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Here's my Gibson 6-stringer with little matching 8-string friend; there was a Mesa Nomad combo but these days I just plug the THD head into the Ampeg 112 with the tweeter turned off.
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Gibson Acquires Mesa/Boogie
- Thread starter braud357
- Start date
Re. "Nail in the coffin " comments. Ya don't put the nails in the ciffuntil the body is already in there. Lots of the defunct companies were in serious trouble before being acquired. See Aged Horse's post with the factual discussion of Trace/Elliott history. Look up the history of SWR.
...and again, remember it takes two to tango. In both Mesa and Aguilar's case, the company management TOOK THE OFFER to be bought. They were not hostile takeovers or takeovers as the result of a liquidation or anything representing a failure of a brand. In Mesa's case, it's right in the press release... to paraphrase: "I'm old, I'm tired, I want out..." lol!
Funny, it wasn't that long ago that people here wished someone would take over Pedulla and were shocked when he just kinda let it die on the vine. Lots of armchair businesspeople on TalkBassHPF.
For starters, plenty of successful companies get sold for all sorts of reasons. Are you saying that Mesa was in the can up until this week?Not sure if that makes sense to me... if Trace Elliot were on top of the world how come they were even for sale? And Ned Steinberger voluntarily sold his brand - including the brand name - then went on to create something far more unique, inventive and successful than anything that happened under that original Steinberger brand name. Those headless wedges were an 80s fad. As for Epiphone, a seminal brand in its own right but it was amusing to see them out-compete their owner for a while (no-one is immune to a little schadenfreude).
I guess the anti-Gibson brand tribalism continues
Secondly, What does voluntarily selling Steinberger have anything to do with the massive quality drop once Gibson took over? It also doesn't matter what Ned did afterwards. MTD's success doesn't erase the joke that Gibson turned Tobias into. Equally true is that the headless basses being a fad has nothing to do with the lack of quality and craftsmanship under Gibson.
As for Epiphone, they were originally a main competitor to Gibson before being reduced to a budget line after the sale. Sure, Epiphone puts out some great stuff for the price these days because that's what Gibson purposed them as. Foreign made clones to their own line of products.
So is it really fair to say "anti-Gibson brand tribalism", when there is so much verified history to support the concerns? Or maybe would it be more appropriate to to point out the Gibson fanbois that keep tightening the blinders as the years go by?
Did I miss something? How do you have a Mark “VI”? Or is that what a wishlist item?
Regarding Epiphone-
That's a unique situation. Epiphone was a serious competitor to Gibson through the '40s, as serious jazz players' instruments of choice. When the founder died his family didn't want to run the company so stared selling it. Besides guitars they also had a double bass business.? CMI, the parent company of Gibson bought the bass business. When they started unpacking the crates in Kalamazoo they found not only bass jigs, parts, and WIP, but guitar as well. CMI check with their attorneys who confirmed they could legally market guitars with the Epiphone brand. This was in the '50s. They used the brand to offer Kalamazoo-made guitars to CMI dealers that were not Gibson dealers and had a Gibson dealer >n their market already. The Epiphone instruments were made in Kalamazoo not only in the same factory as Gibson but the same assembly line by the same workers. Many Epiphone instruments were the same as the wquivGibson model, such as the Casino/ES330, most flattop guitars, etc. Many others had minor cosmetic a d some hardware differences, especially pickups. The Shearton was an ES335 with Epiphone mini 'buckers. Gibson changed Epiphone to an import only brand around '69, and those through most of the '70s were pretty much just Japanese instruments that had at most z vague superficial resemblance to any Gibson or previous Epiphone products. That changed in late '80s when they started having them made to be more authentic (at least cosmetically) versions of specific Gibson models. And that seems to have worked well for them.
That's a unique situation. Epiphone was a serious competitor to Gibson through the '40s, as serious jazz players' instruments of choice. When the founder died his family didn't want to run the company so stared selling it. Besides guitars they also had a double bass business.? CMI, the parent company of Gibson bought the bass business. When they started unpacking the crates in Kalamazoo they found not only bass jigs, parts, and WIP, but guitar as well. CMI check with their attorneys who confirmed they could legally market guitars with the Epiphone brand. This was in the '50s. They used the brand to offer Kalamazoo-made guitars to CMI dealers that were not Gibson dealers and had a Gibson dealer >n their market already. The Epiphone instruments were made in Kalamazoo not only in the same factory as Gibson but the same assembly line by the same workers. Many Epiphone instruments were the same as the wquivGibson model, such as the Casino/ES330, most flattop guitars, etc. Many others had minor cosmetic a d some hardware differences, especially pickups. The Shearton was an ES335 with Epiphone mini 'buckers. Gibson changed Epiphone to an import only brand around '69, and those through most of the '70s were pretty much just Japanese instruments that had at most z vague superficial resemblance to any Gibson or previous Epiphone products. That changed in late '80s when they started having them made to be more authentic (at least cosmetically) versions of specific Gibson models. And that seems to have worked well for them.
Lol I was about to ask, where I could get one. I figured you meant 4
Possibly a design based on the headless bass they made for Nathan East. Yamaha also had the BX-1 back in the mid-80s - their take on the Steinberger.
Honestly, both Tobias and Steinberger designs from that time period are a bit dated. Both designers have gone on to do great things that are more up-to-date.
Point is, they both probably sold out at a good time to do it.
And, the BX-5 (first 5-string I ever bought, back in the summer of '87). Earlier this century I owned a BX-1.
