Full Stack Bassist Group (Scott's Bass Lessons).

[oysterphish]

Just update:
I'm on Ionian Mode right now. Luckily, I know all of these things and the lessons prior. I had a really good bass instructor a few years ago who flooded me with anything and everything I'd need for survival in a jam session or even just writing lines.

What's great about all of the knowledge I'm coming in equipped with is that I get to "geek-out" on what Scott is giving me. I'm learning licks, fills, and even my choice of notes in certain instances have changed. My biggest revelation this module was using the minor pentatonic over Maj7 chords. I can now solo at blues jams....I mean it just happened over night, and it sounds great! I mean sure, I could do some before, but I feel like I have more freedom. Like the fretboard just opened up to me.

My biggest hurdle to-date is timing. I believe I can play in the pocket, but when jamming with other people, something happens. Either I am off, or the other members are, and I really don't know how to decipher which is which. Needless to say, I would like my timing to be so solid that it will provide a good foundation no matter who I'm playing with.

 

[SteveCS]

My biggest hurdle to-date is timing. I believe I can play in the pocket, but when jamming with other people, something happens. Either I am off, or the other members are, and I really don't know how to decipher which is which. Needless to say, I would like my timing to be so solid that it will provide a good foundation no matter who I'm playing with.

In terms of self-reflection, I wouldn't get too hung up on that. In the context of a band, time (feel/groove/pocket - call it what you like) is not your sole responsibility. Nor is it solely anyone else's . Rather, it is a shared or collective responsibility. It is not* created, controlled, imposed or managed by one person but by consensus. As such, it is incumbent on everyone to listen to each other in order to reach that consensus. IME, bad time starts to occur when one or more player either stops listening or tries to modify, manipulate or wrangle time by brute-force. Changes of time are achieved by re-negotiation. In fact, playing together is a constant re-negotiation, even of the new agreement is the same as the last one just a few moments ago.

With that in mind, try to work out if anyone isn't listening or taking part in the 'discussion'. It might be you, but running off to the woodshed with a metronome won't solve the problem - it must be worked right there in the room with the others...

YMMV

* Assuming you are not an orchestra or big-band with a conductor

 

[OlyWhite]

I think the biggest thing stopping me from calling Module 1 “done” is the faster stuff on the second half of that last lesson; the tempos took a big jump up! I can play some of the licks but need to woodshed a little more.

I know there has been some student pushback on the Samandl method 1-2-4 fingerings, but I’ve been forcing myself to comply and have made great progress. Coming from guitar, one finger per fret seemed “correct” but Scott is clearly an accomplished bassist so I did what he suggested. At first 1-3-4 seemed more natural than 1-2-4 but I stuck with it. I noticed in the last week that my fingering accuracy has improved dramatically. I’d like to be able to play fretless sometime down the road so this is important to me.

I stopped by my local GC last weekend and played a bit better. I cheated and played a couple P basses acoustically instead of plugging in, but overall I did much better. I just started with a simple groove and built a little from there. I’m not embarrassed by playing simply… it’s like a breath of fresh air compared to the usual Metallica riffs and faux-Yngwie shred from the six-string crowd.

Well, enough jabbering for now. Cheers and happy practicing!

 

[c5hokie]

Everyone see the Module release schedule has been changed? They are splitting a couple of the modules into 2 parts, and increasing the amount of time to complete the course. It was a 6 month course, and it has now been stretched to 8-9 month course.

They are trying to give people more time to do the modules and "keep up" with the release schedule.

A bunch of people on the practice session didn't get the email announcing the changes. If you didn't get it, check Spam first. If you still didn't get it I think they said email support, but I don't recall for sure.



Here is the email:

Module release schedule

When we created this program, we had wanted to push out all 6 modules of lectures over a 6-month period, but based on feedback from many students concerned with pacing, and our own concern that students might rush through too quickly, we’ve decided that it would be best to extend the release schedule and divide up some of the ‘meatiest’ parts of the program into smaller pieces.

We want to make sure that you have the ability to take your time with every part. Time to absorb it all, without feeling too overwhelmed or rushed.

Here is a video from Scott to explain the changes being made.

Live today

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To find out the times and to pre-submit a question, visit the Full Stack Bassist home page and go to the "Weekly Guided Practice Sessions" section, below the welcome page.

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Visit the community

See you in the shed!

