G&L Club Part 7

[funkgod]

hi jamie, everyone should always go on their own experiences, and only that.
so in my case, yes i agree with you, i do hope it gets better.
when i ordered parts for my wal when pete had it they were in the post the next day ALWAYS without question special delivery no matter what the part was.
If your claiming to have a professional product, and want that product to be used by professional people ( by which i mean making a living with it) then at least treat them and all people with the same professional service that their product is aimed at, if not then the whole product is not "professional" at all.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

That's sure enough a bad fit. How did you come to order a pickguard from G&L? Is this a warranty situation? If not--if you're buying the pickguard--why not buy one from pickguardplanet.com? They have the templates for almost all the G&L Fullerton instruments, and they'll even make pickguards for Tributes if you send them the original pickguard so they can use it as a template. I had them make one for my Fullerton Kiloton and it fit perfectly.

I ordered it from their website, because I figured since they made the bass, they'd be able to send me the right pickguard.

 

[metron]

With an engineering background, my brain requires me to measure for reference and informational purposes. So I set up the relief and action of all my basses the same way when I am introduced to them (I turn over basses a lot )

Then I adjust from there based on the results of my baseline, as well as subjectives like feel and eyeballs. That approach provides me with data about how my basses differ from one another.

Once I establish where they like to live in terms of spec, that becomes that instruments baseline. I need to know my instruments baseline because changing strings and seasons makes them shift, and knowing allows me to periodically bring them back to where I like the specs to be.

In conclusion, there is merit to measuring or not measuring. Its all personal preference. And now you know that I am a bit OCD with bass setup specs.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Yes ! i can confirm....
G&L after sales or parts is USELESS, the worst i have ever come across
absolute bunch of useless self rightious to$$er$ ! JMO.
Now i know im going to upset some people here and im sure some have had parts in a timely period.

i tried over the years to order various parts most cases i was lucky to get an answer in a month ...if at all !!
my last and the very last time i will ever try, i tried to order a coil for an old pick up, i needed it quick as i had shows and recording to do with my goto bass, i sent them about 3 to 4 messages and it took them a month to tell me i had to order the whole pick up, if its not in a picture on there site they do not want to know, just awfull back up, ok fair enough,,, but a month !
my message to G&L...
i like your basses ( older ones !) but for gods sake do something about your back up service cus it sucks.
Again... Just my opinion.

(BBE)
G&L became , less once Leo passed and the others that made the legacy moved on.
(Myself included, if you got a bass or guitar made in the 80s, that's my fretwork, and likely my neck shaping, build)

Though over the last decade, they have upped their game, BBE is Still falling down a bit.

It may be easy to forget that this is still a pretty small operation. About the same amount of crafting personnel that they had, in the same buildings, as it was in the 80s when I was there.

Ric is essentially the same, they do what they do, like it or lump it.

They should not have abrasive @55hats on the customer support line though!

 

[One Way]

The mfg spec by DESIGN is to compensate for inaccuracies in mfg, and to provide buzz free performance for even the most hammer handed player.

** Stiffer strings require less relief, more elastic (or light guage) a bit more, and may also require a slightly higher overall action.
Flats can, as a general rule get lower, due to their (generally) relative rigidity, consistent surface wrapping, the faster decay in the vibrational amplitude.

I've been focusing on playing with a lighter touch with my fretting and plucking fingers. I've been able to reduce neck relief needed to avoid string buzzing with the lighter plucking hand touch

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I've been focusing on playing with a lighter touch with my fretting and plucking fingers. I've been able to reduce neck relief needed to avoid string buzzing with the lighter plucking hand touch

I neglected to address that factor.
Also, fingerstyle vs pick vs slap vs thumb pluck.
All can vary the adjustments needed to attain desired performance.

There is also the intonation factor to consider, higher action, with a higher nut will produce sharp notes in the first few frets. It's a world of competing factors that isolated, rigid , mechanical specs may not adequately address.

 

[funkgod]

Hi 3phist,
ok, i get that im coming over a bit stong with the "useless self rightious to$$er$" comment
but, that is how i felt at the time, so im not hiding that.
even with a small crew surly then even more reason to keep people happy.

I have a question or two for you if you dont mind.
the neck on both my L2000 series Es and the 2 i have just after these, are really nice to play, the later ones i have tried even though they are the same neck , dont feel very nice at all, too me, or should i say, not the same, now i know its all prefs.
i did a comparison between my 80/81 series e and a Pre EB MusicMan sabre, the necks were exactly the same and felt the same, i even microed them, perfect, was that neck on the 2000E just a direct copy ? and were there neck options on the first ones ? and was i just lucky it had that on it cus i love that neck.
also on some of the early ones they used unstained ebony on some/most? fingerboards, when did they stop using this as fretboard tops ? cus its not cheap !

