G&L Club Part 7

[Ricky Rioli]

There are many interesting sounds in this Pendowski demo of an El Toro....



Don't miss the last 20 seconds — pick, bridge, treble right down, a very strong tone.

My autocorrect wanted to call it El Toronto

 

[MrB64]

Is El Toro available in CS?

 

[Holdsg]

No. Or should we say. Not yet.

 

[MrB64]

I watched the Project El Toro video on YouTube.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It looks like a really cool bass. Did they just not sell?

 

[jglunt]

I watched the Project El Toro video on YouTube. It looks like a really cool bass. Did they just not sell?

Many bass-building companies, G&L among them, have taken a lot of stabs at "new and improved" jazz-style basses. Fender itself has tried it. But the fact remains that the bass that Leo designed in the 50s still tops them all in most players' minds. I myself own an MJ-4, and I personally prefer it to any "normal" jazz bass. But most musicians don't like new things. We laud progressive creativity, and yet a 50+ year old Beatles album still makes our top-five list (as well it should, IMO). In short, we don't want a better-sounding better-looking jazz-style bass. We want a Jazz Bass. I'd be willing to bet that G&L's sales would show that they've sold more JBs than all their other progressive jazz basses combined. Those would be the SB-2 (when it used to have two single coil MFDs), the El Toro, the JB-2, the MJ-4 (and 5), and maybe some others that have drifted into obscurity due to lack of sales. This fact is possibly influencing G&L's thinking when it comes to the MFD-equipped JB. They have to be wondering just how well it will sell because it sure won't sound like a Jazz Bass. This is just my opinion. We all have them, just like we all have...well...you know.

 

[TomB]

G&L was great at innovation in its early days. Truth is, the marketing did not keep pace, and mostly the "traditional" or close to traditional designs kept them afloat. For someone who bought and professionally played the first year of G&L's bass production, I find today's recognition and growth of the brand very satisfying. But back then, I got a lot of "Huh?" when I took out my L1000. I even once got a "No!" LOL.

 

[Holdsg]

I get that passive jazz basses sell well.
I just can't stand them myself personally, always leave me cold, wanting more.
So an active jazz (which I own) suits me.
As does a radio-active jazz (which I also own), my El Toro gives me what a passive jazz cannot, the sound that I desire in my head.
YMMV as always

 

[jglunt]

I get that passive jazz basses sell well.
I just can't stand them myself personally, always leave me cold, wanting more.
So an active jazz (which I own) suits me.
As does a radio-active jazz (which I also own), my El Toro gives me what a passive jazz cannot, the sound that I desire in my head.
YMMV as always

Agreed. I love the look of a Jazz Bass, but find the sound bland.

 

[TDR1138]

Agreed. I love the look of a Jazz Bass, but find the sound bland.

Having been a long time L-2000 user, traditional passive Jazzes always seem anemic to me.

 

[MrB64]

Many bass-building companies, G&L among them, have taken a lot of stabs at "new and improved" jazz-style basses. Fender itself has tried it. But the fact remains that the bass that Leo designed in the 50s still tops them all in most players' minds. I myself own an MJ-4, and I personally prefer it to any "normal" jazz bass. But most musicians don't like new things. We laud progressive creativity, and yet a 50+ year old Beatles album still makes our top-five list (as well it should, IMO). In short, we don't want a better-sounding better-looking jazz-style bass. We want a Jazz Bass. I'd be willing to bet that G&L's sales would show that they've sold more JBs than all their other progressive jazz basses combined. Those would be the SB-2 (when it used to have two single coil MFDs), the El Toro, the JB-2, the MJ-4 (and 5), and maybe some others that have drifted into obscurity due to lack of sales. This fact is possibly influencing G&L's thinking when it comes to the MFD-equipped JB. They have to be wondering just how well it will sell because it sure won't sound like a Jazz Bass. This is just my opinion. We all have them, just like we all have...well...you know.

I understand. I have a JB, and 2 Fender Jazzes. One Fender (a Geddy Signature MIM) mostly stays in it's gig bag nowadays. I still play the fretless Fender. I still like my G&L JB, but for the vast majority of my jamming time I'm on my L2K. I'm MFD addicted and unashamedly so. I'd like to get my hands on an El Toro sometime just to try it out.