 

[SteveCS]

At first 1-3-4 seemed more natural

Don't forget that, whilst 1-2-4 is the foundation of the Simandl method, 1-3-4 is the equivalent foundation of the Bille (or Italian) method. Both are from the string bass world and both have equal legitimacy. Just sayin'

 

[thegrimmbass]

Regarding the Simandl method, my biggest problem is that Scott himself is really not that consistent with it. Also he dies not explain in detail why to go for one or the other.
My personal experience from teaching weekly for the last 10 years (mostly kids, but also lots of adults) is that there is often a huge sight of relief when i show them the simandl method. It takes some stretches away for the left hand and makes you able to really focus on proper positioning of the fingers, the thumb the wrist and the fingertips in a "effortless" way.
Do you have to shift more? Of course, and there are also "exceptions" where we take a little bite out of the finger per fret method to overcome some hurdles, but the building block of the technique i teach is the simandl method in the first months/years. Only when posture and left hand technique is stable, the i show them how and when to use the fpf-method. for example when playing fast triad stuff, or high up the neck runs. But up until then, they also gained quite a good level in fast and accurate shifting and positional playing. this asset (in my humble opinion) is heavily compromised by moving too much in one position, to make a stretch work (in the lower positions) that would normally be to big for the players hands. in this issue i do really disagree with what simon king is teaching in the etudes...
BTW: the etude-modules are full of inconsistencies and little errors in the PDFs (mostly in the TAB) which is quite annoying. as we did not pay extra for them is is not too bad, but they were in fact used to level up the value of the whole package and therefore i think the content there should hold up to the high standards that a +500$ course should follow...
anyway i need to try @OlyWhite's challenge in a guitar shop. thats a fantastic idea to create a light pressure environment to prepare for a rehearsal or live situation

 

[SteveCS]

...
Only when posture and left hand technique is stable, the i show them how and when to use the fpf-method.
...

But also don't forget that Simandl isn't 1-2-4 all the way. 4 gets replaced with 3 in the higher positions and that both 3 and 4 get dropped entirely from the D and A strings due to physical constraints. Electric bass has none of these constraints so the classical string bass methods become less transferrable once you get above say D on the G string.

...
But up until then, they also gained quite a good level in fast and accurate shifting and positional playing. this asset (in my humble opinion) is heavily compromised by moving too much in one position, to make a stretch work (in the lower positions) that would normally be to big for the players hands. in this issue i do really disagree with what simon king is teaching in the etudes...
...

I don't know what is being taught or demonstrated, but I totally agree with you on the lack of facility that a lot of players have when it comes to shifting and that this can be directly attributed to electric bass teaching methods that focus on playing in position, economy of motion and all other related distractions.

 

[OlyWhite]

I appreciate @thegrimmbass ‘s thoughts on position shifting and Samandl. I really like 1-2-4 and have embraced it wholeheartedly.

I need to better educate myself on the technique, so I found a PDF online (the original work is 100 years old and out of copyright) and will spend some time with it this evening.

I hope it includes a section on shifting; I need to put some deliberate thought into that. My bass has position markers that are almost impossible to see, but at least it has frets… so I still have an advantage over the upright guys.

(Yes I know you can buy stickers for position markers, but what fun would that be?)

 

[SteveCS]

I hope it includes a section on shifting; I need to put some deliberate thought into that.

There are a few things that involve shifting - some of the 2nd-octave scale exercises, for example, and also the interval exercises 6th and 7ths.

The thing to remember is that Book 1 stops at or around high A on the G string - roughly the point at which the double transitions to thumb position. Plus the fingering in those positions has changed to 1,2 on A/D and 1,2,3 on G. So in terms of electric bass you might want to look to a more modern electric-focussed text.

 

[OlyWhite]

After working in Samandl book 1 for a while last night, I remember why I peeked at this briefly when I picked up bass and promptly forgot about it.

It’s a rabbit hole.

I read and played my way through the first few positions but started to get a little confused, so I went looking for an image online to help me visualize.

I found a nice one here:

https://doublebasshq.com/learn_posts/rabbath-vs-simandl-whats-the-best-double-bass-best-position-system/

Samandl or Rabbath? Suzuki? Vance?

As Danny Sapko would say: “Bloody hell!”

After reading and watching for a while, I put the iPad down and went to bed. I have more fretboard ability than I need, but lack bass vocabulary and plucking facility. Full Stack is teaching me vocabulary while forcing me to get my plucking together.

I’ll step aside and let more knowledge folks debate this.

