Genz Benz Streamliner Pt 7.....

[sratas]

HI to all, in the long process of testing-discovering my new amp I found something that I never seen reported here.
The novel is this: try the amp with the EQ "mid" knob at noon and play a certain note on the bass. Now continue to play/pluck the same note, in a steady manner, and change the center mid frequency between 220, 600, and 2.5...do you notice something? If you listen carefully (or if you record), you will notice that the "basic" tone of the amp changes quite dramatically, even with no boost or cut of the mids. For me this is a curious thing, in fact I expected, in theory, that if you leave the gain knob at noon, there was no boost or cut in the midrange, so there would be no differencies depending upon the position of the mid frequency selector. This is not true with the STM. The midrange colour seems to vary accordingly with the mid freq selector. Moreover, a careful listening reveals that the 2.5 k position feels much more scooped in the center mids that the others.
With a bit of fantasy, we could say that the STM is almost 3 amps in one. 3 sounds that you can further manipulate acting on the EQ knobs. Once discovered this "trick", it has taken few minutes to find wich one setting suited best every bass I own...cool

 

[lomo]

The eq is very interactive, but I never thought that meant it would react as you describe.

HI to all, in the long process of testing-discovering my new amp I found something that I never seen reported here.
The novel is this: try the amp with the EQ "mid" knob at noon and play a certain note on the bass. Now continue to play/pluck the same note, in a steady manner, and change the center mid frequency between 220, 600, and 2.5...do you notice something? If you listen carefully (or if you record), you will notice that the "basic" tone of the amp changes quite dramatically, even with no boost or cut of the mids. For me this is a curious thing, in fact I expected, in theory, that if you leave the gain knob at noon, there was no boost or cut in the midrange, so there would be no differencies depending upon the position of the mid frequency selector. This is not true with the STM. The midrange colour seems to vary accordingly with the mid freq selector. Moreover, a careful listening reveals that the 2.5 k position feels much more scooped in the center mids that the others.
With a bit of fantasy, we could say that the STM is almost 3 amps in one. 3 sounds that you can further manipulate acting on the EQ knobs. Once discovered this "trick", it has taken few minutes to find wich one setting suited best every bass I own...cool

 

[Joe Smithberger]

I have noticed that as well. It's subtle, but it's there.

BTW I have started a new thread to discuss the tube rolling stuff if anyone wants to throw in. I will leave it up to individuals who have posted here to Quote previously posted experiences.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/genz-benz-streamliner-tube-rolling-796088/#post11294670

 

[KJung]

HI to all, in the long process of testing-discovering my new amp I found something that I never seen reported here.
The novel is this: try the amp with the EQ "mid" knob at noon and play a certain note on the bass. Now continue to play/pluck the same note, in a steady manner, and change the center mid frequency between 220, 600, and 2.5...do you notice something? If you listen carefully (or if you record), you will notice that the "basic" tone of the amp changes quite dramatically, even with no boost or cut of the mids. For me this is a curious thing, in fact I expected, in theory, that if you leave the gain knob at noon, there was no boost or cut in the midrange, so there would be no differencies depending upon the position of the mid frequency selector. This is not true with the STM. The midrange colour seems to vary accordingly with the mid freq selector. Moreover, a careful listening reveals that the 2.5 k position feels much more scooped in the center mids that the others.
With a bit of fantasy, we could say that the STM is almost 3 amps in one. 3 sounds that you can further manipulate acting on the EQ knobs. Once discovered this "trick", it has taken few minutes to find wich one setting suited best every bass I own...cool

My guess would be, since there are no 'center detents' on the EQ knobs, that the mid level control might not be neutral at the noon setting. Being slightly to either side (or I guess even at absolute noon, depending on how the pot was installed) might add just enough boost or cut to explain what you are hearing.

 

[adivin]

I knew this but just assumed it was normal. Never gave it much thought.

 

[Blues Cat]

My guess would be, since there are no 'center detents' on the EQ knobs, that the mid level control might not be neutral at the noon setting. Being slightly to either side (or I guess even at absolute noon, depending on how the pot was installed) might add just enough boost or cut to explain what you are hearing.

