Funk University Disappointment

[Brad Johnson]

This is what I believe is the root of many posters, including my own, problem with your argument. This does not say "some" or "a few". It says "most". Big difference between these words and you say it not once but three times. I don't believe you meant it to be, but talk about a broad sweeping and condescending generalization. You can't only pick the stuff that moves you as influences. Word choice matters.

If his opinion is as stated, the problem is what?

And why is it condescending?

 

[aborgman]

And another classically feeble proclamation. Yay. I didn't redefine what my position is, you decided what you thought it was and ran with it.

Redefinition isn't redefining your position - it's redefining a word to fit your position.

Specifically "high" redefinition, where one narrows the definition of a word to suit their argument.

Like narrowing "influence" to to a much narrower definition than the dictionary definition, to exclude the European influence on funk.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Redefinition isn't redefining your position - it's redefining a word to fit your position.

Specifically "high" redefinition, where one narrows the definition of a word to suit their argument.

Like narrowing "influence" to to a much narrower definition than the dictionary definition, to exclude the European influence on funk.

My position on the word. Duh.

And since I didn't do that, despite what you need to think, again...

whatever, dude.

 

[aborgman]

There are no positive nor negative influences? R.I.F. indeed.

Of course there are positive and negative influences - but positive or negative, they're still influences

 

[timbledum]

Thread relevence = 1 / (Last Page Content - First Page Content)

Thread relevence in this case is tending to zero.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course there are positive and negative influences - but positive or negative, they're still influences

A negative influence could influence you not to do something.

This has grown beyond tired. You win.

 

[Febs]

I was speaking to a particular point. Maybe you noticed that.

No, you weren't. You were responding to an argument that was not the argument made by the person you responded to. That's a strawman.

And my point is: is guitar enough alone for Funk to be considered influenced by European music?

Again, it is an influence. It is not, as your strawman argument suggested, the only influence.

You could've included the rest of the post (it was relevant) but instead chose the strawman tactic of leaving pertinent statements out.

Oh, please. I quoted the part of your post that contained the fallacy to which I responded. That fallacy was self-contained. There was no need to quote the rest of your post.

In any event, back to the point I was making initially: the electric guitar and electric bass are both direct descendants of European instruments. Without those European instruments, funk, as we know it today, would not exist.

 

[micromo]

If his opinion is as stated, the problem is what?

And why is it condescending?

Then why did he change the adjective in his later posts.

 

[oilhole]

This is the most boring thread ive ever seen. I couldn't even read it all it was so boring.

Who wants to see a negative thread about Bootsy anyway. Who started this stupid thread. It should be closed down. Its totally pointless

Erase it. Like it never happened

Why are you moderators letting this go on ?

Bootsy is in the hall of fame, for crying out loud. Have some respect for the man. Sheeeesh

 

[wade_b]

No, what you meant by it is you're racist as hell, no matter what your skin color is. The Euro connection is obvious and easily proven, and has been proven repeatedly. On the flip side, you have people just saying "no it ain't, nyah nyah, look it up, the rhythm is black/African".

The only people "desperate" in this thread are ones so stuck in their dogma and racism that they can't acknowledge the clear and obvious influences that these large (and world-traveling) musical cultures have had on each other.

AWESOME.

You win the internet.

Oh no, you think I'm racist?

And why should I care about what you think of me exactly?

I'm comfortable in my own skin. I don't have any guilt.

If you wish to think I'm a "racist", then knock yourself right out.

White boy.

 

[wade_b]

Whoa. I was the guy who used the phrase about music transcending ethnic identity. And it looks like you misunderstood my meaning there. Please review it, in context.

I have reviewed it.

Dont' confuse "transcending ethnic identity" with white-washing (pun INTENDED) the true origins of a particular form of music.

You know, when I was in Greece, there was a real tendency for Greeks to want to "take credit" for all manner of inventions. It was fun to tweak some of them by saying "the romans did this" and watch them get all p**ed off, insisting that "The Greeks" did it FIRST.

That's what some of you cats remind me of.

It's like you just can't stand the fact that some other culture may have come up with their own way of making music that really wasn't influenced at all by European tradition.

