• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Genz Uber212

#102
hasbeen said:
no mismatch at all...they're designed to go together and they're both 4 ohm cabs.
Click to expand...

Actually, mismatch is a bad choice of words on my part.

What I meant was that if I drive a 4ohm 410 and a 4 ohm 212 in parallel, half the power is dissipated across the 4 drivers of the 410 and the other half across the 2 drivers of the 212. Thus, the power distribution is not equal across the six drivers.

Whereas if the 212 was an 8 ohm cab, then 2/3 of the power is distributed to the 410 and 1/3 of the power to the 212. In this case, all six drivers receive a substantially equal distribution of the total power applied to the stack.

So what I am asking is, how much difference will this make in the balance between the stack sound-wise? I realize that it is not necessarily a bad thing that each of the 2 drivers of the 212 will be louder than each of the 410s. It just means that the 212 will be more present in the mix between the two.

Also, I am commenting on the fact that with a Shuttle Max 12.0, one would have complete control over this issue by being able to adjust the power to each cab independently and thus be able to achieve what one likes as far as the balance between the two.
 
#103
BuffaloBob4343 said:
Actually, mismatch is a bad choice of words on my part.

What I meant was that if I drive a 4ohm 410 and a 4 ohm 212 in parallel, half the power is dissipated across the 4 drivers of the 410 and the other half across the 2 drivers of the 212. Thus, the power distribution is not equal across the six drivers.

Whereas if the 212 was an 8 ohm cab, then 2/3 of the power is distributed to the 410 and 1/3 of the power to the 212. In this case, all six drivers receive a substantially equal distribution of the total power applied to the stack.

So what I am asking is, how much difference will this make in the balance between the stack sound-wise? I realize that it is not necessarily a bad thing that each of the 2 drivers of the 212 will be louder than each of the 410s. It just means that the 212 will be more present in the mix between the two.

Also, I am commenting on the fact that with a Shuttle Max 12.0, one would have complete control over this issue by being able to adjust the power to each cab independently and thus be able to achieve what one likes as far as the balance between the two.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying, and not to nit-pick, but why does the power need to distribute evenly across the drivers when the drivers are different? In this case, I'd want more power going into the individual 12's so that they put out more volume per driver than the 10's. If you were stacking a 410 and a 210 it would be different and I would want an 8 ohm 210 to match. But the 212 should keep up roughly with the 410 if power is the same. I imagine that the 410 would still be a bit louder than the 410. If were to do what you are saying and cut power to the 212 even further, the gap between the two would grow even larger. That might not be a bad thing tonally as it could still sound really good, but with two evenly sized cabinets in terms of cubic volume and approximate power handling, evening the power is the better approach IMHO.
 
#104
Note that the 212 cabinet's drivers (especially in this tuning) remain linear under higher power levels per driver than the 10's do, so the match is in fact better. This is one reason why we chose to go with a 4 ohm version of the 212 in the Uber. Also, it would match up very nicely to the GBE-750, 1200 or ShuttleMax 12.0 paired with another cabinet. It would also match up well with the Shuttle 3.0, 6.0 and ShuttleMax 6.0 as a stand alone cabinet.
 
#105
Eublet said:
I understand what you are saying, and not to nit-pick, but why does the power need to distribute evenly across the drivers when the drivers are different? In this case, I'd want more power going into the individual 12's so that they put out more volume per driver than the 10's. If you were stacking a 410 and a 210 it would be different and I would want an 8 ohm 210 to match. But the 212 should keep up roughly with the 410 if power is the same.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't KNOW that the power should be balanced between all drivers of a stack, but I believe that is the way most single cab speakers with 10s and 12s are built. Hence the question.

You may be right that as to personal taste, some would rather that the 12s have more power so that volume from the two cabs are more equal, rather than the power from each driver is more equal. I was just curious as to the thoughts of the Genz guys on this issue, given that they chose not to offer an 8 ohm 212.

I also realized as I typed the original post that the beauty of a two channel amp like the Shuttle Max 12.0 is that you have complete control over how the two cabs blend, so you can do so to personal taste and room variations.

Great, now I am talking myself into even more gear!!:help:
 
#106
BuffaloBob4343 said:
Actually, mismatch is a bad choice of words on my part.

