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Genz-Benz Shuttle Megathread

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Sweet sound Dennis... just got back in from San Antonio late last night, ran through with the Praise Band this morning and have a gig this afternoon with them.... the shuttle 3.08T is perfect. The big room this afternoon seats 2500 and has a Million dollar sound system and a guy that really knows how to run it... CANT WAIT to see how it sounds.

.... nice maple on the new lakie..... GAS comin again......
 
gigged last night--The Shuttle 6.0 was absolutely fantastic.

EQ settings were left flat and were perfect for the situation--except I did roll off the treble all the way pretty much although I'm not sure I needed to.

The preamp doesn't overdrive all that much with "my" passive bass. I imagine if you have an active bass or use any type of pedal that can increase the input---you will be able to get overdrive all the way into fullblown grind.

For me it was enough, I could get some breakup by digging in. That being said, it would be nice to have a little button so I could get full-blown overdrive with a passive. The overdrive that I got though was very smooth.

The next question I will be exploring is whether you could replace the pre tube with one that had higher gain. I can't remember off-hand what the next step up in gain from a 12AX7 is but I'm pretty sure the 12AX7 isn't the most gain you can get in a pre-tube. The question to get answered before that is whether that voids your warranty or provides any risk whatsoever to this head.

Sound guy confirmed to me that the DI out had the best sound that I have given him--ever. I had it on pre-eq, grounded, and "mic" rather than "line-level". It is excellent that GB has provided three different external switches for the DI-out. Much better than the LMII.

Over the last couple years, I have shown up with: a Traynor YBA200, a Fender 300 pro tube amp, various rack power amps/tube and non-tube preamp configurations, Markbass LMII, Roland bass 100, and this was the first time everyone raved about the sound I was getting. Comments were that it was a full sound--especially at the lowend but not boomy.

My low E which often is underpowered was strong--even with flat EQ settings. Punchy (not saggy) is how I guess I'd describe it. No need for a compressor--also seems like one is built-in. Most even sound I've ever had. I kept pushing the guys to end our breaks early snd get back on stage.

compared to the LMII

--lighter--which for me means a lighter rack
--seemed more powerful especially in keeping punch at the lowend
--more organic tone---it has tube--but the LMII is warm too--this one seems warmer---the LMII maybe more prescise but barely perceptable
--better input-output options and especially the DI out
--mute button--important to me
--knobs have detents which means they are more likely to remain in the exact position you left them
--does not look like a bumblebee
--better indicators (it has them) but the little lights are some of the brightest I've seen
---sorry I can't comment on the EQ so much because with the exception of rolling off treble--I had no need to adjust anything else
---better service method (does not rely on GC) and as I can attest--just outstanding---I'm wearing the shirt they sent me as we speak--they sent a cap too :hyper:

I do wish the on/off switch was in front though.

I am very happy I returned the LMII and purchased this. No more watching the thread and worrying about the GC/Markbass "service" plans.


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gigged last night--The Shuttle 6.0 was absolutely fantastic.

The preamp doesn't overdrive all that much with "my" passive bass. I imagine if you have an active bass or use any type of pedal that can increase the input---you will be able to get overdrive all the way into fullblown grind.

For me it was enough, I could get some breakup by digging in. That being said, it would be nice to have a little button so I could get full-blown overdrive with a passive. The overdrive that I got though was very smooth.

The next question I will be exploring is whether you could replace the pre tube with one that had higher gain. I can't remember off-hand what the next step up in gain from a 12AX7 is but I'm pretty sure the 12AX7 isn't the most gain you can get in a pre-tube. The question to get answered before that is whether that voids your warranty or provides any risk whatsoever to this head.

Actually, I believe you want a tube with less gain, not more to get faster break-up. The more gain a tube has, the more input level it can can take while staying linear. The less gain, the less input is necessary to overdrive it into the non-linear or distorted region of its characteristic. I believe the tube you want for that is a 5751.
 
one of the online store said this.....

