With all the info, I can understand your questions, but really, before reading the article, were you perplexed? If you dig the amp, then who cares what numbers say what?
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GBE1200 Power Ratings...
- Thread starter JGR
- Start date
With all the info, I can understand your questions, but really, before reading the article, were you perplexed? If you dig the amp, then who cares what numbers say what?
Part of me doesn't care, but the other part wants to understand.
By the way, I'm not questioning the validity of the thermal test itself. I am more questioning whether or not something was wrong with the 1200 that caused it to shut off.
Agreed. I can't imagine a 1200 going into thermal shutdown unless there is a problem with the amp or with the "load" being used. My 1200 just doesn't get hot even running it for extended periods at high volume with a 2 ohm load and I'm in Arizona where we KNOW about heat. I get the feeling you could cram a screwdriver over the outputs on the 1200 and it would just click off without damaging the amp.
Perplexed is the right word. Those of us you use the 1200 daily know that there's just no way that the 1200 is a 600 watt amp. As far as thermal shutdowns go, if there was an issue with the 1200 or any of GB's amps, it would be all over these boards. Funny that nobody has posted how their GB amp always goes thermal. I still believe that the 1200 is a boutique quality high end amp that's priced so that even the average player can afford one.
It's nice to see the good guys at GB checking in on this issue that has all of us 1200 users wondering.
I expect we will continue to see more on this issue.
Well, I'll be honest, I might as well have been reading chinese for all that I understood with all this EE jargon flying around. I am glad Genz stepped in to explain things...to those who understood it. I haven't read the article so I don't know what all it says other than apparently the GBE 1200 came in under powered according to their testing procedure. Now if the article is also saying that it went into thermal shutdown then that's even more shocking. As many have pointed out, these suckers just don't seem to overheat. I get the feeling you could play it in the Sahara and it not go into thermal shutdown. Maybe they did get a bum amp because mine is played LOUD in the heat all the time.
To echo the statement many owners have said, despite the numbers, I dig my GBE 1200!
To echo the statement many owners have said, despite the numbers, I dig my GBE 1200!
This thread is strange.
I guess the only comment I have is what about those of us who don't work for Genz Benz or who aren't endorsees associated with the company (nor associated with the magazine), nor associated with any other company (i.e., just TBers who have no interest in reporting anything but what we hear) who saw the review and thought 'THAT's why these things sound different than the spec's suggest'
That IN NO WAY means that, for example, the 1200 doesn't sound great and isn't 'loud enough' for many situations. However, there is a rat in the soup here IMO
For what it's worth, this GBE1200 owner is deliriously happy.
Simply put, it is the finest head I've owned in my nearly 30 year career. I've pretty much had them all, but the 1200 stands head and shoulders above the rest. The punch, tone, responsiveness and operation of this beast is absolutely tremendous. Just this past weekend it spend four hours in 100+ degree heat running at 2ohms and it the case wasn't even warm to the touch when I switched it off.
The organization and its' people are tremendous as well. Even a nobody like me gets more courteous, timely and useful attention than official endorsees of competing products. Thank you all for making such fine gear.
Simply put, it is the finest head I've owned in my nearly 30 year career. I've pretty much had them all, but the 1200 stands head and shoulders above the rest. The punch, tone, responsiveness and operation of this beast is absolutely tremendous. Just this past weekend it spend four hours in 100+ degree heat running at 2ohms and it the case wasn't even warm to the touch when I switched it off.
The organization and its' people are tremendous as well. Even a nobody like me gets more courteous, timely and useful attention than official endorsees of competing products. Thank you all for making such fine gear.
That describes me Ken, except for the last part. The head has always sounded as the spec's suggest. That's the baffling part. It has all the power I'd expect a 1200 watt head to have. I usually can see your point of view at the least, but in this case I have idea what it is you say you have heard. The 1200 is a monster. The 750 is right in line with other heads rated around 600 watts at 4 ohms.I guess the only comment I have is what about those of us who don't work for Genz Benz or who aren't endorsees associated with the company (nor associated with the magazine), nor associated with any other company (i.e., just TBers who have no interest in reporting anything but what we hear) who saw the review and thought 'THAT's why these things sound different than the spec's suggest'
This thread is strange.
