Genzler Amplification ! New Genz Benz ?

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

That array sure looks cool. With the array narrowing vertical dispersion, do you have any issues hearing the upper frequencies when standing close? Also, how tight is the bottom end? From Tom bowlus's review, it sounds like they are voiced very flat so, if you want to get a traditional cab sound with that high mid snarl, you would really have to crank them. Does that sound about right?

I would say that the cab is voiced flat but that's a good thing. I've had no problems hearing the highs or mids in fact that's what stands out about the 12-3 cab. To me it's as if someone is throwing the mids and highs at you but they are smooth and the low end is the tightest I've heard from a 12" cab. Overall I'd say the cab is very well balanced. Before buying these cabs I actually perferred the sound of sealed cabs especially the berg NV line with the tweeter version. Ported cabs do have more bass but to me it's a unusable bass because it can begin to sound sloppy and muddy. The sealed cab to my ears sound more balance and isn't lacking any bass. They had enough bass to do any gig but was more balance and smooth sounding instead of boomy and out of control. The only way I can describe the sound is a perfect ban lance between a 12" and 10" speaker all in one. Like someone took the good DNA characteristics of a 12" and a 10" and mated them together. It makes for some solid, crunchy, in your face, cut thru the mix like a hot knife butter sound! And what I love the most is the sort of middy fingering grit you get from each note as you play. Almost like a brilliance on every note played. Hope these words I'm coming up with is making sense. It's kinda heard to describe. If you were a bassist in the audience listening to the tone you'd either be smiling or have to be dead not to be.

 

[kringle77]

That's what I was looking for. I hear what you are saying. I really prefer the bottom focus of sealed cabs too and that's always my hesitation with ported ones.

 

[tombowlus]

Yes, these definitely have somewhat of a sealed feel to them. Kind of like the Barefaced Two10.

 

[kringle77]

Talkbass..... why can't I quit you!

 

[Holdsg]

because you LOVE it

 

[kringle77]

As fair as hearing the array up close, I was referring to a pair, where the stack is about waste level.

 

[husky123]

I easily heard every detail and nuance of my tone last night and I was standing within a 3' radius of my stacked (2) 12-3 array last night. High mid snarl is SUPER easy to dial up with the countours and parametric mids. With countour B, I can make the rig sound like an old school cab with the twist of a knob. Then flick back to countour A for a deep, wide and large sonic footprint.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

A few additional comments about the Bass Array, the do have a very flat response from the low mids way up to about 10k where the 3" drivers have a natural rise in response. This gives these cabs the perception of a HF driver but much smoother due to the small diameter paper cones. The depth and control of the LF is testimony to the quality of the 12" driver and how well it works within this ported design. Other potential drivers we tested were much more uncontrolled and did not provide the clarity of the lowest notes.
As for being able to stand in front of the cabinet (2 stacked) and hear what is being produced, in real world use it really is no different than a conventional cab.
A couple of feet away or so and your hearing what your audience is hearing. The added benefit is that this design is "projecting" much deeper into the room and across the width of the stage.

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

As fair as hearing the array up close, I was referring to a pair, where the stack is about waste level.

Yes I actually prefer the sound of them stacked 2 high rather than 3 high as far as me standing by the cab hearing them. I'm sure 3 high is better for your listening audience but these cab project so well it can somewhat become overbearing at 3 high if your standing by them or in front. I took 4 cabs to one of my gigs and instead of stacking them 4 high (which I tested) I went with 2 side-by-side. To my ears this sounded a lot deeper and fuller. The cabs that sat on the floor definitely sound a lot more deeper with more bass resonating from them. I also noticed this when I plugged up all 6 cabs stacked 3 by 3. When I unplugged the top 2 cabs leaving just the bottom 4. The sound just got stupid deeper and fuller I'm not sure if this is because the 2 amps went from 6 cabs distributing 1600watts at 2.67 ohms to 4 cabs distributing 1600 watts at 4 ohms. It may have very well been that I heard a difference because I now have 2 cabs almost at ear level throwing so many highs and mids that it sounded different. I'm telling you guys these cabs throw faster than a professional baseball pitcher

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Just as a off topic and I did ask Jeff about this already but was wondering what you guys thoughts were on this ideal. I ask Jeff if during their R & D if they ever considered putting a attenuator on the 12-3 to give their customers a option to turn off the highs and mids altogether. Now I realize that Jeff probably never considered that someone foolish as me would come along and purchase 6 (and still thinking about adding 2 more). These cabs project so well that I feel you don't need all 6 cabs projecting at the same time. I think it would be cool to be able to turn the mids and highs off to create a sub woofer like effect. My ideal would be to cut the mids/highs to the cabs sitting on the floor and leave the rest on. Or maybe do 3 subs 3 regular. Just saying Jeff maybe this can be in a bass array 2 design. Lol and yes I'll be purchasing a few of those also if they ever came out. We'll on a second note Jeff would you be able to modify 2-3 of my cabs to do this without causing any damage to the original design? If so I'll habe them in the mail to you Monday morn!

By the way here's Jeff response when I pm'd him on TB about it....Jeff I hope you don't mind me sharing.

