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Genz Streamliner 900 and TC RH450 Comparison

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#301
jnewmark said:
As i alluded to in my first sentence, But, right out of the box ? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Rarely, but yes. It is the nature of tubes. The manufacturer has a set of tests to weed out the bad ones. Then they burn them in by running them for several hours if not days, usually while being heated or even temp cycled to force those that are going fail to fail. But while this may weed out 90+ per cent of the weak ones, there will always be a few that won't get weeded out.

So what can any manufacturer do but install them, and burn them in again. No matter how hard you try, you will never get them all. So, Ken just happened to get through several stages of testing and burn-in, only to fail after being jostled during shipping.

Having said that, I know Genz Benz does not expect anyone to replace a tube if they don't want to. I know they would have sent Ken a third overnight in a heartbeat. Some of us are more comfortable than others when it comes to this sort of thing.
 
#302
hasbeen said:
OK- went through both of Ken's amps.

* Ken's SECOND amp, made noise....sounded like the ocean. This amp had a bad tube ...V3. Pinging it with your fingernail would get the sound to come and go....and would get it to squeal.

* Ken's first amp- This amp is the one in his clips....worked for 6 hours or so for Ken, then it went dead. This failure was NOT due to a tube. We are currently tracking down the root cause. Please stay tuned.
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Thanks, Roger!

Any ideas when the first shipment will be hitting UK shores? The wait is bad for my health. ;)
 
#304
Freddels said:
Is it ok for me to open up the back of my bass to replace the battery when it's time? Or should I send it back for service or replacement? :hiding: :D
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Sure, I don't care. Not quite the same imho, but , I'm fighting a losing battle here. Ok, guys, tear those amps apart !
 
#305
oddly enough, some percentage of electronic products will be DOA. Some products have a higher percentage than others. When that happens to the unlucky few, the owner, dealer, and manufacturers have choices to make.

Some owners will choose to try and "troubleshoot" with help from the dealer or manufacturer. Other owners will opt to send it back for replacement, others for a refund.

Some dealers will bend over backwards to help out the owner. Some dealers will give loaners, overnight parts/replacements. Other dealers will say, "you're on your own, contact the manufacturer."

Some manufacturers will do everything in their power to take care of the owner. Some manufacturers will be communicative and incredibly responsive. Other manufacturers will be non-responsive and just let their support system deal with it on whatever timetable happens.

It isn't really rocket surgery. Stuff happens and people have choices on how they deal with it. I've personally experienced various tech issues/failures, and have had dealers and manufacturers respond on both ends of the spectrum. As I said before, my "strike rule" isn't so much about the piece of gear as it is the people behind it. But in the end everyone gets to vote with their pocketbook. And everyone else sitting on the sidelines gets to kibitz and whine on TB :D
 
#306
jnewmark said:
Actually, it was in tune, as I bought it at a local music store, and had the tech set it up and tuned for me. Still, I would'nt have to tear it apart to tune it now, would I? I'm aware that tubes have prongs and can be replaced, just don't think it's my lookout to do it when it's defective right out of the box, and paid close to $1,000 for it. Maybe I'm just weird? :cool:
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Hence the reason GB is williing to send out a replacement immediately, for those not comfortable with a screw driver and a tube.
 
#309
jnewmark said:
Sure, I don't care. Not quite the same imho, but , I'm fighting a losing battle here. Ok, guys, tear those amps apart !
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J, this is the brand loyalty that other companies only wish they had!

I tried the luxury car analogy a few pages back to your point, but it appears that Ken, you, me would be the only ones back at the dealership when the engine refused to start again. How we'd end up driving it back to the dealership is another story :-)
 
#311
hasbeen said:
OK- went through both of Ken's amps.

* Ken's SECOND amp, made noise....sounded like the ocean. This amp had a bad tube ...V3. Pinging it with your fingernail would get the sound to come and go....and would get it to squeal.

* Ken's first amp- This amp is the one in his clips....worked for 6 hours or so for Ken, then it went dead. This failure was NOT due to a tube. We are currently tracking down the root cause. Please stay tuned.
Click to expand...


The irony - a high tech well engineered amp brought down by a tube. Microphonic tube no less. Tubes are known to do this. I guess you know this with all your other tube amps your 90 day warranty on tubes.

I think this is why Carvin put a bypass switch on their amps. Probably saves them hundreds of support calls.

First amp going dead is really odd.
 
#312
jnewmark said:
Actually, it was in tune, as I bought it at a local music store, and had the tech set it up and tuned for me. Still, I would'nt have to tear it apart to tune it now, would I? I'm aware that tubes have prongs and can be replaced, just don't think it's my lookout to do it when it's defective right out of the box, and paid close to $1,000 for it. Maybe I'm just weird? :cool:
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I bet you bring it back to the tech to change the battery?

Freddels said:
Is it ok for me to open up the back of my bass to replace the battery when it's time? Or should I send it back for service or replacement? :hiding: :D
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Oh, right, maybe that's why some of them play passive solely?

Hahaha, just messing :p
 
#313
Very impressed by GB's work with Ken and their participation in this thread (just builds with my generally being impressed by GB customer service).

FWIW, my Streamliner arrived safely, works perfectly, and has been to a gig and a GTG.
Great amp. I've got some backup tubes coming to keep in my gigbag.
Meanwhile, I have to worries about gigging this.

It's the first amp I've bought new since GK came out with the 800RB (bought one of those puppies the first month they came out). Bought new due to a combination of GB tone, quality, responsiveness and CS.

I'm a sonically happy camper.
 
#314
Kudos to GB for timely response so far. Data to this point pretty much match up with the symptoms Ken described. Total loss of output on #1 was never too likely a tube thing, IMO, more probably some shutdown condition in the power circuit; but just guessing.

We all have different takes on the tube thing, and that's OK. I grew up playing through Fender Bassman heads. There was an electronics tech down on Jefferson in Detroit who worked on amps from Nugent, MC5 etc etc. We called him Fast Eddie. He used to hop up the power section in the Bassman heads to 100W. That and a couple JBL K140's was the way I rolled for a long time. Anyhow, the back of those heads was open and the tubes just had a finite lifetime. So, switching out the tubes was more like tire maintenance to me, to use the car analog.

Anyhow, still looks like a great unit. Ken was a great guy, as usual, about the whole thing. Let's move past this. I think its great we now have a reasonable take on a tube head in a micro. Check the box. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

GL2A
 
#315
I wouldn't hesitate one second on a Streamliner. There is no doubt Genz will take care of you Enough said.

Sent from my iPhone. Please pardon terse messages. All spelling errors are the sole property of Apple, Inc.
 
#316
CharlieC said:
If this were a brand new luxury car with a bad transmission, twice over, no one would blame you for returning the vehicles.
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12bass said:
Those analogies are inaccurate. Amplifier tubes fail, and when they do, they don't risk peoples' lives. The scenarios above are far more serious. Also, a failed tube is easily replaceable by the end user. Transmissions ... are not.
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CharlieC said:
Fair enough. I stand corrected.

I will instead say "a brand new luxury car with a significant operational problem that one would have no desire of trying to service themselves upon immediate receipt of the vehicle."
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I think bad tubes are more like flat tires on a new car ...
 
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