GBE1200 Power Ratings...

[Vinny D]

I can't belive it!!!!

Still.......NO answers as too why my toast keeps getting burnt

 

[Fretlessboy]

turn it down

I can't belive it!!!!

Still.......NO answers as too why my toast keeps getting burnt

 

[tallboybass]

Well, I sent in my $30 to subscribe, looks like a first class mag to me. I'm also a VERY happy GB user, so I'm on both sides on this one.

It pains me to say this but my Shuttle 6.0 doesn't really feel like 600 watts to me. I've owned an LMKII and it felt stronger power-wise, but in the real world it didn't have the SOUND that I like. I love the sound of the Shuttle so much though, I may get another head to use as a slave so I would have an 8 pound 2-piece head that is 1200 watts and handles 2 ohm loads.

Here's an unrelated question.....did you guys (BGM) actually weigh the amps and cabs or take the weight from the manufacturer's claims? I noticed the GB NeoX212T was shown as 50 pounds which is what it says on the website now (used to say 62 lbs.). It would really help some of us who buy equipment with weight being a primary decider, if you gave actual weight and not claimed weight.

 

[Vinny D]

turn it down

I never turn down toast

 

[tallboybass]

I can't belive it!!!!

Still.......NO answers as too why my toast keeps getting burnt

I think your toaster is putting out more than the claimed power!

 

[esoxhntr]

Still.......NO answers as too why my toast keeps getting burnt

Dude, you've got your toaster set up based on resistive power settings. Try reactive settings - much more accurate in the real world.

 

[fdeck]

I always throw caution out when the discussion turns towards even/odd harmonics. I don't think any power section would want to purposely produce any distortion. Saying it's OK because the distortion it produces will "sound" good is subjective. This shouldn't be an excuse.

It's an excuse if it's how the amp was designed. If this is the way the amp is designed, and one doesn't like it, then you can say: "I don't like how this amp is designed," but one should be much more cautious before saying: "This is not a 1200-Watt amp."

 

[greenboy]

I suppose there are people who can't operate the controls on a decent toaster to get results they like... Not much different than bass rigs in that respect ; }

 

[greenboy]

It's an excuse if it's how the amp was designed. If this is the way the amp is designed, and one doesn't like it, then you can say: "I don't like how this amp is designed," but one should be much more cautious before saying: "This is not a 1200-Watt amp."

Somewhat reminiscient of those who say certain pro power amps don't really make the wattage claimed in their specs when some other factor such as insufficent input gain or AC service is really the culprit...

 

[Eublet]

Vinny, sorry about the toaster, man! I know you've been waiting forever for the parts you need to fix it. Good luck!

 

[svtb15]

Thank you guys.. I thought i was going off on one of my rants.. I feel validated.

I stay by what i said.. EVEN if the thread was about Mark Bass or GK gear.. But since i can care less about those amps, I dont go to those threads to make a statement when stuff goes south... Unless I too have in issue, then i will state my case until thick heads finally get my drift..

And to set the record straight for folks that don't know me, I paid for my GB gear.. and only because i love it. I don't owe anyone anything.. I can play anything brand i care to without having to be exclusive which is the way I do business..
I could own any piece of gear that i desire,, but my GB does exactly what i need it to do, and want it to do. Its that simple..
Every time! I like consistency in my gear...
There are No issues with thermal, or a badly designed DI or Mute buttons that don't really mute but only attenuate, etc... It works, all the time even in hairy situations.

I have a gig to get to now.. Double header today...
This afternoon was outdoors and hot as hell, tonight is a session with nice cold AC, smoke free and lots of Neve toys..
yeaaeehhhh.

+2

 

[Mark Reccord]

I think the thing that really surprised me was the fact that the amp went into thermal protection in the half-power-half-an-hour test. To echo the others that have mentioned this about their GBE-1200's, I have played it wide-open in 100 degree heat for well over an hour on multiple occasions without incident. The fact that the Bass Gear guys experienced any issue with that makes me wonder about that particular unit.

