For you SX haters!!!

[selowitch]

The price went up. A new MIM Fender P is now $620.

Jim

FWIW, that's the price if you order it online. You can fairly easily bargain it down at place like GC. My MIM Jazz that I ordered Jan. 31st (just ahead of the price change) had a street price of $650 and they let me have it for $550; the P would have been even less.

You know what I'll willingly concede? That Rondo was the best $109.00 bass I ever played. It's worth quite a bit more than what I paid for it. But it's just not enough for me to feel comfortable with musically. Maybe that's because I'm a lousy musician, maybe it's because I have bad technique. But maybe also it's because SXes are overhyped. While they are pretty good cheap imports, they just aren't as good as everybody here seems to think.

Yes, you can put a Nordstrand pickup in an SX. You can put an ABM bridge on it. You can replace all the pots, tuners, recut a new nut, defret and epoxy the goddamned fingerboard. Put in a new pickguard (but have to dremel it because the specs are nonstandard. But by the time you've done all that, are you really that much better off than just getting a Fender?

 

[basshead5]

Having spent the last few nights skimming over the thousands and thousands (and thousands) of posts regarding SX's, I just placed an order for one tonight. My hopes are high, but I am a realist. We'll see...

(I ordered the 5 string Jazz copy with the Sunburst finish)
_____________________
Soon to be (hopefully) SX Club Member in good standing

 

[selowitch]

I can definitely see how somebody who always wanted a bass or guitar in X color or with X body shape but doesn't want to shell out a bunch of money would order an SX on a whim and enjoy having it in their collection. But to have that same SX replace a Fender, Sadowsky, Nordy, or Lakland as a cat's main gigging bass is nothing short of insane, mods or no mods.

 

[Justice]

Show me a typical modded SX on which someone spent $400 and I show you a Squier I bought for $300 that, on average, plays, sounds and feels better. One bassist's opinion is all this is. But I would like people to take seriously my contention that SXes are vastly overrated here at TB. Big time.

I could name half a dozen bass brands that are raved about here on TB that I think are overated, over hyped and overpriced. But unlike the anti-SX crowd, i just skip the threads about those basses. Its the right thing to do.

now look at the bass on the left.

SX P bass - $119
BadAssII bridge, bought on clearance - $40
SD Quarter Pounders - $50
CTS pots - $10 (only replaced because the volume pot failed after 3 years)
String-through ferrules $10
paying my repair guy to convert the body the string through and install/setup the BA bridge $30

Total invested - $260 - Still less than a top of the line Squire and will give Fenders of any level a run for their money.

Am I claiming that it is BETTER than an MIA Fender, no. Does it play as well as an MIA Fender? Well, it plays better than a lot of ones I have played, except for Gene Kurtz's 1950 something P bass, that thing was like BUTTER!

Here is the funny thing, I (like a lot of others here) have never seen anyone claim that an SX bass is better than an MIA Fender. And NOBODY who has ever claimed that someone said that, has been able to back it up (show a link where someone said the SX was better).

Hell, i'm still trying to figure out why people think the bridge on a MIM Fender is better than the stock SX bridge, I compared mine side by side and the bridge on my new SX P/J is actually a bit thicker than the one on my MIM P bass. And the MIM bridge is practically indistinguishable from the stock bridge on my SX jazz. If they were sitting side by side on a counter, it would be nearly impossible to tell them apart.

Oh, and the P and the J in the pic are both in regular rotation as my gigging basses. I'm sure the PJ will find a spot as well.

 

[savit260]

Certainly fine for a beginner, for someone seek a cheap mod platform, or for a distant backup instrument. But those folks who think an SX belongs as your main gigging bass are probably kidding themselves.

Do you really believe I'm kidding myself? I've owned Fenders from the 60's through current production. Played cart loads of Precisions from nearly every era. Own what most would consider a "Holy Grail" version from 1964. Been playing P basses for close to 30 years. Do you really think that I would be out there gigging an SX if they sucked or it didn't sound and play as good as (actually the SX sounds and plays better than my Fenders due to the high quality fret job, and Jason Lollar Pickup) my American Standard? I use it because it's a great bass. Plain and simple.

That said, on average, a Squier is only marginally more expensive and will be of much more consistent quality than an SX, especially the Vintage Modified or Classic Vibe series. Do yourself a favor, prospective bass buyer: Get yourself the beautiful 60s Classic Vibe P-Bass in Sonic Blue or the Article White 60s Classic Vibe J-Bass for just a few dollars more and skip all the expensive modding. You can even sometimes get away without filing the frets.