 

[Iridescentone]

I guess if you had to pigeon-hole the El Toro, it might be tempting to call it a sup'd up Jazz bass, but that seems like a stretch to me. In my view the El Toro is its own entity that sounds different than any jazz bass, or any L-2000, or any SB-2/Lynx. It may share some of the same G&L/Fender DNA, but it's unique. I haven't played anything that sounds just like it.

It's easy to say G&L should have re-issued it long ago, but given its obscurity I'd have to wonder how well it might actually sell.

Geez, what a monster bass. I wish it was a pound lighter.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

I was trying to find a catalog or advert for the El Toro. And failing.

And then I came across a November 1982 price list. It's interesting to see that back then, wood and woodwork were relatively cheap, while pickups and electronics and finishes made a big difference to the price.

SB–1 $349
SB–2 $399
— the SBs had a small range of solid finishes, and were maple fb only
— case add $70

L–1000 $629
L–2000 $786
— these were available with natural / trans finishes
— ebony fb add $20-30
— metallic CAR or gold add $140
— case add $110

 

[woodyng2]

I've always liked the sound of a classic passive J bass, even the one tone most people don't like, i.e.,
the scooped dual pickups at equal volume sound. I've noticed that on my jb2 with a 7.5" radius,
the g string can be a bit shrill sounding. I keep fiddling with the pickup heights trying to keep presence without losing the middle strings. Seems like radiused pickups would really help the design. (Or better yet for me, a flatter wider neck).
So far it's had a set of Labella low tension flats which sounded great, overall, but had a wimpy G that was made even worse by the shrill sound. I replaced that set with GHS Pressurewounds which brought out a snarling grind
that I've enjoyed, but that's not really what i want from this bass.
I'm really interested in checking out a set of the new Labella flats that seem to fall in between the classic and low tension sets.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

on my jb2 with a 7.5" radius the G can be shrill .... trying to keep presence without losing the middle strings .... seems radiused pickups would really help

The DiMarzio Sixties J™ .... the same woody tone, punch, and articulate midrange when compared to vintage single coil Jazz Bass® pickups .... superior tone, responsiveness, and attack are the result of DiMarzio's patent pending parallelogram double-coil designs .... Each pickup is fully potted .... Alnico 5 magnets mount to the arch of our covers and are fitted to closely match the radius of the fingerboard .... keeps the magnet structure closer to the strings for more accurate response

 

[woodyng2]

View attachment 5053813

The DiMarzio Sixties J™ .... the same woody tone, punch, and articulate midrange when compared to vintage single coil Jazz Bass® pickups .... superior tone, responsiveness, and attack are the result of DiMarzio's patent pending parallelogram double-coil designs .... Each pickup is fully potted .... Alnico 5 magnets mount to the arch of our covers and are fitted to closely match the radius of the fingerboard .... keeps the magnet structure closer to the strings for more accurate response

Very tempting for multiple reasons. Love demarzio pickups, dual coils, alnico magnets….something to think about!
Edit: also really loving the curved edges vs the very typical squared off ones.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

November 1982 price list.

SB–1 $349
SB–2 $399

"G&L Build To Order prices as of 1/17/2023:

SB-1: $2550
SB-2: $2600"

The SBs cost about 7× what they did 40 years ago, but that $50 difference between the two has remained

 

[TomB]

View attachment 5053813

The DiMarzio Sixties J™ .... the same woody tone, punch, and articulate midrange when compared to vintage single coil Jazz Bass® pickups .... superior tone, responsiveness, and attack are the result of DiMarzio's patent pending parallelogram double-coil designs .... Each pickup is fully potted .... Alnico 5 magnets mount to the arch of our covers and are fitted to closely match the radius of the fingerboard .... keeps the magnet structure closer to the strings for more accurate response

Does dual-coil mean humbucking? These might be a really nice idea for a JB-2.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

Does dual-coil mean humbucking?

Yes, all Dimarzio Jazz pickups are: Area J, Model J, Relentless J, Sixties J, Ultra Jazz. The webpage for all those is here

 

[woodyng2]

Yes, all Dimarzio Jazz pickups are: Area J, Model J, Relentless J, Sixties J, Ultra Jazz. The webpage for all those is here

Thanks, Ricky….very helpful! (Digging around for my credit card….)
Edit-
New question I should be able to answer myself-does the US JB2 have the different length pickups for neck and bridge?

 

[woodyng2]

Very interesting, I think i like the relentless models even more, with the adjustable pole pieces.