I think for me, it will be all about the lows. I hear the Genz
amps don't always have enough in the lows, but if there's
some beef around 50-60hz, I'll be spending some money.
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Genz-Benz Shuttle Megathread
- Thread starter Michael Vee
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I think for me, it will be all about the lows. I hear the Genz
amps don't always have enough in the lows, but if there's
some beef around 50-60hz, I'll be spending some money.
yeah, I hear that too, and it's complete bull butter. Some heads start at different places than others with a flat EQ. And cabinet choices and pairings make a HUGE difference when qualifying a head. Also important is where a person is coming from tonally; what their ears have become accustomed to.
The Genz stuff is not lacking in lows, though compared to some heads, they are more neutral sounding when the EQ is flat. But it can certainly pound the lows hard if you want it to. Anyone who wants to hear for themselve can PM me if they are willing to make the trip to one of my gigs. Or if you're in Dennis neck of the woods, PM him as well. He's always willing to let people check out his stuff as well. The Genz stuff is outstanding if you just setup the head to get your sound. In my experience, 90% of most bass players don't know how to setup any amp, much less a GBE 1200 with all those knobs.
Just boost the bass eq a bit. Or engage the LF filter. From the Shuttle 3.0 owner's manual:
"The L.F. BOOST adds low frequency peaking gain in the 38-67 HZ band."
This is a great addition to the bass eq control on the amp, which is centered at 80 hz.
I played the Shuttle 3.0-10t combo plus the little 10t extension cab at the pretty loud rehearsal / audition I described above, and had the amp eq almost flat, but the LF engaged for my 5 string fretless Stingray. Onboard eq on the Stingray was flat. The bottom was big, tight and punchy. One of the tunes we did was a blues in C with the verses all just hits on the root, on the downbeat, then vocals over silence for the rest of the bar. I played most of the hits on the C on the A string, but did some of them on the low C down on the B string, and it was thick, quick and punchy as all get out. The guitarist actually looked at me and yelled "Yeah, man!!" on one of them.
And that's the 300 watt version of the head into two tiny 110 cabs, in a loud electric blues band.
Cheers
"The L.F. BOOST adds low frequency peaking gain in the 38-67 HZ band."
This is a great addition to the bass eq control on the amp, which is centered at 80 hz.
I played the Shuttle 3.0-10t combo plus the little 10t extension cab at the pretty loud rehearsal / audition I described above, and had the amp eq almost flat, but the LF engaged for my 5 string fretless Stingray. Onboard eq on the Stingray was flat. The bottom was big, tight and punchy. One of the tunes we did was a blues in C with the verses all just hits on the root, on the downbeat, then vocals over silence for the rest of the bar. I played most of the hits on the C on the A string, but did some of them on the low C down on the B string, and it was thick, quick and punchy as all get out. The guitarist actually looked at me and yelled "Yeah, man!!" on one of them.
And that's the 300 watt version of the head into two tiny 110 cabs, in a loud electric blues band.
Cheers
+1
MY Neo Pack and the 1200 I owned both seemed to lack lows when flat. But that's what the EQ is for. I keep the bass boost on all the time and the bass boosted a bit and I get a lot of lows out of a single 1x12.
Dan
I have a feeling the Michigan boys will be doing this soon. I have an F1 (although I have a feeling the LMII is probably closer to the 6.0 in vibe versus the very clean F1), and LDS has ordered a couple 6.0's, which I assume will arrive soon.
I look forward to checking this out. Yeah, I would think the tube in the pre would make it wonderful for some and not so much for others, and like you, that would be my guess as to the major preferences between the small MB models (the super clean F1 and the somewhat warmer LMII) and the 6.0.
The DI seems very well layed out on the 6.0 versus the 'bare bones' on the smaller MB's, so that seems to be a plus on the Genz side, as is the higher power rating. The MB seems to have the EQ advantage. I've always hated fixed 'contour' and 'deep' and 'high' buttons, versus the very nice variable filters on the MB, and I also always seem to prefer two bands of mid to a single mid control (semi-parametric or not)... but it all depends on how the amp is voiced to begin with. I absolutely love the 'deep bass control combined with low mid control' on the MB stuff which really allows you to fine tune the 'boom versus punch', and the same thing up top, with the very high shelving point treble control along with the passive treble roll-off, which gives you a nice 'grind versus sizzle' control.
Service and support should be a wash with the MB new policy, which is pretty amazing... anything goes wrong within 2 years and you just get a new amp. Both should be great in the unlikely even that anything goes wrong.