The most encouraging aspects of this deal, to me, are 1) the fact that (as far as I know) Gibson is not currently in the amplification market and 2), they have more/ wider distribution muscle. These 2 make me hopeful their intent may be to push Mesa further. I do not think that their history of guitar brand acquisitions is directly applicable to their delving into the amp side of things. They were not competing with Mesa, and the new jewel in their crown will produce true synergies. The danger, however, is that virtually inevitably, the parent company will look hard, wide and deep for what they perceive to be redundancies in staffing at all levels.....when personnel decisions are made, the best interests of the Mesa brand may (some, I included, would say "will likely") be secondary to other factors......such as preference given to Gibson personnel, or those earning less. Time will tell.
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Well IMHO, that was one of the only choices:
Say you want to retire and hope to see that particular company going, and you want to retain made in USA / American owned. So in that part of the music business you have 5 possibilities.
Fender, Gibson, Peavey, Ernie Ball or Leverage buyout by employees. But if employees are not interested (not everybody wants to mortgage the house...), you end up with 'Leo', 'Orville', Hartley and Ernie in the line-up.
Then it is a balance between their commitment, the cash, and well... (in the words of Mike Matthews about business decisions) the gut feeling.
I do not see a reason for being pessimistic.
(In fact I'm already paying they cross breed the Buster and the Gibson Titan!!)
Say you want to retire and hope to see that particular company going, and you want to retain made in USA / American owned. So in that part of the music business you have 5 possibilities.
Fender, Gibson, Peavey, Ernie Ball or Leverage buyout by employees. But if employees are not interested (not everybody wants to mortgage the house...), you end up with 'Leo', 'Orville', Hartley and Ernie in the line-up.
Then it is a balance between their commitment, the cash, and well... (in the words of Mike Matthews about business decisions) the gut feeling.
I do not see a reason for being pessimistic.
(In fact I'm already paying they cross breed the Buster and the Gibson Titan!!)
Yep! I’ll go with what Andy has to say on this one given his unique perspective irt Mesa and his imo impeccable track record on here. He hasn’t done me wrong yet. Not once.
Agreed irt distribution and I hope it does as distribution up here is very limited as apparently the closest L&M to here isn’t sticking Mesa stuff anymore and even when they did it was more Dual & Triple Rectifiers and Mark V’s than bass gear.
I really hope the AMF analogy proves to be false. I had an AMF-era Harley. ‘77 XLCH. Great bike but needed it’s TLC for sure. Being the standard bearer for Gibson’s amps would be so much better. At least as long as Gibson stays the heck out of it and let the Mesa folks do what they do best.
I’d like to see some nice home amps. Not everyone needs 800 watts or wants a Fender/Ampeg/GK/Peavey. My current living room rig is stupid overkill for my actual needs and I’d like to downsize appropriately but not lose the tone to do it.
I still have an OG pre-Gibson Walkabout though. I guessing it’s stock is gonna rise now. It’s even overkill at home much of the time now.
Wouldn’t a 100-200 watt ultra-light amp & portable 1x10” with an additional 1x10” cab be nice to get?
We sure can hope indeed. Finding anything other than Peaveys, Fenders other than Rumbles, non-combo Ampegs, and Traynors around here is not the norm unfortunately. Not bashing any of the above but it would be nice to have some more options locally.
Schroeder?
Walkabout's fan alone is overkill for living room use, not to mention the amp's output.
PJB makes great home hardware that works for lighter rehearsals and gigs.
Seems with modern technology an 800w is essentially the same size and little more cost than a 200w, so maybe tough to justify the costs of creating, safety-approving, marketing and manufacturing a new smaller/quieter offering esp. when the MESA brand is seems to be best known for volume and primarily used in rock & metal.
As a Harley fan, do you think all the time and money they've put into electric cycles makes sense given what the brand is famous for?
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An old Eden CX 110.
It's a coaxial 1x10 rated at 200 watts.
There was some who wanting a 300 watt Mesa amp. Myself I don't see the need as the current crop can drop to 300 watts with the ohm switch on the back. I'm running mine that way when I run this little cab, even thought its rating at 200 watts. I keep my foot outta it, use the HPF, remember it's a 1x10 and not a 8x10
Works fine!
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That’s deadly DJ!
What cab is that?Yeah, agreed re the time/effort for 200w vs 800w. It’s a conundrum all right.
Yeah, the fan is loud but mine isn’t too loud imo. Once I’m playing I don’t hear it anyway lol.
PJB is out of my budget these days as Mesa is too. I was really fortunate to have ever gotten the WA in the first place.
PJB kind of turned me off when I was reading an article where he was talking about how good the QC is and how nothing bad leaves the factory and to prove his point he proceeds to show a truly massive outdoor pile of what I presume was stuff that flunked QC. That, to me, is not good QC. That is being massively environmentally irresponsible. It really turned me off and I’m not an green extremist either. Interesting gear though to be sure.
As for HD. I really am not up on most of the latest and greatest from them and tbh most of it doesn’t interest me as modern HD’s and the scene with it has gotten imo, kind of boring. That’s a chat for a different day though.
I still have the old rigid shovelhead literally right here next to my bass rig. Every part has literally been through my fingers. What electric leg? Less is more...405 lbs wet and will still give modern HD’s more than a good run for their money for the first 1/8th mile lol.
It (electric) does seem to be the way of the future though and HD has to keep making a profit one way or the other. Gotta admit the prospect of riding something in the future that sounds like a sewing machine after decades of riding a pre-evo rigid with straight shotguns is not something I’m particularly looking forward to.
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