• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Gibson Acquires Mesa/Boogie

#381
Heavy Blue said:
That’s deadly DJ!:thumbsup: What cab is that?


Yeah, agreed re the time/effort for 200w vs 800w. It’s a conundrum all right.

Yeah, the fan is loud but mine isn’t too loud imo. Once I’m playing I don’t hear it anyway lol.

PJB is out of my budget these days as Mesa is too. I was really fortunate to have ever gotten the WA in the first place.

PJB kind of turned me off when I was reading an article where he was talking about how good the QC is and how nothing bad leaves the factory and to prove his point he proceeds to show a truly massive outdoor pile of what I presume was stuff that flunked QC. That, to me, is not good QC. That is being massively environmentally irresponsible. It really turned me off and I’m not an green extremist either. Interesting gear though to be sure.

As for HD. I really am not up on most of the latest and greatest from them. I still have the old rigid shovelhead literally right here next to my bass rig.

It (electric) does seem to be the way of the future though and HD has to keep making a profit one way or the other. Gotta admit the prospect of riding something in the future that sounds like a sewing machine after decades of riding a pre-evo rigid with straight shotguns is not something I’m particularly looking forward to.o_O:confused:
Click to expand...

Worse, there'll be fake engine sounds and LOUD reverse *beep-beep-beeeeeeps* for "safety".

Hold on to the old iron as long as you can, WalkAbout very much included.

I haven't seen that PJB video. Good point. The stuff of theirs that I've opened was surprisingly well put together. I'd say overbuilt. I only mentioned the brand as one that's renown for being small and punching above its size & weight.

I'm a fan of cool, stay-at-home smaller/lighter practice gear myself, but as counterpoint and gettin back on-topic I think that space is very crowded by now and Mesa's probably made its offerings with the Subway series. Gibson/MESA may be better served going "all-American BIG IRON!" (use monster truck promo voice with lots of reverb when reading that) with a 200w tube amp a-la Orange and Traynor's more recent offerings in that space.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
#382
StayLow said:
Worse, there'll be fake engine sounds and LOUD reverse *beep-beep-beeeeeeps* for "safety".

Hold on to the old iron as long as you can, WalkAbout very much included.

I haven't seen that PJB video. Good point. The stuff of theirs that I've opened was surprisingly well put together. I'd say overbuilt. I only mentioned the brand as one that's renown for being small and punching above its size & weight.

I'm a fan of cool, stay-at-home smaller/lighter practice gear myself, but as counterpoint and gettin back on-topic I think that space is very crowded by now and Mesa's probably made its offerings with the Subway series. Gibson/MESA may be better served going "all-American BIG IRON!" (use monster truck promo voice with lots of reverb when reading that) with a 200w tube amp a-la Orange and Traynor's more recent offerings in that space.
Click to expand...
Yep! Gonna be hanging onto that old iron for sure. Loud reverse beeps? Heck, this thing doesn’t even have a horn lol. A headlight, taillight, and brake lights are the only concessions to street legality. Still using hand signals for turns. The local lads in blue around here are pretty decent about these sorts of things once they’ve established to their satisfaction that you aren’t serving the forces of whatever omc is in your area. I’m very independent and “support” no one. My back is still holding up at 53 too.:thumbsup:

As far as PJB goes the other thing that bugs me is if everything’s made in China where the cost of manufacture is as cheap as dirt then why is it so expensive? It seems to me he’s charging made in NA prices for Chinese cost to manufacture goods and pocketing the difference. It would be like charging MIA prices for a MIM Fender. Once again, I have no issue with the gear itself and hopefully somewhere along the way I’ll get to try one out. I’ve looked at the portable one that could be suited for busking. Interesting piece of kit.

You do have a point about that crowded competitive space irt the small gear. They may well be better off sticking to their established turf with the bigger guns. It’s what they know and do really well. Maybe we’ll see a return of the Prodigy/Strategy series and they’ll be the “Big Guns” for Gibson’s gear. However, I’m checking out a MB200 too so...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop and StayLow
#385
JTE said:
Regarding Epiphone-
That's a unique situation. Epiphone was a serious competitor to Gibson through the '40s, as serious jazz players' instruments of choice. When the founder died his family didn't want to run the company so stared selling it. Besides guitars they also had a double bass business.? CMI, the parent company of Gibson bought the bass business. When they started unpacking the crates in Kalamazoo they found not only bass jigs, parts, and WIP, but guitar as well. CMI check with their attorneys who confirmed they could legally market guitars with the Epiphone brand. This was in the '50s. They used the brand to offer Kalamazoo-made guitars to CMI dealers that were not Gibson dealers and had a Gibson dealer >n their market already. The Epiphone instruments were made in Kalamazoo not only in the same factory as Gibson but the same assembly line by the same workers. Many Epiphone instruments were the same as the wquivGibson model, such as the Casino/ES330, most flattop guitars, etc. Many others had minor cosmetic a d some hardware differences, especially pickups. The Shearton was an ES335 with Epiphone mini 'buckers. Gibson changed Epiphone to an import only brand around '69, and those through most of the '70s were pretty much just Japanese instruments that had at most z vague superficial resemblance to any Gibson or previous Epiphone products. That changed in late '80s when they started having them made to be more authentic (at least cosmetically) versions of specific Gibson models. And that seems to have worked well for them.
Click to expand...

