Genzler Amplification ! New Genz Benz ?

[chuck3]

The BA 12-3 sounds great from all the reviews. Assuming I can only get one for now, I was wondering how it would work to stack it on top of a Genz Benz Neox 112, and use both. It looks like it would fit in terms of H x W but the depth is 1-1/2" deeper on the BA 12-3 than the Neox 112. So depending on where the feet are placed on the BA 12-3, this might or might not work. In terms of sound? I'd be interested in thoughts.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

The BA 12-3 sounds great from all the reviews. Assuming I can only get one for now, I was wondering how it would work to stack it on top of a Genz Benz Neox 112, and use both. It looks like it would fit in terms of H x W but the depth is 1-1/2" deeper on the BA 12-3 than the Neox 112. So depending on where the feet are placed on the BA 12-3, this might or might not work. In terms of sound? I'd be interested in thoughts.

Hey Chuck 3 --- Brooklyn and Rhinebeck, 2 places I enjoy very much! I have a good friend that lives in Red Hook just north of you.
About your question --- I think this would be a good option to utilize a cab you already have. I think the rubber feet on the BA cab will sit on top of the NEOX cab with a little overhang of the cab in the front and back.
I would also recommend that you turn off the tweeter on the NEOX cab when you're running both cabs. That way you continue to experience the smoothness of the Bass Array's top end. Certainly you could "season to taste" once you test the rig for a while.

I hope this helps.

Jeff

 

[John D Harris]

Hey Chuck 3 --- Brooklyn and Rhinebeck, 2 places I enjoy very much! I have a good friend that lives in Red Hook just north of you.
About your question --- I think this would be a good option to utilize a cab you already have. I think the rubber feet on the BA cab will sit on top of the NEOX cab with a little overhang of the cab in the front and back.
I would also recommend that you turn off the tweeter on the NEOX cab when you're running both cabs. That way you continue to experience the smoothness of the Bass Array's top end. Certainly you could "season to taste" once you test the rig for a while.

I hope this helps.

Jeff

Jeff,
How well would the MG212T w/BA12-3 on top work (Kringle mentioned it & sounds interesting, if you have the right amp for the impedance) (& cut the HF on the 212, right?)?

 

[Djadja]

I've had my BA12-3 since late October and early on I wondered here whether a woofer only version might be a nice addition underneath it... Since then, I've come to think that the whole package really is important to the sound of the cab and while a woofer only version underneath would be significantly less expensive, it would lose the special quality of sound produced by the cab. I don't think just adding more bottom end would be the best choice for the overall sound. Those mids and highs just work so well and in such balance with the woofer that I don't think you'd really gain anything with an additional 12 without those 3's.

 

[MichaelOz]

Jeff,
How well would the MG212T w/BA12-3 on top work (Kringle mentioned it & sounds interesting, if you have the right amp for the impedance) (& cut the HF on the 212, right?)?

I had both to demo but never ran them at the same time - the BA12-3 has a larger footprint and doesn't fit all that well on top of the 212.

As mentioned previously I liked the 212 but loved the single 12-3, and am completely sold on 2 of them. Took a little while to get used to the amp (Magellan 800) but recently played a rock gig, and even the singer commented on how good the bass (Dingwall Z2) sounded. I rest my case . Looks like the perfect rig.

A third BA12-3 would be great but that would mean issues with loading the car and a second trip - at the moment everything fits perfectly into the boot, and on the little trolley I have.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Saluki]

I doubt Jeff was thinking about some of the possible scenarios we are discussing here for the new line, but hey that's what happens when you design a 2.67 ohm capable amp and come around here on TB. A couple of thoughts on the different 3-12 stacks discussed:

On the 212T/BA12-3 combo. I think the 12" drivers are the same, so it seems one could easily turn the tweeter down on the 212T and ad BA12-3 on top. The BA 12-3 is 2" deeper and obviously looks different. My guess is it would work fine, but probably as good or better performance just sticking with two BA12-3. That said, I may have to pick up a BA12-3 just to try this. This is TB after all.

On 9 3/4's comment regarding to using a BA 12-3 as a sub by removing the 3" array. My first question is what would this do to the resistance of the cab and how would that play out with the power (probably insignificant, but just a thought). Second, my reservation would be paying for the components used in the array and then disconnecting them. One, and when I say one I mean 9 3/4 , could probably ad a kill switch right at the grill to toggle on/off the array if they were going to be used in this fashion. If I were using two BA 12-3s I wouldn't even wouldn't even consider this, but maybe in a three stacked scenario if there were a BA12 cab without the array that would cost significantly less, I might use it. I bet the 12" loaded BA 12 would probably sound pretty good on its on up to certain frequency. I remember doing this with a set of Berg 12"s where the top had a tweeter and the bottom one didn't. saved a few pennies. Taking this concept a little further, Jeff would it be possible to do a BA212-3 cab where only the top 12 had the 4-3" drivers and then the stack another BA12-3 on top for a modular 3-BA12-3?

