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Grindcore

#521
Just to clarify my previous post... i am NOT at all saying that other music isnt "real". I love many different genres of music across the board.
But with some of the artists that dont write their own music it is VERY fair to say that it is all being designed to achieve maximum profit.
 
#522
trowaclown said:
Given bluewine's penchant for fallacies and overgeneralisations and how older is better, I'm not sure if LaklandBass' question is addressed to the correct person. But BigOldHarry thanks for chiming in it really is interesting. So have pop sheep evolved over the years, from what you can see?
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Well, the "pop sheep" of the '60s were a bit different in that the whole "Rock and roll" thing on the radio was VERY new - mix into that the whole british invasion thing, plus the beginnings of the "'60's" and you can see why this was a critical mass, society-wise.

Back then, we didn't have the media exposure we do now - sure, pop acts were pre-fabed to some degree, but NOTHING like now. Heck, Britney, Taylor Swift, Miley Cirus, any number boy-bands and hip-hop acts - all so prefab it *hurts* - and kids eat it up like mana...

Now, "Metal" has never had the same traction as pop music - I think we can all agree. Heck, metal doesn't WANT that traction - that's part of the whole "Metal Ethos", right? Aggression, rebellion (all the stuff that reminds me of Punk...). So trying to compare McCartney to Metal is just awkward. A better debate would be debating Beatles vs. Jacksons - at least I can grasp that argument, but "metal"? How about we compare/contrast Metal to CW!?! That seems more apropos to me...
 
#523
LaklandBass said:
Just to clarify my previous post... i am NOT at all saying that other music isnt "real". I love many different genres of music across the board.
But with some of the artists that dont write their own music it is VERY fair to say that it is all being designed to achieve maximum profit.
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Funny you should mention that - How many great song writers came out of the CW and pop music farms - Willie Nelson, John Hiatt - many others. Those folks had to know their music, their theory and how to string words together to work - not a simple set of skills...

I guess you *can* safely say that in the "metal world", few (if any) of those cats came out of the industrialized music world...
 
#524
BigOldHarry said:
Funny you should mention that - How many great song writers came out of the CW and pop music farms - Willie Nelson, John Hiatt - many others. Those folks had to know their music, their theory and how to string words together to work - not a simple set of skills...

I guess you *can* safely say that in the "metal world", few (if any) of those cats came out of the industrialized music world...
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Very true sir.
Although I dont listen to much CW at all i have always had major respect for them.

Since I assume you listen to the genre.... I was exposed to some Big & Rich and I must say that I rather enjoy that harder country sound. Any suggestions of who to check out for that style?
 
#525
LaklandBass said:
and NO I do not think that album sales has anything to do with a band being good... bluewine however has basically said in multiple threads that commercial success is a major defining factor of if a band is any good so I figured why not see what y'all think about the "pop sheep factor"
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man, I just can't stop with this....

"Commercial Success" sounds awful, but think about it like folks were making a product, not "music". Beer, for example. The biggest selling beer in the US is uniformly believed to be the most mediocre example of "beer" in the entire world - yet it sells more than any other. One need look no further than prime-time TV to see how mediocrity is the choice of most consumers.

So I get the urge to reject all things "popular" - My first instinct is usually to shun things of too many folks like them - and for that I have missed out on some good stuff (The masses *are* on occasion right!). So I get the rejection of pop music thing, I completely get that. But as an adult, I have had time to consider those things that I appreciate and respect - So to me, "alternative" music is jazz and funk, not metal. Why? Well, I like the things that these genres embody and I do not like the things that "metal" embodies. I used to - when I was a young guy in the service, I listed to LOTS of what you'd call metal back then (we called it "killing civilians music". Real cheery, eh?). But now - I guess I just reject all the darkness and noise around metal - - the implicit violence and rage - - where with Jazz, I *love* that guys wear a tie to play it, where women try to look nice - - it seem... Respectful of the audience. Funk? I *love* the whole outlandish Bootsy/George Clinton zanyness - it's playful and fun...

Oh - and like the music better to. Quite subjective, I know, but hey - music preference *is* subjective, yes?
 
#526
LaklandBass said:
Very true sir.
Although I dont listen to much CW at all i have always had major respect for them.

Since I assume you listen to the genre.... I was exposed to some Big & Rich and I must say that I rather enjoy that harder country sound. Any suggestions of who to check out for that style?
Click to expand...

I actually am *not* a CW guy. Yes, I was a hired gun in a touring CW band many years ago, but it's not my thing (it was, however, a paycheck!). To make things worse, I'm pretty much a lefty liberal these days, and that doesn't line up with the whole CW ethos, So I really can't advise about CW. sorry!
 
#527
BigOldHarry said:
man, I just can't stop with this....