I guess the only comment I have is what about those of us who don't work for Genz Benz or who aren't endorsees associated with the company (nor associated with the magazine), nor associated with any other company (i.e., just TBers who have no interest in reporting anything but what we hear) who saw the review and thought 'THAT's why these things sound different than the spec's suggest'
That IN NO WAY means that, for example, the 1200 doesn't sound great and isn't 'loud enough' for many situations. However, there is a rat in the soup here IMO
There are plenty of us also, though, who are not endorsers, who look at the test numbers and report of a thermal shutdown, and also believe "there is a rat in the soup here IMO
", just not perhaps the same rat that you believe you taste.Yes, I know, I am a former endorser, so perhaps my saying that is suspect in your eyes as well, even though as of today I no longer own a single piece of Genz Benz gear (just sold my GBE600). So be it ... doesn't change the fact that this is my honest opinion based on my experience, which just happens to differ from yours.
Best Regards,
Liam
This thread is strange.
I guess the only comment I have is what about those of us who don't work for Genz Benz or who aren't endorsees associated with the company (nor associated with the magazine), nor associated with any other company (i.e., just TBers who have no interest in reporting anything but what we hear) who saw the review and thought 'THAT's why these things sound different than the spec's suggest'
That IN NO WAY means that, for example, the 1200 doesn't sound great and isn't 'loud enough' for many situations. However, there is a rat in the soup here IMO
I own GB gear but I'm not an endorser. I practice with mine, play live with it and hear a great sounding amp. I can't say if it "sounds" like a 1200 watt amp but I can say, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I played a Mesa Titan and felt the GBE 1200 hung with it no problem AND sounded better to my ears.
Hey guys, I think they sound OK. I found the GB750 to not hang with my TF550b like I thought it should, and find the '600 watt Shuttle' to be SIGNIFICANTLY lacking compared to other 500 watt rated amps (much less 600 watt rated amps). That again does not mean that I couldn't be quite happy with the performance of either of the these amps, since I rarely reach the limit of moderate powered amps.
I just find it interesting that the magazine's tests confirm my experience with the other two amps (i.e., Mesa.... KILLER amp that sounds louder and fuller than the MB LMII... i.e., right in line with the test), and also found the volume and clean low end of the recent Genz stuff 'lacking' GIVEN THE PUBLISHED RATINGS' (i.e , the 750 is just a slight touch shy of the open end and volume of, for example, the AG500, the LMII, the TF550b, etc.).
I'm all about just listening and comparing and 'calling a spade a spade'. I think the Genz guys reported that the Shuttle 600 puts out about the same power as the Genz750, and I agree with them. It just doesn't compare to some of the other amps I spend time with that are rated similarly or lower.
Not sure what else to say. I guess I'll check out of this. If I'm biased, shame on me. However, I go out of my way to turn down the few endorsement deals I've been offered, and also make a point of not 'becoming friends' with manufacturers, since I LOVE to A/B this stuff and, to the best of my ability, report what I hear, without feeling like I 'owe' anybody anything, or that I might 'offend' some one on the manufacturers side (quite frankly, I don't care about that).
And again, being satisfied with an amp has NOTHING to do with the absolute performance of the amp. Saying, 'the amp is loud and is the best amp I've ever played' doesn't really mean that much, since we all have different requirements. A Crate could be someone's dream amp, while someone else will be disappointed with a Glockenklang.
And again, to fess up, I have not played a 1200. I was excited about both the 750 and 6.0 until I played them and compared the rated spec's, size, weight, wattage to other offerings with similar spec's and found them lacking (although they both sound just fine).
K
Ken, I think the attenuated low end of the Genz pre is responsible for what appears like a lack of oomph for some. My thing is that it's easy to boost and still retain most of the headroom. The 750 when set flat doesn't have the low-mid push of the TF550b, nor the open low-end of the LMII. It sounds different. It still sounds like an honest 625 watts at 4 ohms to me. The 1200 sounds like an honest 1000 watts at 4 ohms. Those 5%THD numbers, low resistive output, along with two thermal shut-downs inside of 30 minutes, indicate to me that something was massively wrong with the head. I could be wrong on this.
I got out my 1200 at home today and plugged it into my 212. Compared it directly to my Shuttle 6.0. Big difference in headroom and power, with a significant volume difference. I boosted the lows big time, more than I would in any live situation, and engaged the Low Frequency Extension and turned it up pretty good, then started playing and raising the volume until I was afraid for my cabinet. Massive power, and the clip light never flashed once, but I could hear the drivers bottoming out. Just what I'd expect 1000 watts to do into a 600 watt cabinet. I've put my 1200 on top of a 4 ohm 810 that's usually driven by either wt800c bridged at 4 ohms (that's 1100 watts) or an Aguilar DB750 (975 watts) and the Genz Benz is right there, punchier than both by a long shot, with just as much volume and more dynamic range, even with the low-end boosted where I like it.