Epiphone when on the block after Epi died in '43 and was left to his brothers. There was a strike in '51 and the luthiers that walked out started Guild with Alfred Dronge in '53. Alfred's son is Marc Dronge that founded and owns DR strings. After the strike ended Epiphone moved operations from NYC to Philadelphia and was purchased by CMI/Gibson in '57. There was fierce competition between Epi and Gibson in the archtop guitar wars and Gibson bought it so they could (A) shut down the archtop division and (B) market what were essentially Gibson guitars under the Epi name thus doubling their dealer network in the US. I personally own a 1941 Epiphone Broadway archtop and it is a magnificent guitar.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coreyfyfe, DJ Bebop, GregC and 4 others
#386
laklandplayer said:
Epiphone when on the block after Epi died in '43 and was left to his brothers. There was a strike in '51 and the luthiers that walked out started Guild with Alfred Dronge in '53. Alfred's son is Marc Dronge that founded and owns DR strings. After the strike ended Epiphone moved operations from NYC to Philadelphia and was purchased by CMI/Gibson in '57. There was fierce competition between Epi and Gibson in the archtop guitar wars and Gibson bought it so they could (A) shut down the archtop division and (B) market what were essentially Gibson guitars under the Epi name thus doubling their dealer network in the US. I personally own a 1941 Epiphone Broadway archtop and it is a magnificent guitar.
Click to expand...

Accounts vary. Guild Historian Hans Moust published an excerpt from the April '52 Music Trades which states "After being closed for four months due to labor difficulties, Epiphone has resumed operations. During the period the plant was closed, Epiphone expanded it's facilities, moving a part of it's plant to larger quarters in Philidelphia and another part to its new address in New York City."

Hans Moust also discusses the origins of Guild. I'll summarize.
It was at that time that George Mann (former sales manager and VP of Epiphone) approached Alfred Dronge and convinced him that they should start a guitar company and hire some of the Epiphone workers who were of Italian decent and wanted to stay in Little Italy rather then move to Philly.

There's more history in the Guild book, but his account and the historical document makes me question some of the accounts I've heard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coreyfyfe, DJ Bebop, GregC and 3 others
#387
laklandplayer said:
Epiphone when on the block after Epi died in '43 and was left to his brothers. There was a strike in '51 and the luthiers that walked out started Guild with Alfred Dronge in '53. Alfred's son is Marc Dronge that founded and owns DR strings. After the strike ended Epiphone moved operations from NYC to Philadelphia and was purchased by CMI/Gibson in '57. There was fierce competition between Epi and Gibson in the archtop guitar wars and Gibson bought it so they could (A) shut down the archtop division and (B) market what were essentially Gibson guitars under the Epi name thus doubling their dealer network in the US. I personally own a 1941 Epiphone Broadway archtop and it is a magnificent guitar.
Click to expand...

Tom Wheeler's book "American Guitars" goes into some details about the Epiphone to CMI sale, including the details of the bass business, and the franchise constraints. And as Jazz4Me (Hi, Jim!) says, the Hans Moust book gives details about Guild's Genesis no which do not contradict Wheeler's more cursory discussion bof Guild.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coreyfyfe, DJ Bebop and StayLow
#392
burgerdj said:
I didn’t know that Mesa was for sale. Maybe we should have taken up a collection.

Whatever the motivation, I hope Gibson doesn’t bottom-line manage this as it has notoriously in the past. I would have thought the Gibson would use their available resources to get their own quality back up to snuff rather than pursue acquisitions.
Click to expand...

At 75 yrs, perhaps Smith decided it was time to cash out. Gotta think of the kids and grandkids...
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop
#393
Gateway products aren’t always great.
BMW M235i (current one) being a star example.


If Mesa wants to make a Mesa amp that is simple and costs less that’s one thing. If Mesa wants to sell amps at a cheap price point that’s another thing.

Also, Gibson is best, okay, play authentic.
 
#394
therumour said:
At 75 yrs, perhaps Smith decided it was time to cash out. Gotta think of the kids and grandkids...
Click to expand...
Yup :)
641024_r27604.jpg

220px-Neil_Young_1976_closeup.jpg

b9070edf5fca26e14cbf8ee7e6671d01.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Haroldo and timplog
#395
Element Zero said:
You have? Interesting. I’ve noticed the exact opposite.
Click to expand...
Me, too. I have a number of Mesa products and they are all great. Strangely enough, I was considering selling my Prodigy head because I just don't use it. My Subway + preamp thingie is working great through the PA (with subwoofer) so I don't need cabs and heads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop, Ethereal Thorn and Element Zero
#396
SteveC said:
Nothing good happens when great independent companies are swallowed up. SWR, Eden, Genz Benz, all disappeared. I think some Genz Benz tech maybe made it into the new Rumble amps. Genzler has resurfaced under that name and is making great stuff. That doesn't seem to be the norm though. Maybe I'm wrong.

Ampeg is still Ampeg under Yamaha I believe. We'll see what happens to Aguilar and Mesa/Boogie I guess.
Click to expand...
I saw what happened when SWR sold.I still own my mid 90s - SM 400s with 2 Goliath jr.cabinets.A great rig still.After the sale they weren't so much,imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop and MordBass
#397
bklee said:
Me, too. I have a number of Mesa products and they are all great. Strangely enough, I was considering selling my Prodigy head because I just don't use it. My Subway + preamp thingie is working great through the PA (with subwoofer) so I don't need cabs and heads.
Click to expand...
I’ve wanted a Prodigy for awhile now. Had a fantastic gig experience with one and a Powerhouse 610 a few years ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DJ Bebop

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back