 

[oysterphish]

I'm glad the pace of the program slowed a bit. I'm finding all the studies very easy, but the most important take-away for me are the "little things" that if you blink, you miss. I found myself integrating some killer fills while jamming with my band the other day. In my head I was like....whoaw, where did that tasty little lick come from? It's that "must know" bass vocabulary I'm picking up from practicing the sample tracks. I don't study all of them super intensely, but there's a few that I've really ran with, the ones that really spoke to me. Those are the ones that have made their way into my own playing.
When I play live, I'll often ask other musicians, "what'd you think?" or "Any advice on things I can improve on?" Lately, I'm learning to take, "I didn't notice anything." As a compliment. lol. I did have a jazz bassist tell me once (several months ago) that I lag behind the kick too much, pulling the drums down like a heavy weights. Honestly, I'd rather that than lead. I just went to a show where the bass was rushing and it made me anxious. hahah.

I do wish more Modes were covered. We've written a handful songs in Dorian. We have a few in Phrygian, mostly tangos.

 

[c5hokie]

Lesson 2-4 example 3 is my nemesis - Slap! I absolutely suck at slap. Scott (and many other bassists) make it look so easy and I make it sound like a 2 year old with his first bass. I've just never gotten the hang of the slap. I'm too heavy handed so it sounds like i'm just beating on the string and making it hit the fretboard. Flea I am not.

I also haven't had a need to slap in my classic rock cover band, so I haven't really put any effort into trying to get better at it. It also doesn't help that I have neuropathy in my hands, so my pinky finger is really weak and it is tough for me to play that many root/ocataves back to back (forget Samandi style, I have big hands so I mostly play with 3 fingers other than root/octaves ). It will be hard enough for me to do this example finger style, but eventually I'll work on trying to get better at slap too.

To add on to what @oysterphish said, my band had a gig last night, and I also found myself doing a couple of fills that I picked up from the lessons. I've definitely learned a lot so far.

 

[Square]

When I started this program I had years of guitar under my belt, but very little bass. Most of that was root, fifth and a few chromatic notes.

I’m really trying to understand and be able to apply what we’re learning.

I’m still working on “Dock of the Bay”. I’m learning Scott’s version and really pulling it apart. Roots fifths octaves of course, but there are seconds and sixths in there as well. Then there is the voice leading aspect of the chromatic sequences/choices.

I also play that sheet looking only at one chord at a time. In other words take G for example. How many different patterns does he play against the G? Same with the other chords.

I realize I’m probably WAY overthinking this, but this is the way my head works. At some point I’ll move on. I just fear getting to the end of the program and realizing I missed much of what is on offer.

It seems this thread doesn’t get many posts lately. Maybe some folk are blazing through the lessons and don’t have time. Maybe others feel they’re falling behind. I’ve said before each of us is on a journey unique to ourselves. I work on this at least an hour each day, some days much more. As long as you are consistently working and making some forward progress on your journey then it’s all good

 

[OlyWhite]

I’ve basically caught up, though a few technical challenges remain; mostly plucking hand stuff.

I realized last night that I missed part of Dorian, so I’m going back to that. I know the Dorian mode but not his examples of course.

Slap and pop… urgh! Not my style at all. If it weren’t for this course I’d never learn it, but I’ll be an obedient student and do as I’m asked. On the upside, if I learn it I’ll be able to go to GC and be obnoxious like a lot of the guys I see playing bass in GC. LOL. Sorry/not sorry.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve totally forgotten about the live classes. Is anyone doing that? They are either 2am or 2pm for me, which isn’t workable. I’ve tried watching a few replays here and there but didn’t seem to be getting much from them.

 

[c5hokie]

I’ve done about 2/3 of the live classes. Some are better than others but it is all bass playing time, so worth it IMO. They are all archived too, so you can go back and watch them if you want.

 

[mambo4]

How many different patterns does he play against the G? Same with the other chords.
.....
I realize I’m probably WAY overthinking this

no that is precisely the thinking needed
esp if you include "how do these patterns change to if the chord is A? Eb? C?..."

 

[OlyWhite]

I’m still working on “Dock of the Bay”.… At some point I’ll move on. I just fear getting to the end of the program and realizing I missed much of what is on offer.

I stayed on those first couple lessons for quite a while too, but one day I just got tired of working on the same old things and crashed through the next couple of lessens pretty quickly.

