Genzler - new amp for Jan 2016

[agedhorse]

I know the module pretty well---I've used it a lot. The amp barely gets warm at 2.67. Same problem as with the 250AX2 module. The 250 is essentially operating at 2 ohms per channel but bridged.(for a 4 ohm load) Lots of problems with 250 shutting down into 4 ohms. Unless you take heat dissipation seriously. At that point (with fans or a bigger heatsink) the 250 can do 4 ohms.

The 700 module at 2 ohms is the same story. If there is more attention to heat dissipation it should do it. I've run the 1000 module into 2.67---no problem--barely got warm. Into 2 ohms I could get it to thermal cycle. If I went nuts with heat dissipation it would probably be ok---but I truly feel that running any amp to that point is unwise. Ice didn't recommend running the 250AX2 into 4 ohms. But lots of manufacturers found out that they could get 4 ohms with proper heat management.

Mike - there is SO much more going on with both the 250 as well as the new 700 modules beyond thermal concerns that to say the limits are based on just this element is WAY over-simplifying what is going on. These specifics are what separate the men from the boys with regards to successful applications.

I worked hand in hand with IcePower engineers with regard to the "off-sheet" applications and developed custom instrumentation to discover the dynamic boundary performance limits with these modules, which allowed for more meaningful customer warranty terms. None of our off sheet applications ever negatively impacted reliability, verified by IcePower.

While I know nothing about Jeff's new amp, Scott's a pretty smart and clever designer in his own right, so I would expect that he just might know more about this than the average Joe designer. He was a co-author of the patent we received on this very topic.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

My point was that the 250 was not designed to operate at 4 ohms.( in bridged mode ) Unless the Ice engineers were lying to me. In spite of this many manufacturers were able to get it to work at 4 by improving heat dissipation. Unless you consider James Demeter and theTecamp engineers rank amateurs, they had to change one thing to make the 250 reliable into 4. They both improved heat sinks and added fans. Problem solved. Both the Demeters and the Tecamps had thermal issues into 4 . Gk did not because they started out with two fans. I'm not trying to over simplify. I'm sure ( as a non engineer ) that there are many other things that go into successfully utilizing the Ice modules in an amplifier design. ( I am a few notches above a complete idiot)

My point was just addressing reliability as it relates to operating the amp at an impedance that it was not intended to function with. . ( as per the Ice engineers).

I think that if someone buys any of the 700 module based amps and intends on slamming that amp at two ohms is asking for trouble.

 

[agedhorse]

My point was that the 250 was not designed to operate at 4 ohms.( in bridged mode ) Unless the Ice engineers were lying to me. In spite of this many manufacturers were able to get it to work at 4 by improving heat dissipation. Unless you consider James Demeter and theTecamp engineers rank amateurs, they had to change one thing to make the 250 reliable into 4. They both improved heat sinks and added fans. Problem solved. Both the Demeters and the Tecamps had thermal issues into 4 . Gk did not because they started out with two fans. I'm not trying to over simplify. I'm sure ( as a non engineer ) that there are many other things that go into successfully utilizing the Ice modules in an amplifier design. ( I am a few notches above a complete idiot)

My point was just addressing reliability as it relates to operating the amp at an impedance that it was not intended to function with. . ( as per the Ice engineers).

I think that if someone buys any of the 700 module based amps and intends on slamming that amp at two ohms is asking for trouble.

My suggestion is that you maybe didn't get the complete picture.

We never ever had any issues driving the 250 at 4 ohms, we completely understood the technology behind the part, and it's real world limits before we ever released a finished product. Same applies to the 700 module (at 2 ohms). You can slam them hard with no ill effects because the products were designed to do this without shutting down, glitching, or whatever the popular failure mode is these days.

 

[B-string]

I'm in the camp of a lightweight high power amp needing a "rack mount" is akin to mounting a fifth wheel to a Porsche. I had a hand held flip tuner that was on top of my amp before I bought a Patchblack pedal. I found a rack too cumbersome with a Fusion 550 and it is no flyweight on its own. Mounting one of these in a rack twice the amp's weight? Personally I don't get it.

 

[ErnieD]

Genzler throwing in a nice, custom carry bag for this amp like Mesa did, woulda been kinda cool. I carry my GB 12.2 in a backpack, slides in sideways with plenty of pockets for all the extra cables, mic, etc I carry with this amp. Custom bag included gives manufacturer great place to add their brand name. Free with amp purchase; just a nice touch.
I use a GB NeoX 112+NX2-212 often with my 12.2. So still like to hear more on the Magellan as thread moves along.

 

[fenjazz]

I just pre-ordered the Magellan 800 at Bass String Online. Looking to pair it with my 4ohm Tecamp S212.

 

[RBASS930]

 

[Vince Klortho]

FWIW, I have a very hard time rationalizing putting any expensive gear in a soft bag. As quite a few people have mentioned in this forum over the years, a smaller standardized rack format is sorely overdue IMHO.

Definitely! I think an inner width of about 12 inches would be just about right. To allow room for the ears that would leave about 11 inches for the devices and most of the small class D amps are actually a little less. Thinner cabinets with tens are about 12 inches wide or more so that should be the width. Use multiples of the standard 1U height and you would have just the ticket. This would be really handy with smaller cabinets that use tens or twelves because it would fit nicely on them. The key would be for someone to just do it. I mean a few amp builders need to agree on the form factor and then link up with SKB and/or Gator to get the racks made and it might just take off.

 

[kringle77]

I think that these may be shipping to dealers this week.

