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Genz-Benz Shuttle Megathread

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#881
Lemon said:
Well you really think it is possible that the shop takes it back and even refunds me ?

I dont think so..
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Lemon said:
excuse me but thats Bull, Ghost notes from a tube, are you kidding ?
I have a amp with no microphonics, its running on 260 volts.
It sounds very good and its has amazing dynamics.
other amps with tubes i tryed where not even close.

With the cirquit you can influence how the tube behaves, but the voltage is simlipifed like the rail power on a class D amp, if the power is low less comes out - dynamics.
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How about this. Try the amp or don't. It is really that simple.

Use your ears and not yours eyes. Feel your music instead of reading about it in a manual.

Just get one and try it. It may or may not be for you but instead of trying to determine if it is a good amp by reading the specs let you ears be the judge.

If you can't get one for whatever reason, then enjoy what you have.

You could talk me in circle technically but I will tell you something, where it matters (on stage, live situation) these GB amps sound amazing and deliver. Shouldn't that be the real measure?

Of course, this is just my opinion. :rolleyes:
 
#887
Purely for inforamtional/educational purposes, here's how a tube preamp works and how some design parameters are chosen to suit specific applications. Bass amplifiers, especially those used in combos and sitting on top of a speaker cabinet are a somewhat special case since vibration from the speaker is pretty efficiently coupled back to the amp's chassis.

Amplification on a traditional voltage amp stage is caused when a (small) varying voltage on the control grid causes variation in the electron stream between the anode and cathode (cathode to anode for you Brits) resulting in a (large) varying voltage across a resistor placed in the anode circuit. It's pretty simple in concept but with a lot of variables. The point is that the control grid is in the path of the steady electron stream and it's electric field causes varying degrees of repulsion, decreasing or increasing the magnitude/acceleration of the electron stream.

Microphonics are caused by a couple of things, first is the purely mechanical noise due to the mica insulators not fitting tightly within the envelope, and the heater filiments vibrating within the anode shell (indirectly heated). These two causes are not directly affected by the circuit design but are influenced by the mechanical design/support of the tube itself.

The other major cause is due to movement of the grid wires themselves, and this motion translates to electrical signal as they vibrate within the electron stream, acting as a mechanical control signal. The amount of influence on the electron stream is due to the grid temperature (hotter grid causes more slack in the wires from expansion), the overall voltage gain, and the applied voltage. Some are linear relationships and others are exponential.

Ghost notes are audio artifacts that are related to the speaker vibration picked up by a microphonic tube and design, that gets added to the original signal. It's musically related but not musically desired. Ghost notes can also be generated electrically by the unintentional modulation of the (normally) clean power supply or ground paths with the load currents. Again, the artifact is musically related but not musically desired. The artifact sounds like a low level note under the desired sound.

A knowledgable engineer will consider these vibration's effect on a tube, and design their circuitry to avoid these problems within the context of the overall design. There are many ways to design a tube amplification stages, I have my preferred ways, but so does every other engineer. That's what makes one product desireable to one player and a different product desireable to another player.

If every amp sounded the same, how interesting would that be?
 
#888
Andy,

Good stuff. I've heard ghost notes from a quirky tube head before, and I wanted to respond to Lemon on what I heard, but I knew you'd come back with something much better than what I might say. I always enjoy your posts.

Even with the cautions many MFG's take, do you think there's any benefit (perhaps a marginally longer life on the PCB for example) in putting some foam underneath one's head? I know a lot of folks do this, but I wouldn't want to haul another thing around if it didn't really make a difference.
 
#889
Eublet said:
Even with the cautions many MFG's take, do you think there's any benefit (perhaps a marginally longer life on the PCB for example) in putting some foam underneath one's head? I know a lot of folks do this, but I wouldn't want to haul another thing around if it didn't really make a difference.
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Yes, it can make some difference, but maybe more with some products than another. One big reason is as an attempt to reduce the effects of microphonics when the product is not designed to minimize the effect, or with a tube that is more suseptable to microphonics.

There is quite a large variation within a group of say 100 tubes. Some will be very quiet and others more microphonic. Some may be so microphonic as to be unuseable.
 
#890
opinions are like a*******... everyone has got one.

Personally, the 6.0 works perfect for me. So much I'm selling my GBE 750. To me when buying an amp, the only thing that matters is how my bass sounds to an audience and the band. I prefer, "Wow, the bass sat perfect in the mix and awesome tone", not, "what's up with your bass? sounds crappy"

Since I don't use an amp for recording as long as it meets the above requirements...I'm on the good.

Try the 6.0.. you will see what I mean.
 
#891
Well, I did it. Found another store that has the Shuttles, drove down to check it out. Sure nuff, it is sweet. I had it plugged into an AccuGroove Tri12L, and compared it with the Mesa Boogie Walkabout head. I brought mine along just in case a trade-in deal came up.

I decided to buy it, and haggled a bit over the trade-in value of the Walkabout. That was fairly easy, since I bought that amp at the same store, and they promise all kinds of "trade-up value". In this case, price-tag-wise, it is a trade-down, but still I'm happy over the result. Came out spending a little, but not all that much, and I'm now in the Genz Benz Shuttle Club!

First play at home, and it is a winner. The Whappo Jr thunders. Of course it thundered with the Walkabout too, but there's a stronger sense of depth, and a lot more punch and definition. I like! :hyper:
 
#892
did you go to Gelb by any chance?

fretster said:
Well, I did it. Found another store that has the Shuttles, drove down to check it out. Sure nuff, it is sweet. I had it plugged into an AccuGroove Tri12L, and compared it with the Mesa Boogie Walkabout head. I brought mine along just in case a trade-in deal came up.

I decided to buy it, and haggled a bit over the trade-in value of the Walkabout. That was fairly easy, since I bought that amp at the same store, and they promise all kinds of "trade-up value". In this case, price-tag-wise, it is a trade-down, but still I'm happy over the result. Came out spending a little, but not all that much, and I'm now in the Genz Benz Shuttle Club!

First play at home, and it is a winner. The Whappo Jr thunders. Of course it thundered with the Walkabout too, but there's a stronger sense of depth, and a lot more punch and definition. I like! :hyper:
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#899
img_0083.jpg
 
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