"""The gain factor of a tube simply measures how much it amplifies the input signal. For example, the common 12AX7 type has a gain factor of 100, while a 5751 (which is often used in place of a 12AX7) has a gain factor of 70. This means that if you plug a 5751 into a socket that expects a 12AX7, the pre-amp will have about 30% less gain. Not only will this make the amp quieter,.""""

I can confirm that going with less gain means less drive because I did just that with a YBA200. Since the 12AX7 that's used here has a factor of 100--it may already be maxed out and there is no tube over 100 which I think is what I would need to get more distortion. Can anyone confirm this?


""I don't know how to tell you this but the on/off switch is in the front. All the eq and volume knobs are in the back. """ Ahh--so I have the head in backwards :)

seriously---is there any problem using a power strip to turn it on and off?
 
I don't know how to tell you this but the on/off switch is in the front. All the eq and volume knobs are in the back.

:eek:

israel-125year-old-man-laughing.jpg
 
one of the online store said this.....

"""The gain factor of a tube simply measures how much it amplifies the input signal. For example, the common 12AX7 type has a gain factor of 100, while a 5751 (which is often used in place of a 12AX7) has a gain factor of 70. This means that if you plug a 5751 into a socket that expects a 12AX7, the pre-amp will have about 30% less gain. Not only will this make the amp quieter,.""""

I can confirm that going with less gain means less drive because I did just that with a YBA200. Since the 12AX7 that's used here has a factor of 100--it may already be maxed out and there is no tube over 100 which I think is what I would need to get more distortion. Can anyone confirm this?


""I don't know how to tell you this but the on/off switch is in the front. All the eq and volume knobs are in the back. """ Ahh--so I have the head in backwards :)

seriously---is there any problem using a power strip to turn it on and off?

No problem. I don't know how your rigged up- maybe you want to turn things down before your turn the strip off in case loud pops get sent to your speaker.

BTW- I run a stereo rig complete with a DBX166XL, Roland loop station, Line6 Delay modeller...two amps obviously. I turn it all on and off with a power strip.
 
sure--

I'm in the habit of using the mute and turning down the main volume, before turning an amp on or off---if it's got one that is.

thanks

PS--my research indicates the 12ax7 is the highest gain pre tube. So the only choice (for higher gain with a passive guitar) seems to be selecting certain NOS or other tubes that are also 12ax7 (or ECC83) but may have slight differences in gain characteristics.

Did you GB guys do any tube rolling with this amp?
 
sure--

I'm in the habit of using the mute and turning down the main volume, before turning an amp on or off---if it's got one that is.

thanks

PS--my research indicates the 12ax7 is the highest gain pre tube. So the only choice (for higher gain with a passive guitar) seems to be selecting certain NOS or other tubes that are also 12ax7 (or ECC83) but may have slight differences in gain characteristics.

Did you GB guys do any tube rolling with this amp?

not with the Shuttle yet but I have with the NeoPak which has the same pre. It didn't seem to matter much either way. If you really want this thing to distort, you can get there with the OEM tube...even with a passive bass.

Crank the tube gain and push some more low mids. Check out some of Ed Friedland's YouTubes. He does one with a passive J bass and he's really grinding the front end....Cliff Burton style.
 
Hey Hasbeen! I have an old GB500H, how would you compare the preamp and EQ section of this head with the Shuttle 6.0? Do you think the Shuttle could sound very clean and modern ala Marcus Miller? Thanks.
 
one of the online store said this.....

"""The gain factor of a tube simply measures how much it amplifies the input signal. For example, the common 12AX7 type has a gain factor of 100, while a 5751 (which is often used in place of a 12AX7) has a gain factor of 70. This means that if you plug a 5751 into a socket that expects a 12AX7, the pre-amp will have about 30% less gain. Not only will this make the amp quieter,.""""

I can confirm that going with less gain means less drive because I did just that with a YBA200. Since the 12AX7 that's used here has a factor of 100--it may already be maxed out and there is no tube over 100 which I think is what I would need to get more distortion. Can anyone confirm this?