No way this is a 600 watt head. I'm not concerned with tonal assessments of who likes what. I'm focused on the numbers just for the sake of the numbers.
I got out my 1200 at home today and plugged it into my 212. Compared it directly to my Shuttle 6.0. Big difference in headroom and power, with a significant volume difference. I boosted the lows big time, more than I would in any live situation, and engaged the Low Frequency Extension and turned it up pretty good, then started playing and raising the volume until I was afraid for my cabinet. Massive power, and the clip light never flashed once, but I could hear the drivers bottoming out. Just what I'd expect 1000 watts to do into a 600 watt cabinet. I've put my 1200 on top of a 4 ohm 810 that's usually driven by either wt800c bridged at 4 ohms (that's 1100 watts) or an Aguilar DB750 (975 watts) and the Genz Benz is right there, punchier than both by a long shot, with just as much volume and more dynamic range, even with the low-end boosted where I like it.
No way this is a 600 watt head. I'm not concerned with tonal assessments of who likes what. I'm focused on the numbers just for the sake of the numbers.
- Apr 3, 2003
- 35,518
- 19,954
- Disclosures
- Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
I'll tell you what, folks. Try putting aside the charts, specs and graphs for a sec, and either read the 'in hand' review, or - better yet - if you have a GBE 1200 on hand, go give it a listen.
In our tests, using an unregulated 120v 15A line, the output power into a resistive load was not as high as the rated power as stated by Genz-Benz, who tests using a reactive load. The high-current output section is a big reason why the GBE 1200 is so powerful in a dynamic sense, and the large number of output transistors allow it to remain robust in its output when demand gets high.
There is no rat, just different manners of testing.
Trust your ears.
Tom.
In our tests, using an unregulated 120v 15A line, the output power into a resistive load was not as high as the rated power as stated by Genz-Benz, who tests using a reactive load. The high-current output section is a big reason why the GBE 1200 is so powerful in a dynamic sense, and the large number of output transistors allow it to remain robust in its output when demand gets high.
There is no rat, just different manners of testing.
Trust your ears.
Tom.
- Mar 22, 2005
- 3,718
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
This thread is very interesting. I have not tried the 1200 but I have played through a 6.0 and I do agree that it didn't seem like a 600 watt amp. Some older 300-400 watt Peavey heads I owned in the past seemed louder than the 6.0. I really liked the design and the tone but it just didn't seem like it had the booty I needed.
Just to be clear, I want to say that I am NOT calling out Tom or any of the reviewers. I DON't believe in any way that they aren't doing the absolute best they can. If you notice, Tom's review of the GBE 1200 was quite long and extensive, and very flattering. I think he's been quite diplomatic here, and if anything is amiss, you can be sure that he'll work it out. I have doubted that the head itself might not have been functioning correctly. The thermal trips are what makes me wonder the most, not the numbers. In the end, try one and see for yourself. If it's not for you, move on and be happy.
Tom - I am GENUINELY looking forward to future issues. I expect to see all kinds of cool stuff in the future. Thanks for being a cool guy. Can't wait to see you (hopefully) at the next B3, that is, if I'm still invited!
Jason
Tom - I am GENUINELY looking forward to future issues. I expect to see all kinds of cool stuff in the future. Thanks for being a cool guy. Can't wait to see you (hopefully) at the next B3, that is, if I'm still invited!
Jason
+ 1
I couldn't have said it any better myself as I find myself in the same position after 40 plus years as a bassplayer. My GBE1200 continually impresses me in every way, every time I use it.
TD
On a related topic, I tried to read but...
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Chalk up another 30+ year career player who feels the same way about his 1200. I've used them all at one time or another. SVT, Acoustic 360, 370, SUNN Concert, Coliseum, Peavey, Bi-amp rigs, Yorkville, Carvin, Fender with just about as many different cabinets.
The GBE1200 is the clear winner for me and is everything I could want in an amp.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Is it possible that the GBE1200 might not be the best choice for a bassist playing gigs in venues with questionable power fed to 15-amp circuits? A Ferrari isn't a bad car just because it isn't made to run at its advertised maximum speed on sub-standard fuel.
FWIW, The one word that comes to mind when someone says "Genz-Benz" is CREDIBILITY.