 

[wade_b]

Then Pat Boone can list Metallica as one of his influences.

<spits drink through nose>

You're killing me man.

 

[wade_b]

So now we can see that you neither understand the definition of influence nor evidence.

I suggest a few books on formal debate, logical fallacies... and a basic English grammar course. I don't say that to be mean - it's an honest assessment. My second grader has way better writing skills and is easier to understand.

Great.

Here come the internet lawyers.

It's always fun to "debate" with your kind.

"Logical fallacies"

PLEASE

We're talking about FUNK and feeling a rhythm, and here you are breaking out your language lawyer tactics.

Let me ask you something: do you "debate" with your co-workers in this fashion? Would you tell your boss your "2nd grader" communicates better than he does?

Your wife? Your friends?

Then why do you feel the need to break that jive stuff out here online?

I'm actually serious, as I've seen this behavior before from certain individuals on another forum, and from what I've seen, it is used to stoke their own egos and fan the flames of dissent.

Just because you use the language "properly" and do not curse or overtly insult, does NOT mean that you are being respectful.

Again, would you "debate" in this fashion with co-workers, friends or your spouse?

 

[wade_b]

You seem to be conflating "influence" and "origin" or "roots".

They are two completely different things.

Influence is a subset of origin.

You're an awfully legalistic person, and your opinion of your own command of "logic" and language is vastly overstated.

How about dialing it back a notch?

All of the true intelligent people I've met and known have been exceedingly humble and in general open to new interpretations and points of view.

You come off like a Pharisee or an attorney.

That works well in the courtroom, but not here.

Chew on this:

2. Hence, in general, the bringing about of an effect, physical or moral, by a gradual process; controlling power quietly exerted; agency, force, or tendency of any kind which affects, modifies, or sways; as, the influence which the sun exerts on animal and vegetable life; the influence of education on the mind; the influence, according to astrologers, of the stars over affairs. [1913 Webster]

Now ask yourself: does the dictionary define the language, or does language not grow and evolve, leading to new definitions and updated terms?

Any cut-rate pseudo-intellectual can pass off an affected lack of understanding ("Thickness") as a means of feigning intellectual superiority. A true intellectual will gauge the intent of the speaker given the context of the discussion, and then respond accordingly.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Of course it sometimes is.
The difference was that you singled out music of european origin.

+1.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Then why did he change the adjective in his later posts.

You too. You win.

 

[gribuski]

Thread relevence = 1 / (Last Page Content - First Page Content)

Thread relevence in this case is tending to zero.

This

Honestly, I read every post of this thread (originally about Funk University) and got caught up in the discussion...I feel pretty invested in it, like I as directly involved.

And, I kept thinking it was a definite candidate for Godwin's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law). My over/under for breaking it was page 11 (and we're on 14 as of this post).

 

[csala]

This thread needs a xanax.

 

[oilhole]

No matter how this FU runs out, I give Bootsy an A+ for effort. Dont you wish every famous bass player would do something like this ?

I think he has a lot of cojones' just to attempt something like this. So what if he waffles a bit

Yall are on your own little trip discussion though

 

[bigfatbass]

Getting back to the appropriate topic:

I'm not offended with anybody having complaints with anything. Most of the criticisms are valid. I just agree that it would be a good idea to let the source know your criticism so they can improve things rather than just ranting somewhere else where they may or may not see.

I am a paying customer, not their product development advisor. I also voiced my concerns in an e-mail to the site, when I cancelled my subscription, of course.

After 3 months of hype and emails and guest faculty announcements, I do not think I am unreasonable in expecting something that was at the very least thoughtfully laid out, with easy, obviously chronological, access points.

As I already mentioned, Bootsy is one of my freakin' heroes, and easily one of the most creative and unique voices the bass has ever seen. That doesn't even take into account his prowess as writer and producer! Funk U does not reflect any of this, instead it looks like it was put together by an amateur, and to call the content "padded" is to say the princess and the pea was resting upon a folded bath towel.


So far I'm $60 in, and I have the feeling I've done nothing other than throw my time into the same hole I pitched my cash into. Here's a radical idea in web development: how about you call Lesson One, "Lesson One"?