppose that's do-able but you'd have to ride a bunch of gain stages to make it work.

My goal is to have the least amount of adjustment, so I've pretty much dialed all the envelope filters in well ahead of time. Things like sensitivity remain from gig to gig since my setup is consistent.