 

[richwag]

Yes. Yes of course it is.

Being serious for a minute - why do you want every bass to be the same? Given the variables alluded to such as string type, neck type, pickup and playing position, it would be nonsense to set each relief and action using measurements alone, wouldn't it?

..a bit like using the same tyre pressure for every car you've ever owned?

I've never measured either. I'm looking for a combination of min string height, min relief with no appreciable buzzing/fret noise for my playing style. What would measuring do?

 

[ped]

I've never measured either. I'm looking for a combination of min string height, min relief with no appreciable buzzing/fret noise for my playing style. What would measuring do?

Get you out of a spanking from @Bassclef46 ?

 

[jglunt]

Let's face it, we all do this differently depending on playing style; type, gauge, and brand of strings; the shape of the neck; personal taste; how many strings are on the bass; and even if the neck is shimmed/tilted or not. I personally like to begin with a measurement, play the instrument for a few weeks, and adjust as needed if needed. So here are my personal hard and fast rules: If it sounds good and feels good, it's a great bass.

 

[richwag]

Let's face it, we all do this differently depending on playing style; type, gauge, and brand of strings; the shape of the neck; personal taste; how many strings are on the bass; and even if the neck is shimmed/tilted or not. I personally like to begin with a measurement, play the instrument for a few weeks, and adjust as needed if needed. So here are my personal hard and fast rules: If it sounds good and feels good, it's a great bass.

Exactly! However you get that bass to where it's as good as it can feel and play to you.

 

[Prana Ferox]

Here are my quartet
View attachment 4319872

From L to R
black MK1 series E, slots ebony board Scheller mechines
antique burst, ( i call mk 2) series E, allen key poles, ebony neck, G&L tuners
red L2000 ( i call mk 3) same as MK2 but just on the change with the newer neck,
Ash L2000 ( leo fender Sig) ( i call MK4) this is a very early one that became the mainstay for all the rest with the L. fender sig on the headstock he got told to remove

You sure those are ebony? It's most obvious zoomed to the grain but those are pretty light. See my dusty ebony 1k vs rosewood 2k:

Really nice collection either way.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Hi 3phist,
ok, i get that im coming over a bit stong with the "useless self rightious to$$er$" comment
but, that is how i felt at the time, so im not hiding that.
even with a small crew surly then even more reason to keep people happy.

I have a question or two for you if you dont mind.
the neck on both my L2000 series Es and the 2 i have just after these, are really nice to play, the later ones i have tried even though they are the same neck , dont feel very nice at all, too me, or should i say, not the same, now i know its all prefs.
i did a comparison between my 80/81 series e and a Pre EB MusicMan sabre, the necks were exactly the same and felt the same, i even microed them, perfect, was that neck on the 2000E just a direct copy ? and were there neck options on the first ones ? and was i just lucky it had that on it cus i love that neck.
also on some of the early ones they used unstained ebony on some/most? fingerboards, when did they stop using this as fretboard tops ? cus its not cheap !

The best info I can offer is that the early ones, had human hands, the jigs and sanders with guide plates. Fretboard radiuses with a swing arm and belt sander. Another set of swing arms and a gang saw for radiused fret slots. After the roughing in they were fretted and sanded by hand . We also used a bifurcated ((Bi-cut- blank was split in 1/2 and flipped 1/4 turn, then routed for the truss, which was installed and the 1/2's were glued together. Not certain when, but for a time they top routed the truss channel and capped it with the fretboard.

Ebony:
We had a huge stack of blanks, it was already expensive. Leo kept the stack of wood that was a result of the "Falling Out" with EB, (Tommy Walker) when they were rejecting a high percentage of delivered instruments for miniscule "flaws".
When the stocks ran low, the main production flipped over to Rosewood (which again was a huuuge stack)

That loops us back to the early necks VS later . The wood sourced for Music Man product was MUCH higher in standard quality, Since it was not "Leo's Dime" this was premium wood stock. The body woods too, but the Alder was being replenished before left. The Ash, Mahogany, and even the Alder early on would and could be 1 piece bodies.
At a point sometime after I left i'm certain that the back stock ran out. Economies of scale being what they are I'm certain that a substantial reduction in supply , and substantial cost of the product in demand forced the wood quality to diminish.

It was a highly competitive time, Ric is a few miles away, Charvel / Jackson were also nearby Fender was still just across town. MM was a couple hours north on and on.
Many in the industry had axes to grind with Leo , so likely that efforts were made to avenge past "wounds"....

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Get you out of a spanking from @Bassclef46 ?

We all have our vices.