The Squiers cost 2 1/2 to 3 times more than the SX. $109 SX vs. $249 VM vs. $299.
You can chose to believe a stock Squier VM or CV will smoke my personal SX, but I can assure you, that's not the case. The Squiers are a good value though, and a solid bass for the money. The SX is a better value IMO , and certainly better for my needs. The Duncan Designed ( ie. licence built copy) Squier p/u is a decent pickup, but it's really nothing special (IMO) I'll give you that the CV's have a nicer bridge, but an equivilent upgrade bridge for the SX is only going to cost about $20. That leaves a pile of money left over for a world class pickup and pots upgrade if you feel that's even necissary on an SX.


Again, I'm sure you must think I'm a fool (Emporor with no cloths here) but you'll notice if you look closely at the pic, that there is an American Standard Fender on the stand in back as the backup. If the SX were substandard in any way, believe me.. I'd be playing the Fender instead.

 

[Rooster009]

I have basses ranging from $3500 dollars to $100. It's funny, I put the same pickups in all my Fenders and Fender clones and they all sound the same in my hands to my ears. Yes American and some Japanese Fenders are a little better in the finishing aspect. Seriously though, $1000 worth? I'm not Fender bashing because I own some choice Fender gear, but I absolutely hate when someone comes on TB and say's That they have the oppinion to end all oppinions. I'm a gigging BaSs PlAyEr who has the luxury of using a broad range of gear. I happen to choose to use my SX basses alot more than my Fenders. All the BS and hype aside, SX basses are very capable of being a main gigging bass. This thread reminds me of a joke. It starts out, So a mediocre bass player walks in to an audition with a sadowsky in his hand.

 

[selowitch]

Do you really believe I'm kidding myself? I've owned Fenders from the 60's through current production. Played cart loads of Precisions from nearly every era. Own what most would consider a "Holy Grail" version from 1964. Been playing P basses for close to 30 years. Do you really think that I would be out there gigging an SX if they sucked or it didn't sound and play as good as (actually the SX sounds and plays better than my Fenders due to the high quality fret job, and Jason Lollar Pickup) my American Standard? I use it because it's a great bass. Plain and simple.

You make a compelling point here. Can I ask you a question, though? Is it possible that you're experiencing a degree of Fender-fatigue? That familiarity has bred a kind of contempt, and that's why you've fallen in with this idea that the SX is equivalent, all things being equal?

Listen folks, I have no axe to grind here *rimshot*. I have no dog in this fight. I just want to question the idea that the SX at a hundred-some dollars is worth the investment when it would otherwise get you a fifth of the way to a new Fender. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

I'm also willing to believe that a player of your experience and presumed talent (I'm not familiar with your work but I'd like to be) probably could make a cheap $10 ukelele sound great, and maybe there's a similar effect going on with your SX. It's not as good as your Fender, but you are able to make it so through your playing. That's a testament to you, not the SX.

I don't think the current crop of MIA instruments is worth twice or more than the current MIM. The MIAs are overpriced, plain and simple.

Oh, and there's another important factor to consider: When your SX needs repair, what recourse do you have other than to send it back to Rondo? Will anybody do warranty repairs? I doubt it. So you will pay out of pocket for any repairs you need, am I right? This isn't the case with a Squier or Fender.

 

[savit260]

I can definitely see how somebody who always wanted a bass or guitar in X color or with X body shape but doesn't want to shell out a bunch of money would order an SX on a whim and enjoy having it in their collection. But to have that same SX replace a Fender, Sadowsky, Nordy, or Lakland as a cat's main gigging bass is nothing short of insane, mods or no mods.

Fortunatly, I have pretty thick skin, so I can let the "insane" comment slide.

How about filling in your profile so we at least have some clue as to whom were debating with ?

 

[Justice]

Listen folks, I have no axe to grind here *rimshot*. I have no dog in this fight. I just want to question the idea that the SX at a hundred-some dollars is worth the investment when it would otherwise get you a fifth of the way to a new Fender. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

Well, its not that its an unreasonable question. It's just that it has been asked and answered over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, again...

 

[savit260]

You make a compelling point here. Can I ask you a question, though? Is it possible that you're experiencing a degree of Fender-fatigue? That familiarity has bred a kind of contempt, and that's why you've fallen in with this idea that the SX is equivalent, all things being equal?

