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Genz Benz Streamliner, Part 10

#821
danyosound said:
I guess I'm the newest member of the Genz Benz Streamliner 600 club.

So far (got it today) I've only had the opportunity to use it as a pre-amp to power a QSC K10, which I used as bass amp before (I'm really a guitarist). I'll have to test the "face-melt" potential later.

My Gear
I'm playing a Hagstrom HB4 and a Schecter Hellcat VI with bunch of guitar gadgets (dirt, boost, modulation, delay, reverb) and I'll eventually get to use the STR-600 with my SWR Workingman's 410 at 8 ohms, and MAYBE a Carvin PB115 at 8 ohms.

My Style
I play postpunk stuff. I love chorus on bass (go ahead, mock me!) and a little overdrive and fuzz too, as long as I don't lose low end (I'm thinking an MXR Bass Fuzz Deluxe would do a better job than my lovely Wren and Cuff Box of War). I don't slap or play funk. I like the bass lines in Tones on Tail, and maybe a little Peter Hookish stuff with the Hellcat VI.

Sonic Goals
I want to cut-through and provide plenty of low-end without enshrouding my fellow musicians in low frequencies: to provide the proper place in the mix in a variety of venues.
I figure that 375/600 watts is more than enough to cover venues from the Troubadour to Satellite (Hollywood represent)--surely I'm mistaken.

Cabs
All the cabinet suggestions scare me. I've read lots about not mixing speaker sizes, driver sizes, and a bunch of other stuff I don't understand. I weigh 120 pounds, so I'm thinking about selling the SWR 410 (100 pounds) for some neos. "Looks" are more important for my band than for me, and they would prefer I play Ampeg. I think 2 or 3 210s stacked vertically looks rather sexy, and they would have that Grateful Dead tall-stack appeal, but you and I (you know who you are), we're poor. We've read that Avatar 210s neos are great, but they are less efficient than GB Neox210s. And yet, the idea of a 6x8 cab kind of excites me, but I'm dumb when it comes to cabs, and the pairing of cabs with cabs, and cabs with amps. I'm also weary of "whatever sounds good to you" bro science, especially since what sounds good to when I'm standing in front of the amp is not what would sound good to me standing amongst a room full of people in a crowded venue. And then back to that issue of efficiency: does efficiency necessarily sound better? Or to put it another way, might inefficiency (on some level) help break through? Might an inefficient 810 cab perform better than an efficient 210 cab? I'm dangerously toeing the line between acoustics and subjectivity, but I suppose we all do that.

I feel like what would work best for me is one 410 cab and one 210 cab. That way I can have 610s (which I think would be sufficient) with a 210 cab for rehearsals: all neo, if possible (remember, I weight 120 pounds!).
If both are rated at 8 ohms, does that mean I can't push the volume, since I would assume that maybe too much power would be fed to the 210?
(It depends on the power-handling of the 210, of course!)

So we're back to brands and deals: suggestions for excellent neodymium speaker cabs at piss-poor prices for STR-600s?

Danyo
Click to expand...

I highly recommend a Genz NeoX 212T with a Streamliner. It is a 4 ohm cab that is rated at 600 watts and only weighs in at just over 50lbs. I use one with my Streamliner 900 and it is a great match. There is a newer version of this cab also that would also be a great match. You can find them on the used market for around 450 or so. There are other cabs that people have reported great success with but the NeoX is the only one I have experience with. Prior to this I was using a Hartke HyDrive 410. It is an 8ohm Cab with a 1000 watt rating. Though I liked it ok it just didn't seem to give me what I was looking for with the Streamliner. It is reasonably light for a 410 at 72lbs and they can be had used for under 400.00.

Good Luck and welcome aboard!
 
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#822
TinIndian said:
The guy you need to talk to is Agedhorse. He is the designer of the amp and a regular on any Genz thread. He works for MESA now but he does service Genz heads still and is as helpful and great a resource as you could ever want.
My guess is he'll probably chime in himself but go ahead and shoot him a PM. He will help.
Click to expand...

