Genzler Magellan Pre... looks tasty

[el-zilcho]

@agedhorse, If you can, could you please share if either contour curve compares to the "voicing" curve on the Subway preamps?

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse, If you can, could you please share if either contour curve compares to the "voicing" curve on the Subway preamps?

Not really, the curves are quite different and even the way they work are different takes on contour/voicing.

Neither one is “better”, just very different flavors.

 

[Doug Parent]

Well this happened recently. It does what I need and then some. Love the A/B contour. B is more useful than I anticipated and helps with getting more focus and definition on my Fender Elite V. Contour A is the "modern" scoop but not too extreme. Very usable all throughout the rotation without being over the top.
18 volt output from the Voodoo Labs is quiet as can be and the output will drive anything I can throw at it.
I tried a no name budget 18 volt power supply and it was hum city so I guess quality really makes a difference at that stage. My only nit pik would be for a dedicated "engage" or "bypass" foot switch control, separate from the mute but there probably isn't enough room on the pedal itself for that and I'm sure decisions had to be made. Great tool here for the working professional.

 

[agedhorse]

Well this happened recently. It does what I need and then some. Love the A/B contour. B is more useful than I anticipated and helps with getting more focus and definition on my Fender Elite V. Contour A is the "modern" scoop but not too extreme. Very usable all throughout the rotation without being over the top.
18 volt output from the Voodoo Labs is quiet as can be and the output will drive anything I can throw at it.
I tried a no name budget 18 volt power supply and it was hum city so I guess quality really makes a difference at that stage. My only nit pik would be for a dedicated "engage" or "bypass" foot switch control, separate from the mute but there probably isn't enough room on the pedal itself for that and I'm sure decisions had to be made. Great tool here for the working professional.

There's no bypass because this is a preamp intended by design to drive power amps and other full line level balanced and unbalanced loads, along with a DI, headphone out, etc. Bypassing it would render it useless because it's not just an effects pedal but a pro touring solution that can replace a head where there's a backline amp (w/ aux or fx return input) or power amp, or just driving the PA/monitor world.

Yes, power supplies do matter regarding noise. Isolated, regulated power is necessary for low noise results.

 

[Ryan L.]

Just ordered one from Rocket Music. Knowing how fast Greg normally ships, it was probably delivered yesterday.

 

[Doug Parent]

Just ordered one from Rocket Music. Knowing how fast Greg normally ships, it was probably delivered yesterday.

Cool. People can also purchase this directly from the Genzler website.

 

[fauxtoe]

I'm very intrigued, especially with the adjustable "modern" and "vintage" contour filters. Looking at the specs, the EQ parameters are almost identical to the Nordstrand Starlifter that I currently use. The tone shaping switch is great on the Nordstrand, but being able to have them adjustable on the Genzler could prove to be very useful. The only thing missing is a thru output of which I actually do utilize, but there's workarounds for that.

 

[eeyorebass]

I have done a fair amount of cab sim analog modeling, it goes hand in hand with designing speakers once you go from an acoustic domain model to an electrical filter domain model. All the equations are more or less the same, just that the variables in the electrical domain are more familiar to me. Would there be any interest in an analog sim with user control over the variables... things like F3, F10, damping (or Q), HPF, LPF, excursion THD?

Not to derail, but I think this would be a great thing to pursue. The retirement of the DSM OmniCabSim left a big whole in the market for a bass-friendly analog cab sim/DI, IMO.

 

[odarellmc]

Not to derail, but I think this would be a great thing to pursue. The retirement of the DSM OmniCabSim left a big whole in the market for a bass-friendly analog cab sim/DI, IMO.

??? There are a ton of di/cab sims on the market. I may have misunderstood you.

 

[eeyorebass]

??? There are a ton of di/cab sims on the market. I may have misunderstood you.

Most are IR based, though, and I'd prefer more options that are analog/filter based, like the OmniCabSim was. There's the Simplifier Bass Station, but I have no need for the preamp and effects loops, and there's plenty that are optimized for guitar (e.g., Palmer PDI). The AGS circuit on the Aguilar Tone Hammer can work, but the response is basically fixed.

 

[odarellmc]

Most are IR based, though, and I'd prefer more options that are analog/filter based, like the OmniCabSim was. There's the Simplifier Bass Station, but I have no need for the preamp and effects loops, and there's plenty that are optimized for guitar (e.g., Palmer PDI). The AGS circuit on the Aguilar Tone Hammer can work, but the response is basically fixed.

Yes it's for this reason the Genzler is such a refreshing pedal, a new pure di. I agree, I love the cab sim and distortion preamp on my bass station on my source audio board. I'm sure you can find a used Omni Sim

 

[el-zilcho]

Let me help Jeff out here and answer some of the more technical and signal routing questions...



You bring up a good point, the 4OTF (and Crash Box 4 for that matter) was designed to be used with a preamp (either a bass amp or preamp pedal) rather than as a complete stand alone solution. Since preamp voicing is so player taste specific, it's better for most players to have the freedom to use it with whatever amp or preamp they prefer.

Aux in on a pedal like this is generally going to be used to play along to tracks with, therefore this signal blends with the bass signal path right at the master volume amp stage. This feeds the headphone and main outputs. The primary reason the aux signal does not go to either the pre or post DI output is that if you want to use this for recording, playing a bass track along to already recorded other instrumentation tracks, you can still use the DI outs to send the bass only signal (without the already recorded tracks) to the recording system.