No Fender fatigue here. I honestly think the new American Standards are the best products Fender has put out in years. As a life long Fender player ( I currently have two Fender Precisions 2008 and 1964 as well as a few Fender guitars and I've owned a pile more over the years) I have nothing but love for the "good ones". I was impressed enough with what Fender was doing with the AS line, to go out and support a company that is dear to my heart by purchasing one.

If you noticed in my earlier posts in this thread, there are show shots of me playing both of my Fenders.

I originaly bought the SX as a backup to my 64 Precision. After a while it became apparent, after a few tweaks that the SX gave up little in sound, and the playablity was about the same. When I decided that the SX would move to no.1 workhorse, it got a fantastic fret job from a local luthier I know. Playability now exceeds both the Fenders in the stable, and the Lollar pickup (designed to replicate an early/mid 60's P) sounds very very close to the 64 which will always be the "yardstick" by which I measure all basses.

Construction wise, the SX is VERY similiar , if not somewhat better than a good 70's Fender.(Yes, I've owned a few over the years, and played many more) Yeah, the hardware isn't quite up to that standard, but that's an easy fix, and the Stock tuners are as realiable as anything I've ever used. No need to change anything there.


The new MIM line is quite good, but it's now in the $600 league, and the hardware and fretwork isn't as good as what's on/in my SX, which has a total price tag of SUBSTANTIALY less.

 

[allexcosta]

Ok kids! It's that time of the day again...

 

[bassrique]

With a mod here and there, a SX will beat a stock Squier or MIM, and for less money. It's that simple.

 

[selowitch]

No Fender fatigue here. I honestly think the new American Standards are the best products Fender has put out in years. As a life long Fender player ( I currently have two Fender Precisions 2008 and 1964 as well as a few Fender guitars and I've owned a pile more over the years) I have nothing but love for the "good ones". I was impressed enough with what Fender was doing with the AS line, to go out and support a company that is dear to my heart by purchasing one.

If you noticed in my earlier posts in this thread, there are show shots of me playing both of my Fenders.

I originaly bought the SX as a backup to my 64 Precision. After a while it became apparent, after a few tweaks that the SX gave up little in sound, and the playablity was about the same. When I decided that the SX would move to no.1 workhorse, it got a fantastic fret job from a local luthier I know. Playability now exceeds both the Fenders in the stable, and the Lollar pickup (designed to replicate an early/mid 60's P) sounds very very close to the 64 which will always be the "yardstick" by which I measure all basses.

Construction wise, the SX is VERY similiar , if not somewhat better than a good 70's Fender.(Yes, I've owned a few over the years, and played many more) Yeah, the hardware isn't quite up to that standard, but that's an easy fix, and the Stock tuners are as realiable as anything I've ever used. No need to change anything there.


The new MIM line is quite good, but it's now in the $600 league, and the hardware and fretwork isn't as good as what's on/in my SX, which has a total price tag of SUBSTANTIALY less.

OK, you got me. I'll go order an SX now. Seriously. I know when I'm licked. No sarcasm. I'll post pics.

As for my profile, I'll fill it in the next time I do something musically that's worth a damn. My glory days, such as they were, happened long ago. I had a very successful band in high school, mostly due to the talent of guys other than myself. I was the bassist along for the ride. I still love playing, though, and I remain extremely passionate about music. So that's why I'm on TB. Whom are you dealing with? No one of consequence.

 

[bassrique]

Now that we've rapped that up, I'm posting the hypnotized cupcake dog:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[dave120]

And BTW, I think it's not fair to characterize my critique as an "insult," especially since I feel I've given SXes their due. They've made a positive contribution to the marketplace. For cheap, low-value instruments, they are a good buy. I also think your ad hominem attack on me as "ignorant" is plainly false. Please don't take this personally. We're talking about inanimate objects here, not people.

While your choice of words is less abrasive than a lot, it still remains that you see these things as "substandard" and refuse to accept the idea that they might be as good as a MIM Fender or Squier is, or that some people might just prefer them even though they cost 1/4 as much.

Let me ask you this, if I stripped down an SX body to bare wood, and the same to a Fender, could you tell me which one is which? How about in a blind sound test? The fact is, when given these tests most Fender purists fail it. From the several examples I've seen, SX's use less pieces of wood (the 2 i've stripped down have been 3 piece alder) and the MIM Fender was 4. Isn't less supposed to be better? Isn't that why 2 piece MIA basses are so good? Squier isn't even made from alder or ash. There's nothing wrong with basswood though, the sound of my Fender J Special is great.

