GBE1200 Power Ratings...

[Vinny D]

10 pages of - - - -

I can't wait for the next issue of the mag




Now, about my toaster......

 

[John D Harris]

...




Now, about my toaster......

You really need a Variac between your outlet and your toaster to insure that you are not pulling more than the toaster's rated 110V.

Intensive lab testing has shown that 51% of the time burnt toast is the result of line surges during toasting process.

 

[agedhorse]

Hey Andy....how's the fair going? I bet you had a better day than I did. I spent mine with my inlaws.

The 100 hour workweeks start tomorrow. I'll be a bit shy on here for the next month, so don't think I'm avoiding any questions.

 

[agedhorse]

You really need a Variac between your outlet and your toaster to insure that you are not pulling more than the toaster's rated 110V.

My shop partner actually modified a toaster with a solid state phase control "dimmer" and it automatically adjusted the line voltage down to a referenced 105 volts (the min. low line line condition) from as high as 132 volts, because he got tired of his toast varying from rare to well done at random. He lived out in the country.

 

[John D Harris]

My shop partner actually modified a toaster with a solid state phase control "dimmer" and it automatically adjusted the line voltage down to a referenced 105 volts (the min. low line line condition) from as high as 132 volts, because he got tired of his toast varying from rare to well done at random. He lived out in the country.

LOL...cool!
And here I thought I was just joking around...

 

[detracti]

I don't think so. Your statement was pretty straightforward and very closed minded. I don't think it'd be appropriate for BGM to take that attitude. If you still disagree, so be it.

Your "approach", as I see it, is to run the same tests on each product, and report the results. At least that's what you're establishing with the first issue.

If the tests are refined, based on additional information and/or feedback, great. We get better information. As long as whatever changes are made are applied consistently across all products.

I hope that you don't change that "approach" in even the smallest way to something where your testing is varied to skew the results to favor each product.

Because then we don't have a frame of reference from one product to the next.

So yeah, if you think that is closed-minded, I'm just going to have to disagree.

 

[fdeck]

My shop partner actually modified a toaster with a solid state phase control "dimmer" and it automatically adjusted the line voltage down to a referenced 105 volts (the min. low line line condition) from as high as 132 volts, because he got tired of his toast varying from rare to well done at random. He lived out in the country.

That's a great idea. I am sick of having to put my toaster through two cycles in order to get decent toast. So I would probably be adjusting in the opposite direction.

Maybe regulated toaster power is a new market for Furman.

 

[detracti]

This toaster discussion is so good, it almost needs its own thread!

 

[seamonkey]

To be perfectly fair, no real world situation is even close to as punishing on an amp as a 1/2 power sine wave test for 30 minutes. That's a brutal test on an amp. I expect to see lots of other amps shut down on this test in the future. John Atkinson from Stereophile tests power amps at 1/3 power for 20 minutes and I'd say 50% of the amps he tests shut down under those circumstances.

When you're playing, even when you're hitting clipping every once in a while, the average power demand is nowhere near that of a 1/2 power sine wave test. Maybe 1/4 power, but probably more like 1/8.

It's not a negative comment on an amp if it thermals out under such a demanding test.

As brutal as this test is, the last thing I want an amp to do is to just shutdown. Add some thermal sensing to flash some lights, add distortion and automatically turn down the amp, or lower power supply voltage. Anything but just shutdown.

 

[60bass]

This toaster discussion is so good, it almost needs its own thread!

+1 Let's do it!

 

[fdeck]

As brutal as this test is, the last thing I want an amp to do is to just shutdown. Add some thermal sensing to flash some lights, add distortion and automatically turn down the amp, or lower power supply voltage. Anything but just shutdown.

There's a simple and practical solution. Don't run an amp full tilt if you don't know how it's going to behave. For example, I have a couple of 300-Watt bass amps, both rated into 4 Ohms. But my speaker is 8 Ohms. I ran one of these amps at the full 8-Ohm rated power, and it was still running just fine after a couple hours, when I finally got bored and pulled the plug.