It was like a breath of fresh air, and it gave me better perspective on the “bass line construction” (Mod 1 & 2) portion of the course. The early lessons started to seem a lot simpler.

I’m caught up now, but I go back and work on earlier lessons all the time. I pick up things I missed the first time. I’m more relaxed, because I don’t have the feeling of being behind anymore.

The next section is technique, and I’m going to go ahead with it even though I haven’t completely polished up all the Mod 1 & 2 riffs and fills.

I would encourage you to at least try moving on to a new lesson. It was really helpful for me.

If it doesn’t work for you, at least you’ve watched the video and can be mulling over the new material, even if you aren’t actually working on it.

 

[mcaputi]

@Square It seems this thread doesn’t get many posts lately. Prep and school startup limits my time. I have been practicing 4-5 times a week, averaging around two hours per week.

@c5hokie I've just never gotten the hang of the slap. I'm definitely skipping the slap exercise. My goal is to play jazz walking bass. I won't miss much.

@oysterphish I'm glad the pace of the program slowed a bit. I modified my long range practice plan to extend out to end of October. It's attached. MJC refers to me. Trying to keep moving forward at my pace to stay accountable to the course. The milestone is Feb 3 to start Module 2, but I may have to manage my expectations.

@OlyWhite I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve totally forgotten about the live classes. Yeah, me, too. I don't even watch the recordings of them. Right now, I watch Scott in order to get the rhythm down for the exercises. I also use Bandycam to record Scott playing individual exercises, save to mp3, insert into Moises, separate the audio into tracks, play the bass loud, add some drums and guitar softly in the background, slow the speed down (sometimes to 60-65 bpm) to learn the exercises, then gradually increase the bpm as I can. I rarely play at Scott's original recording bpm. 8th and 16th notes are too much for my hands to play at speed. I can maybe play Jazz Walking Bass (quarter notes) at 100 bpm.

 

[c5hokie]

Anyone else watched Pro Skills Workshop #2: The Numbers System? I just finished my second viewing. Whereas I didn't really care for the Sound & Tone Workshop (and it didn't really feel like it was Full Stack specific), this one is really good and is definitely Full Stack specific. I'm going to need to rewatch it at least once more, maybe several more times. There is a lot of stuff in there, and he goes over it pretty fast.

The whole workshop is to understand Nashville Numbers and how they differ from the Roman Numerals (Jazz numbers) system
It isn't specifically mentioned in the materials, but a lot of reference to intervals and understanding them
Triads & Adding 7ths - and which chords are major, minor, diminished; and how they are designated in Jazz and Nashville systems
All the Modes- he quickly goes thru all the modes (as opposed to just the 3 covered in Module 2)
10ths & chord progressions with 10ths
Non-diatonic chords and how they are notated in Nashville Numbers
(Nashville) Numbers in a Minor Key - understanding how to find the relative Minor of a Major key (and vice versa); and how to designate Minor Keys in Nashville Numbers

For those interested, there is Homework on this one. There are bunch of chord progressions to practice.

Overall, a very cool workshop that I will revisit multiple times to remind myself of things.

 

[Square]

Anyone else watched Pro Skills Workshop #2: The Numbers System? I just finished my second viewing. Whereas I didn't really care for the Sound & Tone Workshop (and it didn't really feel like it was Full Stack specific), this one is really good and is definitely Full Stack specific. I'm going to need to rewatch it at least once more, maybe several more times. There is a lot of stuff in there, and he goes over it pretty fast.

The whole workshop is to understand Nashville Numbers and how they differ from the Roman Numerals (Jazz numbers) system
It isn't specifically mentioned in the materials, but a lot of reference to intervals and understanding them
Triads & Adding 7ths - and which chords are major, minor, diminished; and how they are designated in Jazz and Nashville systems
All the Modes- he quickly goes thru all the modes (as opposed to just the 3 covered in Module 2)
10ths & chord progressions with 10ths
Non-diatonic chords and how they are notated in Nashville Numbers
(Nashville) Numbers in a Minor Key - understanding how to find the relative Minor of a Major key (and vice versa); and how to designate Minor Keys in Nashville Numbers

For those interested, there is Homework on this one. There are bunch of chord progressions to practice.

Overall, a very cool workshop that I will revisit multiple times to remind myself of things.

I’m not there for a bit. I do have a rudimentary ( very) understanding of the basic concept. As you described it, this sounds like fun. Something I’ll definitely look forward to. Sounds like a lot to learn from that workshop.