Your point about why would someone waste time with a $120 bass instead of getting 1/5 towards a Fender is what's questionable. If people are able to sit here directly comparing the two, why would I want to spend 5x as much for something barely, if at all, better? I've been through this argument with myself more times than I can count trying to convince myself that my SX's CAN'T be as good as my Fenders. I don't have lemons for Fenders either. I've turned quite a few basses before ending up with the ones I have. The bottom line is, after getting a fret job and setup, for a little over $300 my SX J will kick the tail off any MIM J bass you ever give me that hasn't had the same work done to it. MIM Fenders and any model Squier isn't amazing in the pickup or hardware department either. There's nothing about SX construction materials that make them substandard, unless a MIM Fender is substandard as well. You can replace every piece of hardware on the thing for under $50, I do that on my Fender too, same for electronics and pickups. My '85 Fender J Special is the only Fender I've ever left completely stock, probably because it already has the look and sound I want from it, but it's MIJ in the 80s which most of them are said to be pretty good.

Tell me what it is about a Fender bass that an SX can't achieve with a fret job (which would likely make it MORE playable than the average MIM Fender) and a few choice hardware upgrades?

 

[Rooster009]

You make a compelling point here. Can I ask you a question, though? Is it possible that
you're experiencing a degree of Fender-fatigue? That familiarity has bred a kind of contempt, and that's why you've fallen in with this idea that the SX is equivalent, all things being equal?

Listen folks, I have no axe to grind here *rimshot*. I have no dog in this fight. I just want to question the idea that the SX at a hundred-some dollars is worth the investment when it would otherwise get you a fifth of the way to a new Fender. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

I'm also willing to believe that a player of your experience and presumed talent (I'm not familiar with your work but I'd like to be) probably could make a cheap $10 ukelele sound great, and maybe there's a similar effect going on with your SX. It's not as good as your Fender, but you are able to make it so through your playing. That's a testament to you, not the SX.

I don't think the current crop of MIA instruments is worth twice or more than the current MIM. The MIAs are overpriced, plain and simple.

Oh, and there's another important factor to consider: When your SX needs repair, what recourse do you have other than to send it back to Rondo? Will anybody do warranty repairs? I doubt it. So you will pay out of pocket for any repairs you need, am I right? This isn't the case with a Squier or Fender.

So why again is a Fender worth $1000 more than a SX?

 

[ErebusBass]

OK, you got me. I'll go order an SX now. Seriously. I know when I'm licked. No sarcasm. I'll post pics.

As for my profile, I'll fill it in the next time I do something musically that's worth a damn. My glory days, such as they were, happened long ago. I had a very successful band in high school, mostly due to the talent of guys other than myself. I was the bassist along for the ride. I still love playing, though, and I remain extremely passionate about music. So that's why I'm on TB. Whom are you dealing with? No one of consequence.

If you're serious, put some EMG selects in it. They cost ~$50 w/pots, wires, and a jack. I put some in mine and it beats the pants off of every bass I currently or have previously owned in terms of sound. Total cost: $200 with everything shipped to my door including a gig bag, and an hour of my time to gut/rewire the bass.

Beats the pants off of any Fender I've ever played.

 

[savit260]

Oh, and there's another important factor to consider: When your SX needs repair, what recourse do you have other than to send it back to Rondo? Will anybody do warranty repairs? I doubt it. So you will pay out of pocket for any repairs you need, am I right? This isn't the case with a Squier or Fender.

Squiers Warranty is one year.

Invalid Link Removed

Fender has a limitied lifetime Warrenty , at least on the American stuff, but you're paying substantialy more for something you'll likely never need. If my $109 SX failed to the point where I couldn't fix it after 10 years, I'd just get another one.

Not sure what Rondo's Warrenty policy lenght is, but they do have the 30 day exchange.

In nearly 30 years of playing , I haven't needed any warentee work done to any of the I can't even remember how many new guitars/basses I've owned.

 

[allexcosta]

Ok, maybe we should see this again...

 

[allexcosta]

If you're serious, put some EMG selects in it. They cost ~$50 w/pots, wires, and a jack. I put some in mine and it beats the pants off of every bass I currently or have previously owned in terms of sound. Total cost: $200 with everything shipped to my door including a gig bag, and an hour of my time to gut/rewire the bass.

Beats the pants off of any Fender I've ever played.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

SX pickups are better than Selects... Don't touch the pickups, maybe shielding and replace pots. 30 bucks upgrade, that's all it takes...