This could be true KJung. I'm sure Aged Horse will come along and tell us what's going on.

On my old SWR Red face 350 pre Fender some of the center detents were actually @ anywhere from 11:30 to 12:30.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

My guess would be, since there are no 'center detents' on the EQ knobs, that the mid level control might not be neutral at the noon setting.

Makes sense to me. I bench tested my SL900 shortly after buying it, and found that it had a fairly hefty mid scoop. It took a substantial mid boost at 600Hz AND a bass cut, in order to get it to measure pretty much flat.

So it would make sense that you could hear the shift in that preset mid-scoop, when you change the center frequency with the mid control at noon.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I originally questioned the amount of pre-shape on the Streamliner, but I'm starting to understand it better.

I went to a rehearsal on Thursday night, without enough cabinet (took a single Flite 103W), and had to elevate my cab in order to hear myself properly. The loss of low end with the cab raised, forced me to run the bass control at noon, instead of my normal setting with a pair of these cabs stacked (9:00 o'clock). After 15 years with these hefty-sounding little cabs, I tend to forget about the wide range of low end extension available from other cabinets, as well as the broad differences in people's tastes.

I shall be curious to see where I end up running the bass control when my Audiokinesis Thunderchild (acoustic version) arrives...

 

[Matt Wilson]

I put the 5814a in V1 and I'm liking the difference quite a bit.

I've heard people are putting them in V2 as well?

Can anyone describe the difference? I've only got one.

I'm thinking do that and put the JJ 12ax7 in V3, and be good to go. Red Planet, JohnK, anybody - help a tube rollin' newbie.

 

[KJung]

Makes sense to me. I bench tested my SL900 shortly after buying it, and found that it had a fairly hefty mid scoop. It took a substantial mid boost at 600Hz AND a bass cut, in order to get it to measure pretty much flat.

So it would make sense that you could hear the shift in that preset mid-scoop, when you change the center frequency with the mid control at noon.

+1 My standard 'starting' EQ for most cabs is bass at around 11 and mids set at 600 at around 2 o'clock.

With the Thunderchild, bass at noon, and upper mids (2.6 or whatever) boosted to 1 o'clock ( of course, depending on bass and room)

 

[sratas]

Yes Ken, I took into consideration even this possibility, it could be true.

My guess would be, since there are no 'center detents' on the EQ knobs, that the mid level control might not be neutral at the noon setting. Being slightly to either side (or I guess even at absolute noon, depending on how the pot was installed) might add just enough boost or cut to explain what you are hearing.

 

[sratas]

yesterday night I had a large and loud outdoor gig, a jan session with an electronic drum kit, 2-3 guitars (even at one time), synths, piano, voice, my bass. Took the STM900 with two Bergantino AE210 vertically stacked. The gig had PA support (3200 watts) but we used it only for voice, drum, keys. Me and the guitars went with no PA support. The STM, used with my mayones, performed wonderfully. The EQ was bass on 10, mid on 1 at 2.5 or 600 depending on tunes, treble at 1. Honestly, this is the absolute first loud complex gig for the STM, and I can say that I had no problems with cutting and so on. My bass was supporting the large venue without effort, even if sometimes the "peak" lead flashed slightly on the loudest notes (but i tend to go for a predictable touch). Also, at the front and sides of the venue, the mates that were resting between one gig and the other, commented how good, intelligible and juicy the bass sounded. A success...

 

[agedhorse]

With the mid control centered, you end up with the Streamliner's default voicing. There is no true (or absolute) flat as it's modeled after (some) traditional tube voicings.

 

[adivin]

Does anyone cut the mids on the STM? Does anyone boost the bass for that matter? Just curious. I'm starting to experiment with eq settings that are different then the typical bass at 11, mids at 2. Someone said mid boost at 2.5 sounds more scooped, so a 2.5 cut should be the opposite.

I think Agedhorse posted early on that he got a fat sound with eq settings that were not so typical.

 

[Musicman20]

Well Ive had some great fun with the SL900. I still thinks its EXCELLENT, and not overly expensive.

The tone is great, and tube-like tone is amazing, and the EQ is pretty cool.