 

[jnewmark]

I have been using the soft carry bags for my GB Shuttle, and MB F500 amps for years now, with no problems. I only use a pedal tuner, so, I pretty much plug and play. Most of my gigs are within 50 miles of home, so not real hard road travel. However, a nice, hard shell rack case that is a custom fit for these amps would be nice for those of us who are on the road a lot, or travel with all the band's gear in a van, which I did for years, and used SKB cases. There were a couple of TB'ers who posted pics of hard shell video and photography cases that they modded to carry these small heads, but I have yet to see some diy rack cases.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

I think that these may be shipping to dealers this week.

Yes, this is correct. Current dealers will receive the first units starting later this week. All dealers are listed on our website.
UK, Japan and AUS dealers should also have their first shipments within a couple of weeks, too.

 

[rmars]

Not sure what to think after seeing all the demos, they all kinda sound the same except for the gain channel (which sounds okay but I'll never use). I believe it was Tom Bowlus that had described it as growly but I'm not hearing that in any of the clips and the top end always seems subdued. I was really hoping for clean, bright and lively with some slam. I had pre-ordered one but I'm thinking I may cancel it until I can try one or I hear something that blows me away.

Edit; After talking with Jeff and getting some more feedback from Tom I'm going to go ahead with my order. Looking forward to hearing the amp in person.

 

[5544]

I am really wondering why all the demo videos I see are using different cabs for different settings.

 

[tombowlus]

Not sure what to think after seeing all the demos, they all kinda sound the same except for the gain channel (which sounds okay but I'll never use). I believe it was Tom Bowlus that had described it as growly but I'm not hearing that in any of the clips and the top end always seems subdued. I was really hoping for clean, bright and lively with some slam. I had pre-ordered one but I'm thinking I may cancel it until I can try one or I hear something that blows me away.

I should have said something along the lines of "eager to growl." It is a clean-sounding amp, but when I play a remotely growly bass through it, the growl really pops. Now, this probably depends in part on what you think of as "growl." I don't think of it as an overdriven tone (like "grit" or "grind"), but rather that distinct attack and more aggressive articulation in the upper mids.

 

[bass nitro]

I should have said something along the lines of "eager to growl." It is a clean-sounding amp, but when I play a remotely growly bass through it, the growl really pops. Now, this probably depends in part on what you think of as "growl." I don't think of it as an overdriven tone (like "grit" or "grind"), but rather that distinct attack and more aggressive articulation in the upper mids.

Mr.Bowlus,how do you like this amp, compared Puma and D800 to?Is it a good platform pedals for?
Thank you.

 

[rmars]

I should have said something along the lines of "eager to growl." It is a clean-sounding amp, but when I play a remotely growly bass through it, the growl really pops. Now, this probably depends in part on what you think of as "growl." I don't think of it as an overdriven tone (like "grit" or "grind"), but rather that distinct attack and more aggressive articulation in the upper mids.

Thanks for your insight Tom, your description still sounds like what I'm looking for. Did you happen to try it thru your HD212?

 

[Combinator]

Not sure what to think after seeing all the demos, they all kinda sound the same except for the gain channel (which sounds okay but I'll never use). I believe it was Tom Bowlus that had described it as growly but I'm not hearing that in any of the clips and the top end always seems subdued. I was really hoping for clean, bright and lively with some slam. I had pre-ordered one but I'm thinking I may cancel it until I can try one or I hear something that blows me away.

Hey rmars, it sounds like you shared Tom's concept on what makes "growl" for you - I think that's one of those terms that can mean so many things to different people. If you're talking about getting a clean, aggressive, present but not harsh, potentially burpy sound, the Clean channel will get you there. You may even want to dial in a bit of Contour A, juts for the way in which it begins to but high mids, so you can thrash around a bit more without it offending ear drums. I may have misunderstood what you're going for, but if I'm off just let me know and I'll do my best to answer your questions by speaking to my own experiences with the amp. I also feel like this kind of tone becomes more apparent and more satisfying at a certain volume and louder - that darn Fletcher-Munson thing at work again

By the way, I just played a killer show this last Saturday with three bands - all of them using the MG800 through my Genzler BA12-3 cab (8 Ohms) and another large cab (4 Ohms), all night, with no issues whatsoever. 2.67 Ohm stable for 3+ hours at high volume, with some pretty peaky effects at times! With the two cabs hooked up, I can tell you - the rig seemed quite a bit louder than the 800 Watt rating might suggest. The amp didn't even feel hot afterward

 

[Jim C]

I just pre-ordered the Magellan 800 at Bass String Online. Looking to pair it with my 4ohm Tecamp S212.

The VIP pricing at bassstringsonline (once placed in the cart) is very good.

 

[tombowlus]

Mr.Bowlus,how do you like this amp, compared Puma and D800 to?Is it a good platform pedals for?
Thank you.

I definitely like the Magellan, but I like the Puma and D-800, too. They each bring unique things to the table. To my ears, the Magellan is the most cutting and articulate, the Puma 900 would be the most smooth, and the D-800 would be the most warm/round, but each of those heads can do a lot more, and they are each very versatile. They all have different means of tweaking their tone/character, which is cool. I think that personal preferences will dictate which amp is best for which player. They are all highly competent, for sure.

 

[tombowlus]

Thanks for your insight Tom, your description still sounds like what I'm looking for. Did you happen to try it thru your HD212?

Yes, indeed! My HD212 gets played with about everything that crosses my path. The Magellan plays very nicely, indeed, with the HD212, and of course the BA12-3, as well.