This thread has convinced me. Going to order a JAN PHILLIPS 5751 for V1. Stay stock in V2 and V3, I think.
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Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling
- Thread starter Joe Smithberger
- Start date
LoveThatBass
Supporting Member
Thanks, can you or anyone else sum up what this combination JP 5751 in V1, Tung Sol 12AX7 in V2 an V3 does for you. I have a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V1, stock in V2 and V3 and get a really big tone without a lot of breakup. I do like some mids but not overboard with it. Like smooth highs. I do not like a lot of Growl but big but not dark or muddy low end. Even playing outside I never turned my gain over 11 oclock, volume over 2 oclock, bass over 2 oclock, mid over 12 oclock, Master over 3 oclock on my STL600 and got kicking results. The drummer could feel it outdoors 4 or 5 feet from me and got compliments from a guitarist I haven't played with before. Some had to do with the Eminence Kappalite 3012HO's, the active bass I was using and the Tung Sol 12AX7 in V1 in the Streamliner 600. I was rather surprised to say the least. Never played outside before and the guitarist I typically played with had always let me use his old Acoustic Bass Cab with 2 - 15" EV speakers turned his nose up when I told him I only had 2 12's and told me I should use his Acoustic. Wasn't turning his nose up after we started playing though.
Hello, Fellow TB Tube Rollers,
I was about to drink the Kool-Aid and start rolling my Streamliner... I started going through my box of tubes, as I knew I had a Jan 5751 in there. I came across this old Telefunken and I can't remember for the life of me which model it was. The end of the number is worn off! I has "ECC8" and then nothing... I suspect it's an 803, but I'm not knowledgable enough to say for sure... I was hoping someone here may be able to identify it by sight?? I do remember that this was in my DB680, if that helps.
Thanks for the help! Also, where in your Streamliner might you put this little gem?
I was about to drink the Kool-Aid and start rolling my Streamliner... I started going through my box of tubes, as I knew I had a Jan 5751 in there. I came across this old Telefunken and I can't remember for the life of me which model it was. The end of the number is worn off! I has "ECC8" and then nothing... I suspect it's an 803, but I'm not knowledgable enough to say for sure... I was hoping someone here may be able to identify it by sight?? I do remember that this was in my DB680, if that helps.
Thanks for the help! Also, where in your Streamliner might you put this little gem?
Attachments
I looked into the cathode-follower tube failure issue last year when I was tube rolling an SVP-PRO. There are a number of tubes that are are not recommended in the CF position. I found a list I made at that time, which includes:
- Tung Sol reissue
- EH
- Sovtek 12AX7LPS
- Mullard reissue
- JJ ECC83/12AX7
- Mesa-branded JJs
New sensor stated at one point that their spiral filament tubes are not recommended in the CF position because they cannot withstand the cathode to heater voltage and could fail prematurely.
There has been a lot of discussion on the Marshall forums over the years as to exactly why this occurs. Apparently, techs have seen enough failures to discern a pattern.
- Tung Sol reissue
- EH
- Sovtek 12AX7LPS
- Mullard reissue
- JJ ECC83/12AX7
- Mesa-branded JJs
New sensor stated at one point that their spiral filament tubes are not recommended in the CF position because they cannot withstand the cathode to heater voltage and could fail prematurely.
There has been a lot of discussion on the Marshall forums over the years as to exactly why this occurs. Apparently, techs have seen enough failures to discern a pattern.
Love the 5751 in V1 too. Just to add my $0.02...
I have a small baggie of about six old USA-made 5751 tubes that I scored cheap off eBay probably 10 years ago. GE, Philips, Sylvania + a few mystery tubes with illegible markings. I'm not educated on these things, so I'm not really sure what I have. A couple say "5751WA". Someone wrote "BKC" values on the top (e.g. "BKC 30 29"). Not sure what that means. Google turns up nothing.
I popped them in one by one. Can't say I really hear any difference between brand X, Y or Z. Just when I think the Philips has a more scattered tone vs. the others being more focused, I swap them out a second time and hear the opposite.
I'm guessing these tubes are like tone caps in that the value matters much MUCH more than brand or type. Am I right?
Regardless, I'm a much bigger fan of this head now. Kinda wish I got the 900 instead of the 600, though.
I have a small baggie of about six old USA-made 5751 tubes that I scored cheap off eBay probably 10 years ago. GE, Philips, Sylvania + a few mystery tubes with illegible markings. I'm not educated on these things, so I'm not really sure what I have. A couple say "5751WA". Someone wrote "BKC" values on the top (e.g. "BKC 30 29"). Not sure what that means. Google turns up nothing.