It will be fun to check these heads out!
- Nov 29, 2007
- 3,641
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- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist GENZ BENZ/HERCULES STANDS/XSonics
I heard that about neo cabinets as well ... I seam to not have a problem getting lows. The globalsignal shape section helps that alot. If you taake the time to get to know the piece which as I found out wasn't as simple as I thought. I made a lot of mistakes with the 1200. I should have a 6.0 if not today ,Monday. I can tell I will approach this head totaly differently than I did the 1200 when I got it. So life is a learning curve.
Just a point of clarity: According to the manager at my local GC, who just got updated training on the MB warranty, you do not just get a new amp if yours breaks. According to his training, it is a "repair or replace" warranty, at MBs option. They have authorized repair centers in the states now, and will evaluate your amp before offering repair or replacement.
If MB is intending a direct replacement warranty, then they are definitely sending the wrong message and training to their retailers.
That said, there's nothing wrong with a "repair or replace" warranty, and it is comparable to most major retailers.
I'm looking forward to getting my 6.0 next week so that I can do a head to head comparison with my newly-purchased LMII.
I've owned two of their products now (Neox400 combo and the GBE 750), plus I've tested the new 3.0. With the right cab, there is no lack of low end, even when flat.
I think the 'repair or replace' is more of a legal wording and requirement. The key is, 'at MB's option', NOT at 'GC's option'. And MB has made it pretty clear that there option will be to give you a new amp. Pretty cool!
+1 Ken. I had an issue with my MB LMII. Ultimately, they replaced it with a brand new amp. Smooth, quiet and trouble free ever since. But the bottom line is GC and MB took care of me. ...I love my MB LMII, but I still want to try a GB 6.0!!!!! That tube is awfully compelling, as are the DI enhancements among other features. Can't wait to hear some reviews of the new 6.0!!!
For those who have ordered the 6.0 (head only) - what is the street price? Not even sure if you are allowed to publishon the wide-open forum, if not could you PM me? thanks 
+1... the point per my post previously is that the warranty situation is pretty even between the two companies, although it's hard to beat the hands on service and support of the Genz guys! I would have absolutely ZERO concerns about purchasing a piece of Genz gear regarding after the sale service, and the stuff seems very reliable.. virtually no problems posted. Nice!
I look forward to checking out the Shuttle 6 and 3!
Cool. I think that's actually a more A/B comparison than the F1. I would think many would be interested in getting a feel for the tonal differences between these two very impressively spec'd and priced units!
When their exclusive retailer is telling buyers that it is a "repair or replace" warranty, and that they have established repair centers in the US, it's pretty hard to argue that there's any clarity about providing a new amp to owners of amps with warranty issues.
Again, there's nothing wrong with a repair or replace warranty, but it's just misleading to infer intent then state it as policy. Even Peter's comments here have been conflicting, at best.
Sorry for the derail.....
I will do my best, although I lack the descriptive abilities of many here on the forum. If any GOOD bassists (I'm a hack) in the Nashville area would like to participate in an A/B, just let me know.
I've owned and loved two GBs, and both had plenty of lows. I started out with a 210 combo and moved up to a NeoX 112T. The NEO had massive lows for a single 12 cabinet. Using a Lakland 5594, I ran the amp basically flat but used all three pushbutton shape controls for lows, mid-scoop and highs. If the amps can offer lows with2 10sand 1 12, I see no reason why larger configurations should lack bass. If anything, I had to cut treble.
I'll leave decisions on whether I'm good or not to others, but I'd love to get in on this. I can bring my Shuttle 3.0 and NeoPak along for kicks as well.
Cheers
That would depend on the bass and the cabs used.
When I run the Neo-Pak with either the Dr.Bass BL1260 or the Carvin LS1503LF, which are full-range cabs, I hear a very accurate representation of the way the bass sounds when all the EQ is run flat. The flat sound is very similar to the sound of that same bass run direct into a headphone amp with good headphones.
Aged can address this further, and I believe he already has elsewhere, but the Genz amps are designed to be very neutral and flat when the EQ is set flat. Therefore, depending on the bass and cabs you're using, a lot of EQ might be called for to emulate the sounds of other amps. Personally, though, I'm a fan of the flat EQ on my Neo-Pak, with just minor tweaks. It's very musical, and it's easy to hear and to play with.
well, not exactly but I'll be A/B-ing the Shuttle 6.0 vs LM II
I have a pre-order in I'm told should ship by end of next week
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