Goth: Share Your Faves

[ardgedee]

I'm a huge Cure fan and have been for 30+ years. I'm the type for whom "the real Cure" is in the early albums, with Pornography, Faith and 17 seconds at their pinnacle. So, it's not that I'm looking at songs such as Friday I'm in love and thinking "Hey, that's not dark at all!"

Even so, I don't see them as goth.

I was never goth myself, couldn't really get myself up to go to the clubs, but from chats with goth friends and listening to things they liked, my conclusion is that goth music is whatever goths like to listen to when they're hanging out together. And back in the 80s that very very much was inclusive of The Cure.

And, hey c'mon, you know what Robert Smith looked like back then, right?

For all I know goth kids these days might not even have time of day for Bauhaus and Souxie because they're too busy enjoying the multitude of Japanese goth idol groups.

 

[Dincrest]

How about these:

Star of Ash "Death Salutes Atropos"


The Eden House "To Believe in Something"
(Aside: the bass in this song is bumpin').

 

[Raman]

I was never goth myself, couldn't really get myself up to go to the clubs, but from chats with goth friends and listening to things they liked, my conclusion is that goth music is whatever goths like to listen to when they're hanging out together. And back in the 80s that very very much was inclusive of The Cure.

And, hey c'mon, you know what Robert Smith looked like back then, right?

For all I know goth kids these days might not even have time of day for Bauhaus and Souxie because they're too busy enjoying the multitude of Japanese goth idol groups.

Well, that's a bit like saying that classic rock, with bands such as Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, was really heavy metal because metal heads tend to like them too... But there is a qualitative difference between Led Zep and, say, Black Sabbath. They are close in style, but the outlook, favorite themes, etc. are different.

Personally, I draw a distinction between goth and post-punk artists, such as Joy Division, The Cure, Siouxsie, etc. The latter laid the ground for goth, but they did not have the death aesthetic that was the originality of goth proper. Post-punk artists like The Cure, Joy Division, etc. were squarely existentialist in their philosophical outlook. They weren't death and darkness worshipers.

And Wikipedia agrees with me.
«Notable post-punk artists who presaged the Gothic rock genre and helped develop and shape the subculture include: Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, the Cure, and Joy Division.»

Goth subculture - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture
EDIT: I meant post-punk artists were "existentialists".

 

[Larryfales]

Fall is official here (in the Northern Hemisphere), people are putting up Halloween decorations and I've now got a lot of Goth in my music rotation. I know a lot of the 80s classic, but I'm curious what other Goth music people are enjoying.

Like the punk thread not too long ago, let's keep it respectful.

I'll start with this classic from The Cure. Love how bass and drum focused this track is, and Simon Gallup's use of phaser (?).

 

[DivisionLocal]

Regarding the "goth or not" debate: I was totally a goth back in the day, and debating what was goth and what was not goth wasn't really a thing. Nobody who actually was goth, would refer to themselves as such. That would have been stultifying, and embarrassing. We resented the label, and wouldn't want to identify AS anything. "Identity" still meant one's personal identity, and hadn't yet been reduced to a collection of traits, immutable or otherwise.

That said, the Cure was totally goth, at least in their heyday. Like all great bands, they transcend genre.

The politically correct term these days is post-punk and/or darkwave. But I think we all know what is meant when we hear the term goth, as applied to music.

I take it to mean dark, moody and angular bass-driven rock/electronica from the late 70s and early 80s, and it's modern derivatives. IMO, that's a pretty broad category and covers everything that's been referenced in this thread thus far.

I would hope people would err on the side of posting music that kind of fits that vibe, rather than worrying about whether or not it is truly goth. I love these threads because I usually find at least one or two new recommendations. The more the better.

 

[Larryfales]

Well, that's a bit like saying that classic rock, with bands such as Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, was really heavy metal because metal heads tend to like them too... But there is a qualitative difference between Led Zep and, say, Black Sabbath. They are close in style, but the outlook, favorite themes, etc. are different.