Part of me doesn't care, but the other part wants to understand.

By the way, I'm not questioning the validity of the thermal test itself. I am more questioning whether or not something was wrong with the 1200 that caused it to shut off.

Agreed. I can't imagine a 1200 going into thermal shutdown unless there is a problem with the amp or with the "load" being used. My 1200 just doesn't get hot even running it for extended periods at high volume with a 2 ohm load and I'm in Arizona where we KNOW about heat. I get the feeling you could cram a screwdriver over the outputs on the 1200 and it would just click off without damaging the amp.



Perplexed is the right word. Those of us you use the 1200 daily know that there's just no way that the 1200 is a 600 watt amp. As far as thermal shutdowns go, if there was an issue with the 1200 or any of GB's amps, it would be all over these boards. Funny that nobody has posted how their GB amp always goes thermal. I still believe that the 1200 is a boutique quality high end amp that's priced so that even the average player can afford one.

It's nice to see the good guys at GB checking in on this issue that has all of us 1200 users wondering.

I expect we will continue to see more on this issue.

Now if the article is also saying that it went into thermal shutdown then that's even more shocking. As many have pointed out, these suckers just don't seem to overheat. I get the feeling you could play it in the Sahara and it not go into thermal shutdown. Maybe they did get a bum amp because mine is played LOUD in the heat all the time.

To echo the statement many owners have said, despite the numbers, I dig my GBE 1200!

To be perfectly fair, no real world situation is even close to as punishing on an amp as a 1/2 power sine wave test for 30 minutes. That's a brutal test on an amp. I expect to see lots of other amps shut down on this test in the future. John Atkinson from Stereophile tests power amps at 1/3 power for 20 minutes and I'd say 50% of the amps he tests shut down under those circumstances.

When you're playing, even when you're hitting clipping every once in a while, the average power demand is nowhere near that of a 1/2 power sine wave test. Maybe 1/4 power, but probably more like 1/8.

It's not a negative comment on an amp if it thermals out under such a demanding test.

 

[agedhorse]

It's an excuse if it's how the amp was designed. If this is the way the amp is designed, and one doesn't like it, then you can say: "I don't like how this amp is designed," but one should be much more cautious before saying: "This is not a 1200-Watt amp."

Just to clarify, the basic power amp's typical THD below clipping is less than 0.1% from 20Hz-10kHz and maybe up to around 0.2% at 20kHz. The harmonic components are developed by the (tube) preamp and tube output emulation limiter. The basic power amp is a full on classic balanced differential pro audio power amp section with plenty of lineage history.

 

[hasbeen]

Just to clarify, the basic power amp's typical THD below clipping is less than 0.1% from 20Hz-10kHz and maybe up to around 0.2% at 20kHz. The harmonic components are developed by the (tube) preamp and tube output emulation limiter. The basic power amp is a full on classic balanced differential pro audio power amp section with plenty of lineage history.

Hey Andy....how's the fair going? I bet you had a better day than I did. I spent mine with my inlaws.

 

[svtb15]

Not the way i use my gear... Rev it to the red line baby

To be perfectly fair, no real world situation is even close to as punishing on an amp as a 1/2 power sine wave test for 30 minutes. That's a brutal test on an amp. I expect to see lots of other amps shut down on this test in the future. John Atkinson from Stereophile tests power amps at 1/3 power for 20 minutes and I'd say 50% of the amps he tests shut down under those circumstances.

When you're playing, even when you're hitting clipping every once in a while, the average power demand is nowhere near that of a 1/2 power sine wave test. Maybe 1/4 power, but probably more like 1/8.

It's not a negative comment on an amp if it thermals out under such a demanding test.