It's similar but not the same because of the adjustable dual foot switchable contour paths, a feature missing from the MG-350. It's more of a hybrid between the MG-350 and MG-800. To be clear, these 3 different preamps are all Scott's designs, I just helped massage them into a pedal format similar to the other 3 pedals (4 on the Floor, Crash Box 4 and Re/Q).



With the technology behind cab sims evolving at a blistering pace, we thought that the choice between what cabinet sim type should be left up to the player. IR's, DSP models or analog models all have their place, and different players will choose different solutions based on their need and comfort with technology. For example, a cab sim that needs to be constantly updated with software and firmware may be no big deal for some players yet be a complete non-starter for others. There have been lots of examples of IR and DSP based solutions being "quirky", maybe 5 years from now those issue might disappear (or, they might get a whole lot worse), nobody really knows for sure.

I have done a fair amount of cab sim analog modeling, it goes hand in hand with designing speakers once you go from an acoustic domain model to an electrical filter domain model. All the equations are more or less the same, just that the variables in the electrical domain are more familiar to me. Would there be any interest in an analog sim with user control over the variables... things like F3, F10, damping (or Q), HPF, LPF, excursion THD?



Good question, since Jeff Scott and I are "old" and come from the pro audio world (Jeff's first company Genz Benz started out as a bass and pro audio company, (we had a line of powered mixers, biamp and triamp flyable cabinets, subs, etc.), our go to signal flow is the classic traditional "American" left to right looking from the front of the "box" (amp, preamp, mixer, or whatever), putting the input jack close to the input gain control for lowest noise and cross-talk. This is true of the Magellan amps, (input on the left, master on the right) and also the EQ (bass on the left, whereas there are companies that put input on the right, master on the left and EQ with treble on the left and bass on the right). Trickfish does the same thing for example. Since the jacks are all top mount, it doesn't impact pedalboard wiring like side mount jacks might.



Yes, since these preamps are not stereo devices, any potentially stereo signal paths are summed to mono which is the backbone of the architecture. Most pedal preamps do the same thing, though there are exceptions. This is the same as the MG-350 and MG-800 amps.



Correct, see my more complete answer above.



Since the entire backbone architecture is mono, there is no advantage to a stereo out since they would carry the same signals. This is exactly the same as on the MG-350 and MG-800 amps (and most other amps) as well



Yes, you can certainly play along with tracks, one of the fundamental features of the pedal. On the playback of the tracks, left+right will be summed, the bass added and that's what you will get out of both ears.

I would also be very interested in an analog cab simulator!
The parameters your mentioned sound great and would make it very flexible for guitar or bass use.

 

[jfiver]

I have done a fair amount of cab sim analog modeling, it goes hand in hand with designing speakers once you go from an acoustic domain model to an electrical filter domain model. All the equations are more or less the same, just that the variables in the electrical domain are more familiar to me. Would there be any interest in an analog sim with user control over the variables... things like F3, F10, damping (or Q), HPF, LPF, excursion THD?

Just catching up on this thread, and had to jump in to add myself to the chorus of 'YES' here.

 

[Wfrance3]

[QUOTE="wagdog, post: 27158612, member: 902"I find the Magellan to have a baked in ‘wooliness’ that no amount of knob twiddling would alleviate. It’s almost like the Genzler folks borrowed some dna from the Streamliner trying to make the Magellan more ‘tubey’.

[/QUOTE]

Yup, same here on the "wooliness " issue...
I like all the eq points, but there is a fuzzy edge to the tone that I can't shake. It's not a horrible sound or anything, but just a little disconcerting that it can't be dialed out...
Not a hot bass issue. I only own passive; one PJ and one P. Both behave the same, but for simplicity/argument sake, this is with a Mex P with standard issue pickup, standard factory wiring, not modified...

 

[Maxi Funkl]

Yup, same here on the "wooliness " issue...
I like all the eq points, but there is a fuzzy edge to the tone that I can't shake. It's not a horrible sound or anything, but just a little disconcerting that it can't be dialed out...
Not a hot bass issue. I only own passive; one PJ and one P. Both behave the same, but for simplicity/argument sake, this is with a Mex P with standard issue pickup, standard factory wiring, not modified...[/QUOTE]
Wooliness? means ?

 

[Wfrance3]

Any sound examples?

UPS just delivered my preamp last night. I had time to play with it for maybe an hour or a little less. No recordings just yet. I can make something tho...

Wooliness? means ?

I don't know how to describe it beyond wooly. The tone overall sounds like there is this torn speaker kind of fuzziness...

One last thing that I probably should have thought to try, but didn't was to adjust the input volume to a super low setting and then bringing the master up. to compensate. If I remember right, I have my input volume at 11 o'clock. Maybe that's too much...
Will try that and report back...

 

[JRMK]

Wait wait guys ... are you talking about wooliness baked in the OG Magellan head or baked in the new PRE/DI?

 

[odarellmc]

Wait wait guys ... are you talking about wooliness baked in the OG Magellan head or baked in the new PRE/DI?

Since this is a thread about the DI I'm assuming it for the DI....

 

[Wfrance3]

The new Pre-DI…

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Hello @Wfrance3 --- Thank you for your purchase of the MG-PRE-PEDAL. What you're experiencing is not what we would expect.
This is an extremely clean signal path so there should be no wholly tone unless something is being overdriven or a power supply.

Lot depends on a variety of items, the power supply, bass output, input level, what you're driving at the output, etc.

If you'd like to send me a PM I'm sure we can get your set up the way you'd like it. Or you can email me directly: [email protected]

Looking forward to hearing from you.