Personally, I draw a distinction between goth and post-punk artists, such as Joy Division, The Cure, Siouxsie, etc. The latter laid the ground for goth, but they did not have the death aesthetic that was the originality of goth proper. Post-punk artists like The Cure, Joy Division, etc. were squarely existential in their philosophical outlook. They weren't death and darkness worshipers.

And Wikipedia agrees with me.
«Notable post-punk artists who presaged the Gothic rock genre and helped develop and shape the subculture include: Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, the Cure, and Joy Division.»

Goth subculture - Wikipedia

Not technically goth, but a Japanese sub genre of goth. Any way I digress, the bass tone on this track is sick. It's like he stuffed a snarling mountain lion in his amp.

 

[Raman]

Fall is official here (in the Northern Hemisphere), people are putting up Halloween decorations and I've now got a lot of Goth in my music rotation. I know a lot of the 80s classic, but I'm curious what other Goth music people are enjoying.

Like the punk thread not too long ago, let's keep it respectful.

I'll start with this classic from The Cure. Love how bass and drum focused this track is, and Simon Gallup's use of phaser (?).

Good thread btw, what with Halloween coming.
Haven't had a chance to listen (or rediscover) all the tracks people posted yet, but will catch up this week.

A while back I posted a similar thread, but about post-punk.

You might find some tracks you like there too:
Post-punk bassists

 

[Vinny_G]

H.I.M. – Join Me in Death



The 69 Eyes – Wasting the Dawn



Paradise Lost – Beneath Broken Earth



Cradle of Filth – Nymphetamine Fix

 

[DivisionLocal]

Well, that's a bit like saying that classic rock, with bands such as Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin, was really heavy metal because metal heads tend to like them too... But there is a qualitative difference between Led Zep and, say, Black Sabbath. They are close in style, but the outlook, favorite themes, etc. are different.

Personally, I draw a distinction between goth and post-punk artists, such as Joy Division, The Cure, Siouxsie, etc. The latter laid the ground for goth, but they did not have the death aesthetic that was the originality of goth proper. Post-punk artists like The Cure, Joy Division, etc. were squarely existentialist in their philosophical outlook. They weren't death and darkness worshipers.

And Wikipedia agrees with me.
«Notable post-punk artists who presaged the Gothic rock genre and helped develop and shape the subculture include: Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, the Cure, and Joy Division.»

Goth subculture - Wikipedia
EDIT: I meant post-punk artists were "existentialists".

I don't know of any goth bands that had, or have a hardcore death aesthetic. That seems more in-line with black metal or dark electronic/industrial, both of which I love by the way.

Could you post a few examples? This sounds right up my alley.

 

[Raman]

I would hope people would err on the side of posting music that kind of fits that vibe, rather than worrying about whether or not it is truly goth. I love these threads because I usually find at least one or two new recommendations. The more the better.

I don't "worry" about any of it. But I do like to discuss music, its many shades and it's evolution, etc.

 

[Raman]

I don't know of any goth bands that had, or have a hardcore death aesthetic. That seems more in-line with black metal or dark electronic/industrial, both of which I love by the way.

Could you post a few examples? This sounds right up my alley.

Both are linked, I think.

As for examples, I'm finding some right in this thread. Just 3-4 posts above, there is "H.I.M Join me in death". Earlier, I posted "The Witching Hour". And there's more.

Again, I want to stress that there are no objective measurable delimitations between musical or other artistic genres. They are but broad trends. And especially, they all feed on each other and blend in the end.

All I know is I grew up identifying as post-punk. But a few years later, when I started meeting people who identified as goths, I didn't recognize myself in it. They seemed to love imagery of vampires, gargoyles, crosses, cemeteries, etc. There was none of that in the late 70's and early 80's when we listened to The Cure. We all read Albert Camus and lamented the absurdity of life. The goths, at least it seemed to me, didn't care much about existentialist philosophy. They liked bats a whole lot though. But it's probably a caricature that I carry in my mind.