 

[funkgod]

hi prana, yea it does look like rose wood untill you look close, iv had it confirmed,
some ebony is quite light and looks abit like rose wood, its tighter grained than rosewood, here is some light ebony for sale.
Manufacturer Ebony Wood Veneer Natural Ebony Amara - Buy Wood Veneer,Wood Veneer Natural,Ebony Wood Veneer Product on Alibaba.com

i will get you a closer pic

 

[funkgod]

"The best info I can offer is that the early ones, had human hands, the jigs and sanders with guide plates. Fretboard radiuses with a swing arm and belt sander. Another set of swing arms and a gang saw for radiused fret slots. After the roughing in they were fretted and sanded by hand . We also used a bifurcated ((Bi-cut- blank was split in 1/2 and flipped 1/4 turn, then routed for the truss, which was installed and the 1/2's were glued together. Not certain when, but for a time they top routed the truss channel and capped it with the fretboard.

Ebony:
We had a huge stack of blanks, it was already expensive. Leo kept the stack of wood that was a result of the "Falling Out" with EB, (Tommy Walker) when they were rejecting a high percentage of delivered instruments for miniscule "flaws".
When the stocks ran low, the main production flipped over to Rosewood (which again was a huuuge stack)

That loops us back to the early necks VS later . The wood sourced for Music Man product was MUCH higher in standard quality, Since it was not "Leo's Dime" this was premium wood stock. The body woods too, but the Alder was being replenished before left. The Ash, Mahogany, and even the Alder early on would and could be 1 piece bodies.
At a point sometime after I left i'm certain that the back stock ran out. Economies of scale being what they are I'm certain that a substantial reduction in supply , and substantial cost of the product in demand forced the wood quality to diminish. "
It was a highly competitive time, Ric is a few miles away, Charvel / Jackson were also nearby Fender was still just across town. MM was a couple hours north on and on.
Many in the industry had axes to grind with Leo , so likely that efforts were made to avenge past "wounds"....
---------------------------------

3phist, wow, thanks allot for going into such detail, a great read, very informative, im sure others will get allot out of that also, Cheers

Sorry all i feel like iv hijacked the post !
ok back to it...
string height and set up ?, i too have never measured it, i set it up as im playing it till it "feels" right and i can use all my techniques without any trouble, simple as that really.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I answered the question, and yes the detail is for other's benefit in addition to yours.
preserved here in this huge repository of M. I. data.

 

[jbhaugh]

Well, my new El Toro has arrived! I'm pretty sure it's am '88, based on serial number and an attempt to read the body stamp. It's definitely a refin and it seems to have been red or trans red originally. Electronics are pretty much good, but I think I probably need a new pot for the bass tone control as it is behaving strangely. I had a little panic with the preamp, but it was just low headroom due to a failing battery. I swapped necks and now it has a '95 SB-2 neck on it, and it set up no problem with the new neck. See below for the reasons for the neck swap.

The neck it came with is a disaster. It's a banana and the rod won't straighten it out. Micro tilt just makes the fretboard U-shaped, so no dice.

I have no idea what this neck is. It's not an El Toro neck. I'm not sure it's even a G&L neck.

Whoever refinished it didn't tape off the bottom of the heel, so all markings except the date stamp are gone. The date stamp is 1987. It looks like it might be a L-5000 or Interceptor neck, but it has a reverse headstock. It's not a lefty neck, as the side dots face up when the neck is in playing position. It seems to be a G&L 3-bolt neck with the micro-tilt strike plate and 3 screw holes plus 2 locator holes, but it's really weird.

Any idea what's going on here?

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Well, my new El Toro has arrived! I'm pretty sure it's am '88, based on serial number and an attempt to read the body stamp. It's definitely a refin and it seems to have been red or trans red originally. Electronics are pretty much good, but I think I probably need a new pot for the bass tone control as it is behaving strangely. I had a little panic with the preamp, but it was just low headroom due to a failing battery. I swapped necks and now it has a '95 SB-2 neck on it, and it set up no problem with the new neck. See below for the reasons for the neck swap.

The neck it came with is a disaster. It's a banana and the rod won't straighten it out. Micro tilt just makes the fretboard U-shaped, so no dice.

I have no idea what this neck is. It's not an El Toro neck. I'm not sure it's even a G&L neck.

Whoever refinished it didn't tape of the bottom of the heel, so all markings except the date stamp are gone. The date stamp is 1987. It looks like it might be a L-5000 or Interceptor neck, but it has a reverse headstock. It's not a lefty neck, as the side dots face up when the neck is in playing position. It seems to be a G&L 3-bolt neck with the micro-tilt strike plate and 3 screw holes plus 2 locator holes, but it's really weird.

Any idea what's going on here?

View attachment 4320482 View attachment 4320483 View attachment 4320484

Employee modified factory reject / warranty return that never made it to the circular file. Inverse early sickle headstock. I may know a bit of it's history, especially since that body is trans red originally.
The extra holes are from the neck being screwed to a paint stick / handle.
The SB 2 neck looks good.

 

[metron]

Lefty Interceptor neck?