""I don't know how to tell you this but the on/off switch is in the front. All the eq and volume knobs are in the back. """ Ahh--so I have the head in backwards :)

seriously---is there any problem using a power strip to turn it on and off?
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood the problem. The lower the gain, the easier it is to get break up at lower signal levels. What this means is you don't have to gain up the tube channel output as much to get more grit. So if you are maxing out the tube drive and channel volume (i.e. getting to the point of overdriving the EQ and power sections), and only getting a less than desirable amount of grit, you can use the 5751 that will lower the gain of the tube channel overall. This will allow you to overdrive the tube harder without also getting too much signal into the EQ and power sections. This means you can get more grit from the tube (i.e. you can overdrive it harder) before you max out the volume on the amp.

Because you have two volumes, it will not make the amp quieter overall, as you can make up for the lower gain of the tube with the tube and main volumes of the amp.

The ultimate result is the opportunity to get MORE grit at the same output volume.

Here's a quote on the 5751 from the tube depot:

One of Stevie Ray Vaughn’s favorite tubes was the 5751 preamp tube. With 30% less amplification than a 12AX7, but 100% interchangeable, an amp using the 5751 preamp tube creates a creamier and smoother tone than with a 12AX7. If your amp has too much gain, the 5751 is the perfect choice to "calm" the amp down and get more break-up without all the volume. We prefer the U.S. made JAN 5751 over any other 5751 available.
 
The tube's gain is not as wide ranging in our preamp because the circuit was designed for minimum microphonics (extremely important for a bass combo), a tight quick feel with a moderate amount of warmth. This means that some of the available gain is degenerated and "normalized" so wide performance differences between individual tubes do not cause performance problems.
 
i really enjoyed listening and watching Ed Friedlands videos... he is a great educator and player..
not with the Shuttle yet but I have with the NeoPak which has the same pre. It didn't seem to matter much either way. If you really want this thing to distort, you can get there with the OEM tube...even with a passive bass.

Crank the tube gain and push some more low mids. Check out some of Ed Friedland's YouTubes. He does one with a passive J bass and he's really grinding the front end....Cliff Burton style.
 
OK, I played the Shuttle 3.08T last night in a 2500 seat auditorium with my praise band. First off, I have worked with the sound man a lot and he asked where my usual rig was... and "what is that little thing?" His mouth fell open when I hit the first lick to show him. Ran the entire show and he had nothing but praise for the shuttle... clean DI, crisp sound, plenty of stage volume but not overpowering... and at 13 Lbs, well let's just say..
it was GREAT!!!!!
 
I have played various gigs with the Shuttle 3.0 - 10T and am going to get it for my one and only amp. Obviously, it is great for home practice and rehearsals. It also works great fo rmy jazz trio type gigs. I also used it for a my 4 piece rock cover band gigs as a stage monitor - we have PA support - and it was plenty. At 18 unds and not much more than a cubic foot, how canyou go wrong.

I am waiting to try a Shuttle 6.0 - 210T, but I don't know if I will need the extra power and if I can save $500, that's great, too.
 
Question to 6.0 owners:

I read in many reviews and seen on some pics that you guys use your amps not only for gigs and rehearsals but for home practicing too. Is this head not to MUCH loud for that? Does this amp plugged into some small 10" 8ohm cab suits well the moderate level bedroom practicing on minimal pre and master volumes?
 
The tube's gain is not as wide ranging in our preamp because the circuit was designed for minimum microphonics (extremely important for a bass combo), a tight quick feel with a moderate amount of warmth. This means that some of the available gain is degenerated and "normalized" so wide performance differences between individual tubes do not cause performance problems.
IMHO, the G-B tube front end is not intended to generate a broad range of tube overdrive and distortion, just to add a small amount of tube warmth to the sound.

So, the solution for those of you who want a lot of variety of tube sounds from your Neo-Pak, or Shuttle 6.0, head is to front it with a tube unit such as an EBS Valvedrive, a Mesa V-Twin, or the Seymour Twin Tube Classic. This would give you a whole lot of tube sound options, plus it would feed your DI pre-out with tube sound.

Is anyone doing this currently?
 
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