But, at the moment, I have three amps, and they are all aimed at a more 'vintage/tube/rock' type tone. I need something very quick, extremely clean, and a little less uncoloured. Im used to using totally solid state amps from my early days, so I need to satisfy that craving.

If I didnt have the other amps Id be keeping the STL 900, but its unfortunately going to have to go as I cant afford to have 4 amps at once! 3 is ridiculous as it is until my career kicks in.

Thanks for all the help on the thread, ill probably miss the amp, but right now I need something a little different.

 

[GRoberts]

Well Ive had some great fun with the SL900. I still thinks its EXCELLENT, and not overly expensive.

The tone is great, and tube-like tone is amazing, and the EQ is pretty cool.

But, at the moment, I have three amps, and they are all aimed at a more 'vintage/tube/rock' type tone. I need something very quick, extremely clean, and a little less uncoloured. Im used to using totally solid state amps from my early days, so I need to satisfy that craving.

If I didnt have the other amps Id be keeping the STL 900, but its unfortunately going to have to go as I cant afford to have 4 amps at once! 3 is ridiculous as it is until my career kicks in.

Thanks for all the help on the thread, ill probably miss the amp, but right now I need something a little different.

Curious what the other amps are that meet your favor more than the GB SL900?

 

[hensonbass]

Does anyone cut the mids on the STM? Does anyone boost the bass for that matter? Just curious. I'm starting to experiment with eq settings that are different then the typical bass at 11, mids at 2. Someone said mid boost at 2.5 sounds more scooped, so a 2.5 cut should be the opposite.

I think Agedhorse posted early on that he got a fat sound with eq settings that were not so typical.

I am cutting the mids at the 220 setting to around ten or eleven. I like that better than boosting in the 600 or 2.5 regions. Seems to control the bass build up at higher gain settings. I know I'm in the minority on this.

 

[sratas]

you are not alone. Sometimes I lower the 220 to keep the bass full but controlled, expecially with a bass with a big bottom in a problematic room. This has expecially proven to be useful to tame some boominess when playing in poor acoustic environments. You know, the range of frequencies between 100 and 200 can cause "boom" if they are reinforced by some external factor. Maybe a parametric eq centered at 150-160 Hz could be better, but 220 is near. Another trick that allowed me to avoid this problem was to stack my cabs vertically in order not to have comb filtering and to avoid the sum of frequencies created by the floor-reflected portion of the sound coming from the lower cab (please, sorry for the cloudy explanation, maybe someone else could be more precise).
This argument is out of topic but I wanted to point the attention on the ways to tweek the lowend of the STM. The most effective move I made was to stack the cabs vertically, so there is no driver sitting near each other orizontally. Plus, this approach brings the top cab at ear level and this helps in perceiving the mids and highs, that, unlike the bass, are highly directional. Another way is to find, in a certain room, the right place for the amp that minimizes the interference of floor and wall coupling (avoid corners, for example). In my rehearsal space I obtain a full but totally controlled tone that remains distinct and punchy, using the bass at 11-12 (!!!), the mids at noon (600 or 2.5 setting) and a slight boost of the treble with my humbucker-equipped bass.
Mmmmmhhhhhh, I lost the sense of my answer...sorry, it's monday morning....

I am cutting the mids at the 220 setting to around ten or eleven. I like that better than boosting in the 600 or 2.5 regions. Seems to control the bass build up at higher gain settings. I know I'm in the minority on this.

 

[Musicman20]

Curious what the other amps are that meet your favor more than the GB SL900?

At the moment, and I dont want to be disrespectful to Genz and the great CS they provide, (which truely is the best in the business) im craving my old simple MB LM3. It seemed to work a little easier with my EBMM basses, which I use the most.

They are similar, but I found I never had to change the EQ once on the LM3, and I will miss the excellent feature set of the SL900, but my RH750 has all the bells and whistles I need for the moment.

I just found the MB 'clearer' if that makes sense, which is probably just because the SL900 is much more like a real tube amp (which I have at the moment).

 

[dave_bass5]

I too am pulling out. My Streamliner 600 will be sold this week.

Im loving my MarkBass F1 too much and really dont need two heads.

I have enjoyed my time with my STL600 but i feel im never going to be 100% with it.