Indeed and thanks ! He reached out and told me to PM him, which I did. Hopefully he can walk me through some at home trouble shooting first.

I am well clear that he is doing we Genz owners a great courtesy !
 
#823
agedhorse said:
The headphone output is for headphones only, do not connect it to anything else. This is why the manual says this.
Click to expand...

Thak you Agedhorse for your answer. So what options do i have to send a second signal?

- Send to my mixing desk throught the tuner output or the FX send output (the DI out is going to the main front mixing console);
- Get a DI box and leave the amp at home?

I made a quick sketch of the connections i'm thinking to do. :)

stage.jpg
 
Last edited:
#824
VrumVrum said:
Thak you Agedhorse for your answer. So what options do i have to send a second signal?

- Send to my mixing desk throught the tuner output or the FX send output (the DI out is going to the main front mixing console);
- Get a DI box and leave the amp at home?

Regards
Marco
Click to expand...

Marco,

Why not go bass> DI (one DI signal to amp input one to board)>amp>amp DI to board two.

Or just use amp DI to one of the boards and the thrus on your board to send to the other board?
 
Last edited:
#825
danyosound said:
I guess I'm the newest member of the Genz Benz Streamliner 600 club.

So far (got it today) I've only had the opportunity to use it as a pre-amp to power a QSC K10, which I used as bass amp before (I'm really a guitarist). I'll have to test the "face-melt" potential later.

My Gear
I'm playing a Hagstrom HB4 and a Schecter Hellcat VI with bunch of guitar gadgets (dirt, boost, modulation, delay, reverb) and I'll eventually get to use the STR-600 with my SWR Workingman's 410 at 8 ohms, and MAYBE a Carvin PB115 at 8 ohms.

My Style
I play postpunk stuff. I love chorus on bass (go ahead, mock me!) and a little overdrive and fuzz too, as long as I don't lose low end (I'm thinking an MXR Bass Fuzz Deluxe would do a better job than my lovely Wren and Cuff Box of War). I don't slap or play funk. I like the bass lines in Tones on Tail, and maybe a little Peter Hookish stuff with the Hellcat VI.

Sonic Goals
I want to cut-through and provide plenty of low-end without enshrouding my fellow musicians in low frequencies: to provide the proper place in the mix in a variety of venues.
I figure that 375/600 watts is more than enough to cover venues from the Troubadour to Satellite (Hollywood represent)--surely I'm mistaken.

Cabs
All the cabinet suggestions scare me. I've read lots about not mixing speaker sizes, driver sizes, and a bunch of other stuff I don't understand. I weigh 120 pounds, so I'm thinking about selling the SWR 410 (100 pounds) for some neos. "Looks" are more important for my band than for me, and they would prefer I play Ampeg. I think 2 or 3 210s stacked vertically looks rather sexy, and they would have that Grateful Dead tall-stack appeal, but you and I (you know who you are), we're poor. We've read that Avatar 210s neos are great, but they are less efficient than GB Neox210s. And yet, the idea of a 6x8 cab kind of excites me, but I'm dumb when it comes to cabs, and the pairing of cabs with cabs, and cabs with amps. I'm also weary of "whatever sounds good to you" bro science, especially since what sounds good to when I'm standing in front of the amp is not what would sound good to me standing amongst a room full of people in a crowded venue. And then back to that issue of efficiency: does efficiency necessarily sound better? Or to put it another way, might inefficiency (on some level) help break through? Might an inefficient 810 cab perform better than an efficient 210 cab? I'm dangerously toeing the line between acoustics and subjectivity, but I suppose we all do that.

I feel like what would work best for me is one 410 cab and one 210 cab. That way I can have 610s (which I think would be sufficient) with a 210 cab for rehearsals: all neo, if possible (remember, I weight 120 pounds!).
If both are rated at 8 ohms, does that mean I can't push the volume, since I would assume that maybe too much power would be fed to the 210?
(It depends on the power-handling of the 210, of course!)