I popped them in one by one. Can't say I really hear any difference between brand X, Y or Z. Just when I think the Philips has a more scattered tone vs. the others being more focused, I swap them out a second time and hear the opposite.
I'm guessing these tubes are like tone caps in that the value matters much MUCH more than brand or type. Am I right?
Regardless, I'm a much bigger fan of this head now. Kinda wish I got the 900 instead of the 600, though.
Most likely the JJ's that failed are the ones supplied by New Sensor (yellow label). The New Sensor JJ's have forgone the ISO quality check and are purchased in bulk. The failure rate is much higher. I'm not at all sure why JJ agreed to do this.
Only buy your JJ's from Euro Tubes.
- Tung Sol reissue
- EH
These two are the same tube with a different getter.
- Sovtek 12AX7LPS
This tube has the same materials as the previous two.
LoveThatBass
Supporting Member
Hmmm, I have used both the EH 12AX7 and the Tung Sol Reissue. The EH is quiet and brighter sounding while I like the Tung Sol RI 12AX7 a little darker and more "balsy" in V1 slot. I personally have a hard time believing they are the same. The Getter is only used to flash the tube to remove any oxygen that might remain after a vacuum is pulled on the tube.
Apologies for a question I'm sure has been answered many times before.... And I did search and browse but didn't come across the info I was looking for....
Any advice for switching out the tubes in this amp? Anything tricky about getting it open? Once open is it obvious which tube is v1, v2, v3? Are they labeled?
Much appreciated friends....
Any advice for switching out the tubes in this amp? Anything tricky about getting it open? Once open is it obvious which tube is v1, v2, v3? Are they labeled?
Much appreciated friends....
Nothing tricky in opening it, just don't strip the little screws.
The order v1 - v3 is left to right. V1 is the input v2 is the bass/treble for the bauxhandal (sp) circuit and v3 is the mid...at least that's what I remember them to be.
A lot of people like a Jan Phillips 5751 in V1 because it reduces the gain so it's not so hot and sweetens the tone some. Others like the full on 12ax7. Personal preference and application are what dictate which tube you use. However V1 is the only slot that will take a 5751, you should use a 12ax7 in v2 and v3 as you don't want those gain levels reduced and potentially damage the amp...I don't remember why exactly I just remember AgedHorse mentioning that in a prior post.
Then as you move down the chain there are other flavors to try with either NOS (New Old Stock) tubes or newer reissues. With tubes there are as many opinions as there are different tastes. NOS tubes are pricey and reissues are reasonable. With any tube it's worth it to buy from someone who can bake in the tubes and run a full test on them. You also tend to get what you pay for. Cheap Chinese tubes tend to sound cheap. NOS Mullards are gorgeous sounding if you can find them and pay. Plenty of happy mediums all over the price range. You may not notice huge differences but very subtle variations and nuances.
Good luck and have fun! I have played Ampegs, Traynors, Marshalls and Boogie all tube heads for the past 30 years. This little amp has a similar tone that works well enough for my tube-snob ears and is under 10 lbs which my aging back appreciates!!
Hope that helps.
The order v1 - v3 is left to right. V1 is the input v2 is the bass/treble for the bauxhandal (sp) circuit and v3 is the mid...at least that's what I remember them to be.
A lot of people like a Jan Phillips 5751 in V1 because it reduces the gain so it's not so hot and sweetens the tone some. Others like the full on 12ax7. Personal preference and application are what dictate which tube you use. However V1 is the only slot that will take a 5751, you should use a 12ax7 in v2 and v3 as you don't want those gain levels reduced and potentially damage the amp...I don't remember why exactly I just remember AgedHorse mentioning that in a prior post.
Then as you move down the chain there are other flavors to try with either NOS (New Old Stock) tubes or newer reissues. With tubes there are as many opinions as there are different tastes. NOS tubes are pricey and reissues are reasonable. With any tube it's worth it to buy from someone who can bake in the tubes and run a full test on them. You also tend to get what you pay for. Cheap Chinese tubes tend to sound cheap. NOS Mullards are gorgeous sounding if you can find them and pay. Plenty of happy mediums all over the price range. You may not notice huge differences but very subtle variations and nuances.
Good luck and have fun! I have played Ampegs, Traynors, Marshalls and Boogie all tube heads for the past 30 years. This little amp has a similar tone that works well enough for my tube-snob ears and is under 10 lbs which my aging back appreciates!!
Hope that helps.
Thanks! That's a ton of great info.... I'm planning on trying the Jan 5751 in VI and the Tung Sol 12AX7's in v2 and v3 as that seems to be a pretty popular configuration....