"No that was never a part of the design plans as this is a fully integrated design and completely balanced between components. The array stack is perfectly matched to the woofer and the cabs ability to handle all of the power."

I hope this helps.
Jeff

 

[Fishface]

Doesn't that line array just have a plug visible from the from grill that could be unplugged to test what you nare asking for (removing the array from the cab output)?

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Doesn't that line array just have a plug visible from the from grill that could be unplugged to test what you nare asking for (removing the array from the cab output)?

Yes your correct but who wants to keep taking a grill off and on? That would suck! Besides that I was wondering if it were possible to have the crossover actually convert the 12's to sub frequencies when ever turned down. But Fishface that is a good way to begin testing my theory.

 

[Fishface]

Yeah... My original thought was as a test, but if it gives you what you are looking for then you could just dedicate a couple for only that purpose by leaving it unplugged.

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Yeah... My original thought was as a test, but if it gives you what you are looking for then you could just dedicate a couple for only that purpose by leaving it unplugged.

Yeah makes sense... I'll let Jeff chime in on this before I go unplugging anything. Jeff mentioned that everything is perfectly balanced so I'm not sure if it will mess something up if I do that.

 

[kringle77]

I asked about vertical dispersion because I have a pair of carvin column array speakers using these 3" drivers and experimented by setting one next to a few of my full range cabs. It was so directional that I had to bend down to hear all the smooth mids and treble. That's what got me thinking about a 212t with a ba123 stacked on top.

 

[kringle77]

Also, from Shawn Fairchild reviews, it sounded like the 212t was more traditional/growly and that the pairing may compliment each other. Also, the 212t is more of a 1 cab, grab and go cab.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Yeah makes sense... I'll let Jeff chime in on this before I go unplugging anything. Jeff mentioned that everything is perfectly balanced so I'm not sure if it will mess something up if I do that.

Hey 9 3/4 --- I'm always hesitant to recommend people start modifying cabinets as a general rule. But in your case where you have so many cabs (thank you again) and you'd like to see what its like using the bottom units as a sub only --- You could certainly unplug the Array column from your lower cabs if you care to.

Obviously the 12" will still have it's internal roll off of the upper mids and highs but that is now all you want to hear from this cab on the bottom. If you do unplug the array from the front baffle as suggested I would make sure you tape the cord to the array column in some fashion so it does not hit the 12" speaker. That would not be good!

Again, I'm fully aware that many players have their own ideas of how a systems design best works for their specific needs but I don't see where keeping the array plugged in interferes with the amount of low end your going to get from the total stack. By unplugging the bottom array your just getting less mid/high content and coupling of 2 or 3 Bass Array cabs stack together.
So, OK maybe in your specific case, this may save a few less calls to your window repair guy.

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Hey 9 3/4 --- I'm always hesitant to recommend people start modifying cabinets as a general rule. But in your case where you have so many cabs (thank you again) and you'd like to see what its like using the bottom units as a sub only --- You could certainly unplug the Array column from your lower cabs if you care to.

Obviously the 12" will still have it's internal roll off of the upper mids and highs but that is now all you want to hear from this cab on the bottom. If you do unplug the array from the front baffle as suggested I would make sure you tape the cord to the array column in some fashion so it does not hit the 12" speaker. That would not be good!

Again, I'm fully aware that many players have their own ideas of how a systems design best works for their specific needs but I don't see where keeping the array plugged in interferes with the amount of low end your going to get from the total stack. By unplugging the bottom array your just getting less mid/high content and coupling of 2 or 3 Bass Array cabs stack together.
So, OK maybe in your specific case, this may save a few less calls to your window repair guy.

LOL well put sir....well put and duly noted!

 

[kringle77]

The comment on cab height is a good one. I've used a few different pairs of 2x1e cabs. When using 1, I always wished the speakers were closer to my ears. So, then you stack another vertically on top and the final balance shifts. Too much mids/highs compared to lows/lowmid punch. It seems like a 3x12 cab would fit the bill and find that right balance. I always prefer to move one larger cab than two or 3 small ones and find that a single cab always sounds more focused. With a 212t/ba123 combo you get a one cab option, a small portable option and then combining the two you would maybe have the no compromise tone. Of course, it is then two trips again. It may not sound like a lot but, at 3am, february, in upstate ny, your priorities line up fast and you are once again saying out loud "why the hell am I making so many trips? I did this to myself again!" If there was a 3x12 version of this cab with some sort of 3" array, I'd dish out the cash to try it right now. I definitely could build one using 16 ohm stock 12pr300 drivers and mids but, I have a feeling that Jeff's drivers may be tweeted for a more responsive bottom end. My hat is off to him for doing something cool and different. Duke definitely does it already but, Jeff does it at a larger scale.

 

[Ryan L.]

. Also, the 212t is more of a 1 cab, grab and go cab.

Yep, that it is, IMO. Several gigs in now, and I'm still grinning ear to ear when I play this setup. The deep, controlled (never boomy) low end that the cab puts out still amazes me. I also LOVE the form factor of it----so easy to handle.

Also, my sound tech is very pleased with the DI on the MG800. He said he gets a cleaner, clearer signal than I was sending him from my Eden WT800 (I always run pre-eq, so I'm not messing with his mix when I change things on stage). So there's another plus for this rig.