Good 18" + cab?

[greenboy]

"I myself use an Ampeg 18"

I never knew Ampeg had a 1x18 cabinet.

Link Removed It's in the bottom right corner of every post. Press it and become readable ; }

My cab is an Ampeg 1832 Extreme. 4 ohms. They might use the same 18" driver for their 18-only cab.

 

[pedro]

(pedro rubs eyes, and re-reads Greenboy's post hoping to understand some of it.)

So subs can or can't be used for bass cabinets?

 

[James Hart]

It's in the bottom right corner of every post. Press it and become readable ; }

sorry, I thought his posts were perfectly clear. Besides, when replying to multiple questions within the same post... it's a lot more involved than simply hitting a button

 

[greenboy]

sorry, I thought his posts were perfectly clear. Besides, when replying to multiple questions within the same post... it's a lot more involved than simply hitting a button

Well, then. I guess we differ in many ways. I find it mildy annoying to wade through them when quoting from them to answer questions. Especially when kicked back and squinting at 1600x1200. Which is why I should probably just avoid them from now on. Carry on, men.

 

[joegeezer]

18's are better than they ever were these days. They have also evolved along with all other drivers. I still like an 18.
Remember Bill F. says that the cab picks of the pro's are:
1- 410
2- 810
3- 410 and an 18

 

[A9X]

(pedro rubs eyes, and re-reads Greenboy's post hoping to understand some of it.)

So subs can or can't be used for bass cabinets?

Yes. However, all speakers begin to become more directional above a certain frequency, and at another frequency, the speaker will start to break up* or go into uncontrolled vibration. The larger the driver the lower both of these happen, so with a bigger driver such as an 18, it's best to cross to something smaller to get a more even sounding, better dispersed sound from the low-mids on up. It's how hifi and PA do it.

*Break up can sound great for guitars, but not necessarily for bass.

 

[pedro]

Sorry I didn't realize the quotes was such a big deal. I know how to quote one thing but don't know how to do it when quoting multiple items from different post.

 

[greenboy]

Sorry I didn't realize the quotes was such a big deal. I know how to quote one thing but don't know how to do it when quoting multiple items from different post.

Ah, don't let me get to you ; }

 

[James Hart]

*Break up can sound great for guitars, but not necessarily for bass.

I happen to want speaker break up with my bass. I think it's a good part of some of my favorite bass tones.

Sorry I didn't realize the quotes was such a big deal.

It's not... you made perfect sense.

If you want to quote say... 3 whole posts you can hit this button on the first 2 posts and then the regular quote button for the last one

That's what I did to grab you and A9X this time.

 

[greenboy]

Anyway, with the Ampeg 1832 Extreme pictured earlier the 18" driver is being treated as a true subwoofer, on the low side of a passive crossover, with the other drivers also running in selected bandpasses controlled by the 4-way passive crossover. This lets each driver be selected for doing the best job possible in a narrower range - ferinstance those Tens are more sensitive than you find in almost any bass cabs and the typically harsh Fosterx tweeter sounds a lot better crossed over higher than you usually hear, and with those 6.5 midrange cones filling the usual gap below that.

The cab can also be biamped with an active crossover dividing it in effect into an 18 cab, and a passively-crossed top cab. This allows more power to be applied to each subsection, and more clean SPL is attainable. This cab is very loud and very much like one side of a good club PA as far as clarity and flat response is concerned, though a few things could be changed if the price were higher to make it have slightly better characteristics yet.

 

[joegeezer]

Pedro, clear out your PM's. It won't send you any more till you do!

 

[!Rob!]

Tell me why on earth, in this day and age, would you want to play through an 18" speaker? I am really interested in your reasoning.

Thanks

I have the exact same as "J Hart" the Peavey 1820, with the exception I custom made it into a 2/10 and 1/18, and I love it better than anything I have played through in the past.

And I have to agree with JH, it's all about tone and feel....I was thinking of adding another 2/10, but I really don't think I need to, I have excellent top end and mids, and thunderous lows, exactly what I was looking for.

 

[pedro]

Ah, don't let me get to you ; }

Cool I'll try to do better with the quote thing. Anyway, the technical aspects of sound production and acoustics is something I just don't know anything about. And I try to read your post to learn (albeit I'm afraid a lot of it goes over my head). So where were we?

