Funk University Disappointment

[JAUQO III-X]

I do think think you're a very poor written communicator, who makes lots of overly broad claims and never supports any of them with any evidence.

Am I to give all the keys away. Some times one has to search for the answer.

Example. I did provide evidence.

Some people can interpret what stiff is and obviously some can't.

Those who find my statement about some European music being stiff, take a break.


You mean to tell me that there is no European music that any of you may find or consider stiff?



One of the reasons a lot of none European musicians and none musicians do not care for the music is because they feel that some of it just moves a little to stiff for their taste.

And you guys seem to have forgotten, that humans are moved by music(any kind). How ever they come to be moved through how the music moves them.

Some people don't like very up tempo music. Because they say that they just don't feel it. I don't get bent out of shape about it.


Don't try to paint me as being negative or a evil person. How many here who does studio work and the artist or producer asks you to take a listen to some music that they want to work on, and the music has a deadness to it or it moves just a little to stiff? Sometimes when you get the right players together to do the songs they take on a more livelier feel. It's all about interpretation.

I have done sessions where the drummer was just not happening and I suggested to the drummer to try some ting in particular or just get another drummer. And the next thing you know the track is working.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course he could.

I really think people are having a hard time with the actual definition of influence.

Maybe it's you that's having the hard time? Impossible?
:hmm"

Sorry but anyone who's actually heard that project would know just how ridiculous that idea is. He did the songs... he wasn't influenced by them.

Are people really serious when they say that any song you do is an influence? As if it can't simply be a song you're doing?

Wow. Here ya go... the influence is just oozing on this:

http://www.amazon.com/Metal-Mood-More-Mr-Nice/dp/B001NTLXTE



Seriously, if this is the bar you set for influence then yes, everything is influenced by anything that's even tangentially connected to it... like playing the Kevin Bacon game... with more degrees.


ps Crazy Train? Oh yeah! Bite it, Ozzy!

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Remember it's all about how one feels the music they are listening to.



Stiff is stiff, just depends on whose listening.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Who says that just because a musician is influenced by a certain style, that style has to show in everything they do, pr if it does as overtly as the untrained ear might like it to?

I don't har much jazz in keith jarrett's performances of J.S Bach's well tempered piano or much ,messiaen in anthony jackson's performances on "The concert in central park" by simon and garfunkel.
Does that really mean that those influences are not there?

Sometimes all that comes through of an influence is a musician's touch or phrasing etc...

If it's not showing up in the music in question, is it an influence on that music?

 

[cnltb]

Am I to give all the keys away. Some times one has to search for the answer.

Example. I did provide evidence.

Some people can interpret what stiff is and obviously some can't.

There are no "keys" for you to give away when the initial premise is that someone does not get from an online tutorial what they were hoping for

Where is the evidence?

Every one can interpret what stiff is, but some can't or won't communicate clearly.
If it is communicated properly no one needs to interpret.

 

[aborgman]

Am I to give all the keys away. Some times one has to search for the answer.

Example. I did provide evidence.

Some people can interpret what stiff is and obviously some can't.

So now we can see that you neither understand the definition of influence nor evidence.

I suggest a few books on formal debate, logical fallacies... and a basic English grammar course. I don't say that to be mean - it's an honest assessment. My second grader has way better writing skills and is easier to understand.

 

[aborgman]

Seriously, if this is the bar you set for influence then yes, everything is influenced by anything that's even tangentially connected to it... like playing the Kevin Bacon game... with more degrees.

That is not the bar I set for influence - that is the bar that the definition of the word "influence" set for influence.

Influence:

1. To produce an effect on by imperceptible or intangible means.
2. To affect the nature, development, or condition of; modify.

 

[cnltb]

If it's not showing up in the music in question, is it an influence on that music?

I think it'll always show , but not always be obvious to every one ( I made that unclear by actually saying something to the effect that it may actually not show up...forget that part of the post as I did not mean that and am too tired now to rephrase that post. Sorry! ).

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe a post from jauquo in which he posts some examples of what he calls stiff european music may be more fruitful?

IOW "I got nothing". I asked for examples and I got redirection.

At the end it's a subjective thing.

This is true. So are people allowed to disagree with what some seem to take as proven fact, despite a lack of examples?

I'd hope so... but that's not what's happening in this thread. As usual.

My objection was not that he thought european music was stiff, but that e seemed quite categorical about it and din't back it up at all.

As is your right. In the meantime I knew what he meant.