"Commercial Success" sounds awful, but think about it like folks were making a product, not "music". Beer, for example. The biggest selling beer in the US is uniformly believed to be the most mediocre example of "beer" in the entire world - yet it sells more than any other. One need look no further than prime-time TV to see how mediocrity is the choice of most consumers.

So I get the urge to reject all things "popular" - My first instinct is usually to shun things of too many folks like them - and for that I have missed out on some good stuff (The masses *are* on occasion right!). So I get the rejection of pop music thing, I completely get that. But as an adult, I have had time to consider those things that I appreciate and respect - So to me, "alternative" music is jazz and funk, not metal. Why? Well, I like the things that these genres embody and I do not like the things that "metal" embodies. I used to - when I was a young guy in the service, I listed to LOTS of what you'd call metal back then (we called it "killing civilians music". Real cheery, eh?). But now - I guess I just reject all the darkness and noise around metal - - the implicit violence and rage - - where with Jazz, I *love* that guys wear a tie to play it, where women try to look nice - - it seem... Respectful of the audience. Funk? I *love* the whole outlandish Bootsy/George Clinton zanyness - it's playful and fun...

Oh - and like the music better to. Quite subjective, I know, but hey - music preference *is* subjective, yes?
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Your beer example is freaking awesome. to me that totally sums it up. I do listen to some pop stuff as well. I dont want to miss out on any good music and I know that some pop music is simply great.
 
#530
AltGrendel said:
Not a problem. Here's the final shot.

BTW, don't take any offence by this. I just like the Beatles and love an opportunity to post their work. ;):D
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No offense taken at all. Brings out my inner music geek.

First off, great find. Revolution is from the White Album, but the version on the video is not the same version. Splitting hairs I know, but the tempo, feel, and sound of Revolution on the video is different from the White Album.

Close, but no cigar. ;)
 
#531
LaklandBass said:


Speaking of suits and ties check this out. Pretty awesome if you ask me LOL.
I know this isnt everyones cup of tea but its some entertaining stuff to say the least.
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lol "entertaining" is indeed the first word to come to mind. honestly, as much as I love grind, I LOL'ed hearing the first vox burst. Suicide Silence......yea, I knew there was a reason I skipped them in my "to do" list.
 
#537
For me, this was a great thread. Some of you made some really well thought out points and were able to justify your point and position. NICE!

Overall the thread gave me a really good snap shot of the demography of the forum. Age, general knowledge base, intellect ect.. It will help me draft better and more appropriate threads.
 
#538
jive1 said:
...
I think one of the things that make popular artists like the Beatles popular is the scales and time they use...
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Posts like this are the reason THREADS like these should keep coming -- and again, if it't not your bag, don't read it.

Saying "x is death metal not grind, because there's no grind in it" (not to pick on the poster, but it's a perfect example) doesn't tell me anything. I listen to the links listed as "grind," listened to an hour of music in youtube listed as grind (even confirmed that those bands ARE in fact considered grindcore), and still, saying they have more "grind" than death metal communicates nothing to me. But I love seeing the debates when people are able to make solid arguments (like jive's).

I'd be very interested in hearing more from the grinders (fans of grindcore, not the sandwich) on how they distinguish grindcore from death metal...dunno, is cradle of filth grindcore or death metal? Sounds a lot like the grindcore stuff I've listened to, but seems sqaurely in the death metal world IMHO...lyrically very similar to the cannibal corpse stuff, but clearly metal...
 
#539
As far as I can tell, it comes down to (A) which genre you identify with, and (B) whether you like the band in question. If B=yes, then they are in genre A. If B=no, then (obviously) the are in some other, lesser genre, even if nobody not deeply indoctrinated in the whole scene could tell the two genres apart.

Indeed, I suspect some genre distinctions exist solely so that fans of Genre X can exclude sucky band Y from their preferred genre.
 
#540
lethargytartare said:
Posts like this are the reason THREADS like these should keep coming -- and again, if it't not your bag, don't read it.

Saying "x is death metal not grind, because there's no grind in it" (not to pick on the poster, but it's a perfect example) doesn't tell me anything. I listen to the links listed as "grind," listened to an hour of music in youtube listed as grind (even confirmed that those bands ARE in fact considered grindcore), and still, saying they have more "grind" than death metal communicates nothing to me. But I love seeing the debates when people are able to make solid arguments (like jive's).

I'd be very interested in hearing more from the grinders (fans of grindcore, not the sandwich) on how they distinguish grindcore from death metal...dunno, is cradle of filth grindcore or death metal? Sounds a lot like the grindcore stuff I've listened to, but seems sqaurely in the death metal world IMHO...lyrically very similar to the cannibal corpse stuff, but clearly metal...
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Grind is usually super fast and has no breakdowns. The guitars sound literally grindy. Deathmetal can vary from really fast to breakdowns to anything inbetween. Deathcore has less technical riffs and is mostly breakdowns, with few or no blast beats.
 

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