What I meant was that if I drive a 4ohm 410 and a 4 ohm 212 in parallel, half the power is dissipated across the 4 drivers of the 410 and the other half across the 2 drivers of the 212. Thus, the power distribution is not equal across the six drivers.

Whereas if the 212 was an 8 ohm cab, then 2/3 of the power is distributed to the 410 and 1/3 of the power to the 212. In this case, all six drivers receive a substantially equal distribution of the total power applied to the stack.

So what I am asking is, how much difference will this make in the balance between the stack sound-wise? I realize that it is not necessarily a bad thing that each of the 2 drivers of the 212 will be louder than each of the 410s. It just means that the 212 will be more present in the mix between the two.

Also, I am commenting on the fact that with a Shuttle Max 12.0, one would have complete control over this issue by being able to adjust the power to each cab independently and thus be able to achieve what one likes as far as the balance between the two.
Click to expand...

I understand where your concern is coming from but, the balance will be fine.....zero problems.

Please be aware though that you cannot adjust the power level per side.
 
#107
agedhorse said:
Note that the 212 cabinet's drivers (especially in this tuning) remain linear under higher power levels per driver than the 10's do, so the match is in fact better. This is one reason why we chose to go with a 4 ohm version of the 212 in the Uber. Also, it would match up very nicely to the GBE-750, 1200 or ShuttleMax 12.0 paired with another cabinet. It would also match up well with the Shuttle 3.0, 6.0 and ShuttleMax 6.0 as a stand alone cabinet.
Click to expand...

See, this is what I wanted to hear! I trust these guys as to their design goals and results, because I know that everything they do is well thought out and well-reasoned.
 
#112
MikeBass said:
HUH?????:eyebrow:
ShuttleMax 6.0??????

Did you mean to say that? Or was it a typo?
I don't recall you mentioning that here before. Unless I missed it in a post someplace.
So......do tell!
Click to expand...

And there is a Shuttlemax 12.0, 600w and 1200w respectively.

Both have the dual preamp section of the bigger GBE-600 and GBE-1200, but in the smaller lighter goes everywhere package of the shuttle head.

I was going to buy the shuttle 6.0 but now i'm waiting again.
 
#113
joelb79 said:
And there is a Shuttlemax 12.0, 600w and 1200w respectively.

Both have the dual preamp section of the bigger GBE-600 and GBE-1200, but in the smaller lighter goes everywhere package of the shuttle head.

I was going to buy the shuttle 6.0 but now i'm waiting again.
Click to expand...

I'm all about the S'Max12.0.
Known about that one since day one it hit here.
Just didn't know about the S'Max6.0
 
#115
BuffaloBob4343 said:
Please don't think that I didn't believe you. When I say I trust "these guys," you are included! I was just trying to better explain my question when Andy jumped in with the goods.

Hey, I was a circuit design engineer in an earlier life and I don't understand everything Andy says either!:o
Click to expand...

oh no...not at all. That wasn't a reference to what you were posting....it was just a chance for me to poke fun at Andy and myself.
 
#119
lbwdog said:
I'm wondering if the Uber 212's drivers are GB's OEM version of the new Eminence 3012......Trade secret maybe?

I've been expecting some of the major cab makers to intoduce some new products utilizing these highly anticipated twelvers!
Click to expand...

!!!?????!!!????

they fooled the Mayans , Egyptians, and the Anunaki!! they got it past 2012 and made it go to 3012??!!

krikey!!

:D



;)
 
#120
BuffaloBob4343 said:
I am wondering now, though, that given there will be no 8 ohm 212, if the mismatch in power per speaker (with a 4ohm 410) will negatively affect the balance of such a stack.
Click to expand...

BuffaloBob4343 said:
Actually, I don't KNOW that the power should be balanced between all drivers of a stack, but I believe that is the way most single cab speakers with 10s and 12s are built. Hence the question.

You may be right that as to personal taste, some would rather that the 12s have more power so that volume from the two cabs are more equal, rather than the power from each driver is more equal.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. Unless two the cabs are vastly different in sensitivity, etc., there won't be a problem.

A tad more power going to one driver as opposed to another has never concerned me. I look at each cab as having it's own voice. Pairing these two will yield a third voice, which sounds like it would be a good thing, based on what I've read by those who have experienced it!

To quote you...I can't help but think that an Uber 410/212 stack would just be monstrously delicious!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back