So we're back to brands and deals: suggestions for excellent neodymium speaker cabs at piss-poor prices for STR-600s?

Danyo
Click to expand...

I'm a big fan of the Bergantino AE410 can with my Streamliner 900 and Shuttlemax 9.2. I play a variety of styles and always get compliments on my sound with either head and the Berg Cab.
 
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#826
Texan said:
Marco,

Why not go bass> DI (one DI signal to amp input one to board)>amp>amp DI to board two.

Or just use amp DI to one of the boards and the thrus on your board to send to the other board?
Click to expand...

Texan,
I have made a sketch of what i was thinking. The thing is that in this mode i don't have to buy anything. Just connect :)
I look if i use the efx send to my mixer, i can get the eq of the amp and let the mixer flat. I want to use this as a way to mix my own sound as a backline (since the intention is to leave the cabs at home and clean the stage) and balance with the monition of all the other instruments. ;)
 
#828
VrumVrum said:
Thak you Agedhorse for your answer. So what options do i have to send a second signal?

- Send to my mixing desk throught the tuner output or the FX send output (the DI out is going to the main front mixing console);
- Get a DI box and leave the amp at home?

I made a quick sketch of the connections i'm thinking to do. :)

View attachment 482428
Click to expand...

I don't understand why not just have the FOH board send you a mix that is "bass heavy" for your IEMs? If there is no dedicated mix for you and you're going to take a feed off a stage monitor that may not sound very good in your ears and then on top of it you're going to try and pull a signal from the effects send and layer that on top? Have you listened to what your bass sounds like from the tuner out or effects send into that board and than into a set of headphones?

If the option of getting a good monitor mix is not an option it may not be the right time for IEMs
 
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#829
peterpalmieri said:
I don't understand why not just have the FOH board send you a mix that is "bass heavy" for your IEMs? If there is no dedicated mix for you and you're going to take a feed off a stage monitor that may not sound very good in your ears and then on top of it you're going to try and pull a signal from the effects send and layer that on top? Have you listened to what your bass sounds like from the tuner out or effects send into that board and than into a set of headphones?

If the option of getting a good monitor mix is not an option it may not be the right time for IEMs
Click to expand...

Agreed. Is everyone getting their IEM mix from the same channel? I have always had my own mix for my ears and it is completely different from everyone else's. Does your board not support multiple monitor channels?
 
#830
Hi all,
The problem is that is almost impossible to distribute an individual iem for each one. Basically in the multicore stage box exist the inputs and all them are y splitters with output. And them are connected to a stage mixer. But that stag mixer just have 1 exit to the floor monitors. Thats why i am thinking of using that type of connection. My own sound and the mi of all. If exist some type of dismatch sound will be propably a few miliseconds.
At home i se the similar connection. Plug the bass to my mixer and my pc to an input and practise. The diference is that will be the mix of all my stage mates :)
 
#831
TinIndian said:
I highly recommend a Genz NeoX 212T with a Streamliner. It is a 4 ohm cab that is rated at 600 watts and only weighs in at just over 50lbs. I use one with my Streamliner 900 and it is a great match. There is a newer version of this cab also that would also be a great match. You can find them on the used market for around 450 or so. There are other cabs that people have reported great success with but the NeoX is the only one I have experience with. Prior to this I was using a Hartke HyDrive 410. It is an 8ohm Cab with a 1000 watt rating. Though I liked it ok it just didn't seem to give me what I was looking for with the Streamliner. It is reasonably light for a 410 at 72lbs and they can be had used for under 400.00.

Good Luck and welcome aboard!
Click to expand...

I've heard wonderful things about these NeoX 212s, but I'm nervous about them. I'm really more interested in 10" speakers, but I would consider 8" speakers. I was thinking about getting an SWR Henry Jr 4x8, but now I'm looking at Low Down Sound 4x8 (how much are those LDS cabs anyway?). I'm just learning about this stuff now, so as I mentioned in my tome above, I really know nothing and I'm trying to play catch-up to you low frequency experts.