 

[bebass]

Hey 9 3/4 --- I'm always hesitant to recommend people start modifying cabinets as a general rule. But in your case where you have so many cabs (thank you again) and you'd like to see what its like using the bottom units as a sub only --- You could certainly unplug the Array column from your lower cabs if you care to.

Obviously the 12" will still have it's internal roll off of the upper mids and highs but that is now all you want to hear from this cab on the bottom. If you do unplug the array from the front baffle as suggested I would make sure you tape the cord to the array column in some fashion so it does not hit the 12" speaker. That would not be good!

Again, I'm fully aware that many players have their own ideas of how a systems design best works for their specific needs but I don't see where keeping the array plugged in interferes with the amount of low end your going to get from the total stack. By unplugging the bottom array your just getting less mid/high content and coupling of 2 or 3 Bass Array cabs stack together.
So, OK maybe in your specific case, this may save a few less calls to your window repair guy.

I'll add my first experiment with 3 cabs versus 2. I had 3 stacked with only the top two plugged in and played for a few minutes then added the 3rd. For the first few seconds, I thought something was horribly wrong. I then realized I got a bass bump by both floor coupling and speaker coupling and had to adjust my EQ to lower the bass a bit to make for a really nice-to-me sound (I had bumped it a bit with using the top 2)
So my suggestion in the questions asked about using just a "woofer only" BA12-3 without use of the array is that there simply is no need to do so. To my ears, the array doesn't overpower the woofer in the 3 BA12-3 setup and sounds, to me, properly balanced. Now if all 3 were off the floor and no floor bass coupling (however that would be possible) I could see the validity in a woofer only as the bottom cab. And of course my conclusions are made in the particular room I was in and out in the open may differ, but I don't think they will.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Jeff,
How well would the MG212T w/BA12-3 on top work (Kringle mentioned it & sounds interesting, if you have the right amp for the impedance) (& cut the HF on the 212, right?)?

You know I have very mixed feelings about all of the combining cabinets discussions here.
As a manufacturer you develop a product line (call it a product roadmap) so you know where your going with your offerings --- before you ever release anything. But the beauty of this forum and our participation (manufacturers in general) is that we can have such a direct conversation with a wide variety of players, users and potential users and if your listening (which we certainly do) you consider the other opinions of what you're offering.
That is really a beautiful thing.
So even your best laid product roadmaps may require revisions and alterations as you see how the real world is actually using your products.

That gets us to the discussion about combining a design like the Bass Array cab with other more traditional cabinets. I would say that with all the dozens of cabinet designs I've developed and brought to market over the years, when conceptualizing and developing the Bass Array design I felt that THIS is surely a design that best works by itself, individually or in multiples (in the case of 9 3/4 -- a stack of 6 ) and could have more detrimental characteristics when combined with non similar cabinets.
I've had this discussion with so many users of the Bass Array cabinets and that combining 2 cabs goes way further in their combined output than just stacking 2 conventional 1x12 cabs.
As I see how players might want the benefits of the BA design but with a consideration to more LF output underneath it, certainly if you have a cab already and want to add the BA, you're not going to hurt anything. Are you going to get the full benefit of the BA design.....we'll that's more subjective.

I guess if you're asking for my input, I'd rather potential users of the BA cabs consider that they're about ready to embark on a "different aural experience" if I consider these cabs and with that they should consider that this is more of a transition to a new speaker system and not an enhancement to what they already have. When we sent the proto cabs out to several players of varying styles the above statement was pretty consistent.

Sorry if I'm a little long winded on this Sunday morning with this subject but I hope this provides some background into several of the questions being asked about various potential combinations. Really can't hurt anything in the long run but am I getting the full impact of what is being offered.

Thanks for listening and yes we continue to listen from our side too.

 

[kringle77]

Jeff, thank you. We all appreciate how you have listened to the regular Joe for many years. It is a big deal.

 

[RBASS930]

So for clarity purposes, why are people wanting to mix the BA with a traditional 12? Not saying it shouldn't be done, really just curious.
Is it for fear that two or three BA's would be "too much" of the 3" driver thing, or is it that they feel two or three BA's wouldn't have enough low end?
In my experience with more than 1 BA (I have tried 2, and even 3 stacked), the low end is surprisingly plenty (way more than I have experienced with just 1 BA). Controlled, focused, and plenty on tap.
And as far as having 8, or even 12, 3" drivers working together, these cabs take EQ so well, that it was never an issue, and actually more of an advantage. "Too much of a good thing" doesn't seem to apply with this design.
Although I have never tried to mix a BA with a traditional cab, or feel the need to do so for my purposes, I would be curious to hear people's results when they give it a shot. I don't have any other 12" cabs to pair them with. The only other cab I have here is an Epi310. And well, that would just be silly.