I sensed something there that said, one thing he likes can't possibly be influenced by something he dislikes .
I disagree with this sentiment and with the way in which that sentiment was expressed. That's all.

I didn't get that impression. Sometimes it's all in the reading. My favorite is the reading in this thread that those of us who aren't buying the Euro influence on >>>Funk<<< don't want to give the White man credit. I literally LOL'd. Yep, that's why I don't hear it.

But to name just one... I don't consider palestrinas's music stiff.

He didn't say it was all stiff (I know that's what several folks read anyway) and I would think he was talking about the music that PREDATED Funk... because it certainly couldn't be an influence after the fact. And that is the influence I'm talking about. Now if someone wants to show Funk has it's roots in, say Klezmer music and can provide examples, cool. I as always await enlightenment.

 

[aborgman]

If it's not showing up in the music in question, is it an influence on that music?

Maybe, maybe not.

If I consciously rebel against a type of music and thus decide to make something completely antithetical that music type - I've still been influenced by it.

Influence need not be a progenitor, nor a forcing, nor evident in the final product.

 

[aborgman]

Now if someone wants to show Funk has it's roots in, say Klezmer music and can provide examples, cool. I as always await enlightenment.

You seem to be conflating "influence" and "origin" or "roots".

They are two completely different things.

 

[cnltb]

You seem to be conflating "influence" and "origin" or "roots".

They are two completely different things.

+1
Thank you!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think it'll always show , but not always be obvious to every one ( I made that unclear by actually saying something to the effect that it may actually not show up...forget that part of the post as I did not mean that and am too tired now to rephrase that post. Sorry! ).

No problem.


I can't say I'd agree with "always" though. In my own case, sometimes, actually many times I play songs as written without putting my own stamp on them. Other times I play stuff that intentionally goes against what I've learned. Just trying to find something new... for me. When I'm comfortable with a song, when I really know it or feel it, that's when my influences will usually show.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Can any one point me in the direction where I said all European music is stiff?


And again no one seems to want to fess up that they have come across some European music they themselves have found to be stiff.

And my main comment was European music that predated funk.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe, maybe not.

If I consciously rebel against a type of music and thus decide to make something completely antithetical that music type - I've still been influenced by it.

Yes... negatively. Is that what we're talking about here because if it is, I give up. I agree, some European music may have had a negative influence on Funk.

Influence need not be a progenitor, nor a forcing, nor evident in the final product.

Somehow I think I take the word more seriously than you do. I can play some music all day long and not be influenced by it. I'm just playing it.

I still don't see where "maybe, maybe not fits into this when people have been saying there's no maybe.

 

[aborgman]

And again no one seems to want to fess up that they have come across some European music they themselves have found to be stiff.

There isn't a single kind of music in existence that I have never across a stiff example of.

I've heard stiff European music, stiff jazz, stiff blues, stiff funk, stiff reggae, stiff Polka... ANY type of music can be stiff.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You seem to be conflating "influence" and "origin" or "roots".

They are two completely different things.

And you seem to have a pretty low bar for what you consider influences.

So we obviously disagree. Right?

 

[Brad Johnson]

There isn't a single kind of music in existence that I have never across a stiff example of.

I've heard stiff European music, stiff jazz, stiff blues, stiff funk, stiff reggae, stiff Polka... ANY type of music can be stiff.

I still get what he meant. And it had nothing to do with finding examples of what one might consider stiff music elsewhere.

 

[cnltb]

Can any one point me in the direction where I said all European music is stiff?


And again no one seems to want to fess up that they have come across some European music they themselves have found to be stiff.

And my main comment was European music that predated funk.

I think you said Most at some point,not all I think. In the context it doesn't make much of a difference tho.
There's no continent I know of that has not produced some music that may be perceived by some as stiff.


Giovanni Pierluigi Palestrina died in 1594. That predates funk, no?

 

[aborgman]

Yes... negatively. Is that what we're talking about here because if it is, I give up. I agree, some European music may have had a negative influence on Funk.

We're talking about influence - influence doesn't differentiate between positive and negative.

Somehow I think I take the word more seriously than you do. I can play some music all day long and not be influenced by it. I'm just playing it.

If you use things gleaned from that music - you're influenced by it.

Steal one chord voicing, etc.

I still don't see where "maybe, maybe not fits into this when people have been saying there's no maybe.

Using European instruments is a European influence. Using European developed scalar systems is a European influence. Etc.

There is no maybe when it comes to whether funk was influenced by European music, just as there is no maybe when it comes to whether funk was influenced by African music.