So, I don't know if this is exactly the right place for this question but -- This is my first amp with tubes. Suddenly I'm getting weirdness coming out of the amp and I'm wondering if it could be a tube becoming microphonic? However, since I have no experience with this I don't know what that sounds like.... I'm unsure. Basically it's an intermittent breaking up of a note. It doesn't happen all the time, and it's not always the same note but sometimes on certain notes I get the breaking up....
I have been able to replicate this with 2 different basses and was going to start working through my signal chain to see if I can determine what it is or rule out what it's not -- but, does this sound like it could be a microphonic tube?
Thanks!!
So, I don't know if this is exactly the right place for this question but -- This is my first amp with tubes. Suddenly I'm getting weirdness coming out of the amp and I'm wondering if it could be a tube becoming microphonic? However, since I have no experience with this I don't know what that sounds like.... I'm unsure. Basically it's an intermittent breaking up of a note. It doesn't happen all the time, and it's not always the same note but sometimes on certain notes I get the breaking up....
I have been able to replicate this with 2 different basses and was going to start working through my signal chain to see if I can determine what it is or rule out what it's not -- but, does this sound like it could be a microphonic tube?
Thanks!!
The guy you should ask your question to is Agedhorse. Shoot him a PM and he will help you out.
When I've heard one go microphonic it was more a high pitch ringing not a break up.
When I've heard one go microphonic it was more a high pitch ringing not a break up.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,023
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Can you describe the sound better?
One of the biggest problems we see is bent pins on tubes being pushed in hard enough to damage the socket (and the tube) Please use some care when swapping tubes.
One of the biggest problems we see is bent pins on tubes being pushed in hard enough to damage the socket (and the tube) Please use some care when swapping tubes.
Thanks. Of course hard to describe in words.... But kind of crackley if that makes sense? But not on every note. You could play g-c-d and just the d will break up just as an example. Definitely not high pitched and ringy as mentioned.
I bought the amp used from user silky smoove and I believe he had an issue with a clicking sound that went away when he replaced the tubes with Mesa's.
It's entirely possible the issue is not with the Amp. Could be a cable, a pedal, I run a fearful 15/6 - crossover issue, speaker. Who knows?
I have rehearsal Sunday. I'm going to go straight into the amp and cab for awhile and see if I hear the sound. If I do, I can go in to the return jack with a preamp pedal and see what happens. That should help narrow it down. Any other suggestions welcome.
FWIW. Love the amp. It's an amazing little beast.
I bought the amp used from user silky smoove and I believe he had an issue with a clicking sound that went away when he replaced the tubes with Mesa's.
It's entirely possible the issue is not with the Amp. Could be a cable, a pedal, I run a fearful 15/6 - crossover issue, speaker. Who knows?
I have rehearsal Sunday. I'm going to go straight into the amp and cab for awhile and see if I hear the sound. If I do, I can go in to the return jack with a preamp pedal and see what happens. That should help narrow it down. Any other suggestions welcome.
FWIW. Love the amp. It's an amazing little beast.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,051
- 5
- 221,023
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Do a little more sorting out and if the noise persists you can PM me and I will help you troubleshoot.
Micro phonic tubes tend to whistle/scream. They make an awful sound. If it's dead it doesn't light up. And no sound at all.
I'd check your cables first. It could be somewhat of a defective tube though. That can happen occasionally. But they usually just die if it's bad.
I'd check your cables first. It could be somewhat of a defective tube though. That can happen occasionally. But they usually just die if it's bad.
Alright. After some troubleshooting I think I have traced it back to a bad/scratchy jack on my Boss TU-2 Tuner pedal. Played a couple different basses directly into the amp and cab for most of rehearsal with no issue whatsoever... Messed around with cables and pedals and that was the only thing I could find. Definitely could be the culprit....
I'm still going to try the Jan5751/Tung Sol, Tung Sol at some point in the near future...
Thanks for the amazing feedback and willingness to help everyone
You are all wonderful!
Hey guys, new streamliner 900 owner here and it sounds wonderful...but I have an emergency! (Hoping enough people are subscribed to read this in time)
I have an armor gold cable that's been a bit intermittent lately and now the tip of the cable is stuck in my streamliner input! I have a gig in 6 hours and this is my only head so I need to fix this ASAP. Can I access it from the inside? Please note I've never opened up the amp before (It already came with a JAN Philip 5751 and 2 x Tung Sol 12AX7 installed and they sound amazing), just thought I'd ask around before I attempt something I might regret.
I have an armor gold cable that's been a bit intermittent lately and now the tip of the cable is stuck in my streamliner input! I have a gig in 6 hours and this is my only head so I need to fix this ASAP. Can I access it from the inside? Please note I've never opened up the amp before (It already came with a JAN Philip 5751 and 2 x Tung Sol 12AX7 installed and they sound amazing), just thought I'd ask around before I attempt something I might regret.