 

[murphy]

I will be using my Magellan with Epifani UL410 4ohms or UL310 5.3ohms cabs

hmmm....could they be combined???

I have another 4ohm UL410 but have no use for an 810 stack .........But????.....

 

[smogg]

4 ohm + 5.3 ohm would be 2.29 ohms? Is my math right?

I will be using my Magellan with Epifani UL410 4ohms or UL310 5.3ohms cabs

hmmm....could they be combined???

I have another 4ohm UL410 but have no use for an 810 stack .........But????.....

 

[chuck3]

Hey Chuck 3 --- Brooklyn and Rhinebeck, 2 places I enjoy very much! I have a good friend that lives in Red Hook just north of you.
About your question --- I think this would be a good option to utilize a cab you already have. I think the rubber feet on the BA cab will sit on top of the NEOX cab with a little overhang of the cab in the front and back.
I would also recommend that you turn off the tweeter on the NEOX cab when you're running both cabs. That way you continue to experience the smoothness of the Bass Array's top end. Certainly you could "season to taste" once you test the rig for a while.

I hope this helps.

Jeff

Thanks, Jeff, that's very helpful - I plan to get a BA cab and try it.

Yes, I know Red Hook well. Among other connections, I have a once-a-month jazz gig at a restaurant there, for which I always use my trusty GB Shuttle 10T - arguably the single most useful piece of bass gear ever made! (Of course, I haven't tried Genzler gear yet ...)

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

For those of you looking for a nice hard case solution for your Magellan 800 this Nanuk 920 waterproof case is really nice and fits the head perfect as if it was made for it. All I did was remove the first peace of foam and sat the head in. Perfect! I decided to use the sides that are open for my power cord and speakon cables. If you wanted you could use the second piece of foam to fill the sides creating a recessed mould for your head to sit in. And did I mention it's waterproof. Got mind for $99 bucks on eBay.

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A MAN WHO'S SUPER HAPPY WITH HIS SOUND? I'D SAY SO....ON THE GIG PICTURE OF NINE-AND-THREE-QUARTERS AND HIS LOVELY GENZLER RIG FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURES! DID I EVER TELL YOU GUYS HOW HAPPY I AM WITH MY TONE....WOW!

 

[smogg]

Yeah, I'd say that smile sums it up nicely.
Sound clips from the praise band mix?

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Yeah, I'd say that smile sums it up nicely.
Sound clips from the praise band mix?

Nothing that I recorded myself but I was once told that the pastor post the team on Facebook or maybe it's the churches website the next day after we play. I'll see if I can find out that info and post the link tomorrow. If not I'll take my recorded and have my wife record us next week.

 

[BuffaloBob4343]

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE A MAN WHO'S SUPER HAPPY WITH HIS SOUND? I'D SAY SO....ON THE GIG PICTURE OF NINE-AND-THREE-QUARTERS AND HIS LOVELY GENZLER RIG FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURES! DID I EVER TELL YOU GUYS HOW HAPPY I AM WITH MY TONE....WOW!

View attachment 809997

Nice Smith as well!

 

[Nine-and-three-Quarters]

Nice Smith as well!

Thanks sir!

 

[chuck3]

So for clarity purposes, why are people wanting to mix the BA with a traditional 12? Not saying it shouldn't be done, really just curious.
Is it for fear that two or three BA's would be "too much" of the 3" driver thing, or is it that they feel two or three BA's wouldn't have enough low end?

It's a fair question, so let me try to answer it.

First off, I have no fear that using two BA's would be "too much" of anything or would lack low end. I am a huge fan of Jeff's (and his colleagues') work at Genz Benz and use GB gear all the time. I'm sure stacking two BA's works really well. I'm just not willing to spend for two BA's without at least trying one. And I'm sure one would be plenty for a lot of the playing I do, especially at small venues or when there is no drummer involved.

In the meantime, however, I'm taking on a new project with two guitars, a drummer and a singer. It's nominally jazz, but when the two guitars and drummer get going, it gets pretty loud. I'm also doubling on upright and 5-string electric for this project, so I need a lot of clean headroom. I usually run the upright into the FOH with a preamp, but that's not an option with this band, so I need one amp for both.

My thought about stacking the BA on the GB Neox 112 (a very nice cab in its own right) is that (i) I can get more clean volume running 4 ohms and 2x12, and (ii) the BA will be up off the floor, which may be better in terms of hearing it. I may be wrong about both, but that's what I was thinking.

Having said all that - if I get one BA and it's enough for this project, then that's that! I have read in reviews that it achieves a lot of volume. I would be driving it with a Streamliner 900 or a Carvin B1000. We shall see ....