Someone above suggested that goth is just the new name we now give to post-punk. I disagree. We gave them 2 different names for a reason I think.
Yet, I would find it impossible to "prove" in any convincing way that I'm right. It's just a discussion.

But I didn't mean to derail the thread. Sorry if I did.

 

[6-3-2]

Good thread btw, what with Halloween coming.
Haven't had a chance to listen (or rediscover) all the tracks people posted yet, but will catch up this week.

A while back I posted a similar thread, but about post-punk.

You might find some tracks you like there too:
Post-punk bassists

Awesome post-punk thread! It's good to have conversations about more modern and experimental music on here. There's a large TB contingent that are inspired by music that broke the mold.

 

[DivisionLocal]

I don't "worry" about any of it. But I do like to discuss music, it's many shades and it's evolution, etc.

I saw that you already posted a few recommendations earlier in the thread. TBH, they all seem goth to me. I love Skinny Puppy. I couldn't appreciate them as a teenager, because believe it or not, I didn't think they were "goth" enough and couldn't get into them. But many years later, I revisited them, and I was able to connect with their music. Bites helped me through the most difficult period of my life. There is so much empathy on that album. It is really beautiful, and is now among my all-time favorites.

That's the place I was coming from when I made that comment, if you can understand.

 

[Raman]

I saw that you already posted a few recommendations earlier in the thread. TBH, they all seem goth to me. I love Skinny Puppy. I couldn't appreciate them as a teenager, because believe it or not, I didn't think they were "goth" enough and couldn't get into them. But many years later, I revisited them, and I was able to connect with their music. Bites helped me through the most difficult period of my life. There is so much empathy on that album. It is really beautiful, and is now among my all-time favorites.

That's the place I was coming from when I made that comment, if you can understand.

Somehow, goth for me is not a musical category as such, but more of an outlook on life. It's hard to explain. I do think that it crosses into different other more established genres.

Since we're talking The Cure, this, in my own very personal interpretation, is probably their most gothic song ever.

 

[DivisionLocal]

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

In my mind, Goth has a different outlook on it. Whereas you sense that Smith desperately wants to find a path back to life and happiness in his lyrics, with goth it's more of a fascination for death and for the morbid as an aesthetic ideal. With goth, death, fear and darkness are things that you strive for.

That gets very close, though I think there is one step from there to the core. Goth is the grand state of being torn between those two desires, knowing that only one outcome per individual can prevail. It's the state of not being able to resolve it when death is considered as a choice.

Standing on the edge of an abyss, the urge to jump. Yes, or no. The moment the decision is made, the moment is gone.

I decided not to jump, but I still remember the moment. Deciding not to choose death was the only way I could resolve it and still have a decision some other time. Death will come for me when it must, but in the meantime I have other things to do..

Goth is also the cumulative aesthetic of those periods that most explored this as a major part of their own times and culture.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

I would hope people would err on the side of posting music that kind of fits that vibe, rather than worrying about whether or not it is truly goth. I love these threads because I usually find at least one or two new recommendations. The more the better.

Maybe not yet mentioned here: Bile, an industrial band from Manhattan. Krztoff's longer exploratory tracks, like Hunger/Feeding/Afterglow.. All good stuff, but when he gets to deep explorations it's amazing. Nothing I could say will prepare you...

 

[Dincrest]

How could I forget to mention Diamanda Galas. Her Vena Cava album is still the most emotionally intense music I've ever heard. The rawness of it and her vocal gymnastics on that album were next level.

 

[Pyrat]

What? No Fields of the Nephilim?

 

[6-3-2]

How could I forget to mention Diamanda Galas. Her Vena Cava album is still the most emotionally intense music I've ever heard. The rawness of it and her vocal gymnastics on that album were next level.

A real legend and still at it