Unless you need stratospheric output power, you can get plenty of headroom without breaking the bank, and even without carrying a lot of weight, thanks to switchmode technology. My present amp, in a 2.5 pound package, carries enough thermal headroom to handle anything that I will ever throw at it.

 

[fdeck]

This toaster discussion is so good, it almost needs its own thread!

Why not kill two birds with one stone, and have BGM test bass amps using a toaster as a dummy load?

 

[John D Harris]

Why not kill two birds with one stone, and have BGM test bass amps using a toaster as a dummy load?

I'd like two 8 ohm toasters, please.
[For really big breakfasts, I use both and run them in parallel.]

 

[tombowlus]

Here's an unrelated question.....did you guys (BGM) actually weigh the amps and cabs or take the weight from the manufacturer's claims? I noticed the GB NeoX212T was shown as 50 pounds which is what it says on the website now (used to say 62 lbs.). It would really help some of us who buy equipment with weight being a primary decider, if you gave actual weight and not claimed weight.

The weights we quote are measured by us, directly.

 

[tombowlus]

To be perfectly fair, no real world situation is even close to as punishing on an amp as a 1/2 power sine wave test for 30 minutes. That's a brutal test on an amp. I expect to see lots of other amps shut down on this test in the future. John Atkinson from Stereophile tests power amps at 1/3 power for 20 minutes and I'd say 50% of the amps he tests shut down under those circumstances.

When you're playing, even when you're hitting clipping every once in a while, the average power demand is nowhere near that of a 1/2 power sine wave test. Maybe 1/4 power, but probably more like 1/8.

It's not a negative comment on an amp if it thermals out under such a demanding test.

Exactly.

 

[tallboybass]

The weights we quote are measured by us, directly.

Thank you Tom, I'm really glad to know that the NeoX212T I bought will ACTUALLY weigh 50 lbs. when it gets here!

I've sent in my $30 and can't wait to get my REAL copy of the magazine.

BTW, it seems like a lot of people have chosen to ignore the part of the review where you talk about the real-world use of the amp. That really counters the numbers nicely.

 

[Lia_G]

Genz reduced the weight of the Neox cabs in this latest round. If you get a brand new one, it should weigh the 50 pounds. If yours is a slightly older one (maybe sat around the music store for a while, or you bought a used one?) it could weigh a few pounds more. The 62 pounds was never accurate ... most of us who bought early ones weighed ours and found them to be 55-57 pounds, so even an older one isn't too bad.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[tallboybass]

Genz reduced the weight of the Neox cabs in this latest round. If you get a brand new one, it should weigh the 50 pounds. If yours is a slightly older one (maybe sat around the music store for a while, or you bought a used one?) it could weigh a few pounds more. The 62 pounds was never accurate ... most of us who bought early ones weighed ours and found them to be 55-57 pounds, so even an older one isn't too bad.

Cheers,
Liam

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks Liam. I bought a used one that isn't very old (I hope). I probably would have gone with a new one had I known. Any idea when they lowered the weight?

Cheers, Alan

 

[Lia_G]

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks Liam. I bought a used one that isn't very old (I hope). I probably would have gone with a new one had I known. Any idea when they lowered the weight?

Cheers, Alan

I think it was around the first of the year or something ... not completely sure. Also, though, I've heard weights as low as 53 or 54 pounds for the older ones, so who knows. And I found my 55 pound one extremely easy to deal with as well.

Good luck!

Liam

 

[Vic]

I hope that you don't change that "approach" in even the smallest way to something where your testing is varied to skew the results to favor each product.

Of course that WOULD be pandering if the tests were designed to "favor" specific products, but I never said anything like that, and to be fair, you never added that qualification to your original post either, and it changes the entire tone of the comment.

If the tests are refined, based on additional information and/or feedback, great. We get better information. As long as whatever changes are made are applied consistently across all products.

EXACTLY, except your first comment left no room for that, and THAT's what I meant by closed minded, and what you say here, is precisely what my adjustment was about, which you originally rejected.

At the end of the day, at least now, we're saying the same thing, and what I was trying to say all along. I'm not sure how it got so confused, but I guess it's ok now.