Would a pair of 4x8 cabs work well with an STR-600? Would I have enough of bass response (for someone who has favored 10s)?

Danyo
 
#833
danyosound said:
I've heard wonderful things about these NeoX 212s, but I'm nervous about them. I'm really more interested in 10" speakers, but I would consider 8" speakers. I was thinking about getting an SWR Henry Jr 4x8, but now I'm looking at Low Down Sound 4x8 (how much are those LDS cabs anyway?). I'm just learning about this stuff now, so as I mentioned in my tome above, I really know nothing and I'm trying to play catch-up to you low frequency experts.

Would a pair of 4x8 cabs work well with an STR-600? Would I have enough of bass response (for someone who has favored 10s)?

Danyo
Click to expand...


12's sound great. Nothing to be nervous about. I use My STL 900 with Schroeder Cabs, the Neo versions of the 212PL (38 lbs) and the 15PL (32 lbs i think?). I could get by on most gigs the with 212 alone, but i really like the added rumble from the 15. 2 of the 212's stacked vertically would kill. I know there will be people screaming about mixing speaker sizes, but this rig works just fine for me. They may be out of your price range, but used Schroeders do come up every now and then, and Jorg usually has some demos or used cabs on his site.
 
#834
I wouldn't recommend handling the monitor mix that way, but I come from the pro audio world where lash-up jury rigs can cost us a job.

If you are going to mix and match, I would take the tuner out (pre eq) into a passive DI and into your mixer's XLR input. That way you have a way to ground lift if necessary. If you use the effects send (preamp out), this is post eq, and I am not generally a fan of post eq feeds for monitors as they (your in ears) will have a greatly different response than your bass cabinet and if you eq for your cabinet the signal may not be quite as IEM friendly.
 
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#835
danyosound said:
I've heard wonderful things about these NeoX 212s, but I'm nervous about them. I'm really more interested in 10" speakers, but I would consider 8" speakers. I was thinking about getting an SWR Henry Jr 4x8, but now I'm looking at Low Down Sound 4x8 (how much are those LDS cabs anyway?). I'm just learning about this stuff now, so as I mentioned in my tome above, I really know nothing and I'm trying to play catch-up to you low frequency experts.

Would a pair of 4x8 cabs work well with an STR-600? Would I have enough of bass response (for someone who has favored 10s)?

Danyo
Click to expand...
I have used multiple 12"cabs with the 900 and you cannot go wrong. Had a Genz Uber 2-12, an LDS 2-12. Now using a pair of Baer 12-6 cabs. DOn't feel like you need to stay in the 10 or 8 world. If you have a chance try one - you won't loook back!
 
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#836
Hello again.
Agedhorse, thank you for your help and tips.
The question to do this is to take out the cabs from the amp and use it as a simple DI, and the IEM will work together like the cabs.

Well, it looks like also that i'm complicating a simple thing. Already exist on the market something similar that im thinking of. Its the Rolls PM50s.
Probably is what im need, but instead of enter a mic, will be the DI out or a second signal from the Tuner out or EFX send, or am i tell something wrong and stupid?
 
#837
VrumVrum said:
Hello again.
Agedhorse, thank you for your help and tips.
The question to do this is to take out the cabs from the amp and use it as a simple DI, and the IEM will work together like the cabs.

Well, it looks like also that i'm complicating a simple thing. Already exist on the market something similar that im thinking of. Its the Rolls PM50s.
Probably is what im need, but instead of enter a mic, will be the DI out or a second signal from the Tuner out or EFX send, or am i tell something wrong and stupid?
Click to expand...

What everyone is saying is the amp thing isn't the big deal and there are inexpensive ways to split the DI signal. That being said the problem is the entire band trying to share a single monitor mix for IEMs. It's going to be next to impossible to get something everyone will be comfortable with. Unless you are playing in a group with just an acoustic guitar and singer this is destined for failure.

I don't mean to put your efforts down but what your doing generally doesn't work out well. But it seems clear you are going to go for it regardless so good luck.
 

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