 

[fdeck]

Just to clarify, the basic power amp's typical THD below clipping is less than 0.1% from 20Hz-10kHz and maybe up to around 0.2% at 20kHz. The harmonic components are developed by the (tube) preamp and tube output emulation limiter. The basic power amp is a full on classic balanced differential pro audio power amp section with plenty of lineage history.

Thanks!

By the way, my intent here is mainly that have an irrational compulsion to understand as much as I can about how gear works.

 

[John D Harris]

Hey guys, I think they sound OK. I found the GB750 to not hang with my TF550b like I thought it should, and find the '600 watt Shuttle' to be SIGNIFICANTLY lacking compared to other 500 watt rated amps (much less 600 watt rated amps). That again does not mean that I couldn't be quite happy with the performance of either of the these amps, since I rarely reach the limit of moderate powered amps.

I just find it interesting that the magazine's tests confirm my experience with the other two amps (i.e., Mesa.... KILLER amp that sounds louder and fuller than the MB LMII... i.e., right in line with the test), and also found the volume and clean low end of the recent Genz stuff 'lacking' GIVEN THE PUBLISHED RATINGS' (i.e , the 750 is just a slight touch shy of the open end and volume of, for example, the AG500, the LMII, the TF550b, etc.).

I'm all about just listening and comparing and 'calling a spade a spade'. I think the Genz guys reported that the Shuttle 600 puts out about the same power as the Genz750, and I agree with them. It just doesn't compare to some of the other amps I spend time with that are rated similarly or lower.

Not sure what else to say. I guess I'll check out of this. If I'm biased, shame on me. However, I go out of my way to turn down the few endorsement deals I've been offered, and also make a point of not 'becoming friends' with manufacturers, since I LOVE to A/B this stuff and, to the best of my ability, report what I hear, without feeling like I 'owe' anybody anything, or that I might 'offend' some one on the manufacturers side (quite frankly, I don't care about that).

And again, being satisfied with an amp has NOTHING to do with the absolute performance of the amp. Saying, 'the amp is loud and is the best amp I've ever played' doesn't really mean that much, since we all have different requirements. A Crate could be someone's dream amp, while someone else will be disappointed with a Glockenklang.

And again, to fess up, I have not played a 1200. I was excited about both the 750 and 6.0 until I played them and compared the rated spec's, size, weight, wattage to other offerings with similar spec's and found them lacking (although they both sound just fine).

K

Ken, I'm just curious whether you used the GBE-750 on a gig.
Secondary questions:
-- how did you EQ the two Genz Benz amps that you mentioned trying out?
-- how did you have the gain/volume/master volume controls set up?

If the Genz Benz amps have built-in high pass filters in their preamps and complex (and more like linear) gain/volume/master volume controls it seems it might be easy to misconscrue (not saying that you did, but just that the possibility exists) its performance during your trials.

 

[The Lurker]

Which brings us back to point number 1 that Tom has been making, which is that no single standardized test is going to work well for all heads.

Would be nice if there was an ASTM or ISO standard for testing bass gear, though........... at least for bench values

 

[tallboybass]

Regarding output power versus frequency, again the actual maximum output power was not used but instead the response was referenced to some arbitrary point and any preamp voicing (in our case an intentional rolloff) was subtracted from the reference point. This is no different than a frequency response plot of the preamp itself.

This is the part of the testing that I don't understand. I don't remember seeing this done before, and it does seem like it would end up being a pre-amp response curve rather than a power test. For power rating isn't it usually done bypassing the pre?

 

[Vic]

Excuse me!?

No, I don't think I'll adjust anything. The moment you start pandering to manufacturers, you've it.

It's not pandering. It's being reasonable. If you're completely inflexible, then you assume you're 100.00% correct, and anybody that offers counterpoint is wrong. I don't think BGM is quite there yet.

Or maybe you're misunderstanding what I meant.

I don't think so. Your statement was pretty straightforward and very closed minded. I don't think it'd be appropriate for BGM to take that attitude. If you still disagree, so be it.