 

[pedro]

I happen to want speaker break up with my bass. I think it's a good part of some of my favorite bass tones.

Ditto.

Pedro, clear out your PM's. It won't send you any more till you do!

Done.

 

[greenboy]

And I try to read your post to learn (albeit I'm afraid a lot of it goes over my head). So where were we?

Well, skip the parts about horn-loaded enclosures because they aren't really pertinent in this case anyway. And re-reading it I could have been clearer.

In the case of the Peavey 1820 and the Ampeg Extreme a passive crossover is being used to allow the drivers (speakers) of each size to work in the range they are best at, and if done right that also allows one to use a two-channel amplifier, if desired, to put even more power into the cab for more loudness.

The biggest improvement those cabs can give you over say an 18" bass cab and a 410 cab both running full-range is that the 18" is staying out of the way of the other speakers, and vice versa, each able to do what it does best instead of trying to cover the entire spectrum.

That in turn actually makes it possible use speakers that specialize in only a portion of the entire frequency range, which usually makes them more successful at making a good composite sound at higher levels.

In the case of the 1820, which is a very old design, one can select modern components that handle more power better and optimize it without losing what was so great about it inthe first place.

You can also approach this strategy with separate cabs, but instead of running each cabinet full-range use either a good passive crossover, or an active rack-mounted one and a professional two-channel power amp/preamp combination.

 

[pedro]

The biggest improvement those cabs can give you over say an 18" bass cab and a 410 cab both running full-range is that the 18" is staying out of the way of the other speakers, and vice versa, each able to do what it does best instead of trying to cover the entire spectrum.

That in turn actually makes it possible use speakers that specialize in only a portion of the entire frequency range, which usually makes them more successful at making a good composite sound at higher levels.

In the case of the 1820, which is a very old design, one can select modern components that handle more power better and optimize it without losing what was so great about it inthe first place.

That I understand. Thanks for being patient.

 

[lunarpollen]

So subs can or can't be used for bass cabinets?

They can be, but they might not be ideal for a particular sound... I've been using a Yamaha SW118 for months as one of my cabinets and am hoping to replace it (and my other cabs) soon with higher-end cabs that will get me a more even and full sound. My monolithic Traynor 18" cabinet was designed for bass guitar, but it's 33 years old and is better suited for throwing out a lot of low end deep into a larger room, but it doesnt really put out a lot of clear smooth tone that you can hear well while you play, unless both it and you are on top of a hollow stage; then you can feel all the notes (but step off the stage, and it sounds like someone unplugs your cabinet... but the people in the back of the room will hear you fine... it's weird). And it's not very practical for the room geometry and sound volumes typical of a tiny venue or a practice space.

Anyway, I learned my lesson and plan to get a modern cabinet or two that are carefully engineered to sound good for bass guitar. My 18's would probably sound nicer as part of a more-powerful rig, or as low end thumpers in a PA system, but they don't really do much for making bass notes sound musical for me....

 

[pedro]

You can also approach this strategy with separate cabs, but instead of running each cabinet full-range use either a good passive crossover, or an active rack-mounted one and a professional two-channel power amp/preamp combination.

I'm a little lost here. What is a passive crossover? I use a GK 700RB does it have one?

 

[csholtmeier]

The things are just to large for most people, if they are actually acting as horn-loaded at the lower frequencies.

What about Bill Fitzmaurice Design's Titan39? I've got one with the glue drying right now that's pretty much the same dimensions as my Ampeg 610hlf.

With two neo12's I think it would give any 18 a serious run for its money.

 

[lunarpollen]

The biggest improvement those cabs can give you over say an 18" bass cab and a 410 cab both running full-range is that the 18" is staying out of the way of the other speakers, and vice versa, each able to do what it does best instead of trying to cover the entire spectrum.

That in turn actually makes it possible use speakers that specialize in only a portion of the entire frequency range, which usually makes them more successful at making a good composite sound at higher levels.

And I think that's been a lot of my problem with just plugging in a cheap 2x10 bass cab and an 1x18 PA cab into a crappy 450-watt head. The amp is sending out the same signal to each so both cabs are getting frequencies they aren't best suited for.