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Grindcore

#562
lethargytartare said:
On the contrary -- they are absolutely made up (note: I do agree that it's not ALL cases -- but many). The only question is (a) WHO is making them up, and (b) are they meaningful (or "WHY")

And I really have been unfair to the fans on this -- rereading some stuff about "grindcore" I neglected the fact that BANDS are often to blame, trying to give themselves some unique identifier...and "journalists" who need to prove themselves experts in something.
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This is very true, and leads to the "screamo" genre, for the most part.yes, there are screamo bands, but for three most part, a band that gets called screamo bu the merits its actually post hardcore. The media its stupid and prefers to use wrong terms that sound right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screaming_(music)#Misconceptions

Explains what I'm saying better than I can
 
#563
I wish I could join in on the discussion, it's just that I have never heard grindcore.I don't know anything about it.

My friend, a lot younger than me really wanted me to listen to this cd about 10 years ago. It was Metalica.

He's my really good friend, I didn't have the heart to tell him that not only did I hate it, I didn't understand what they were doing, didn't conect at all with the apeal.

I am a happy guy, not dark and weird.
 
#564
lethargytartare said:
Saying "x is death metal not grind, because there's no grind in it" (not to pick on the poster, but it's a perfect example) doesn't tell me anything. I listen to the links listed as "grind," listened to an hour of music in youtube listed as grind (even confirmed that those bands ARE in fact considered grindcore), and still, saying they have more "grind" than death metal communicates nothing to me. But I love seeing the debates when people are able to make solid arguments (like jive's).

I'd be very interested in hearing more from the grinders (fans of grindcore, not the sandwich) on how they distinguish grindcore from death metal...dunno, is cradle of filth grindcore or death metal? Sounds a lot like the grindcore stuff I've listened to, but seems sqaurely in the death metal world IMHO...lyrically very similar to the cannibal corpse stuff, but clearly metal...
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Ok, I'll sum it up for you very briefly. The biggest problem you're going to have with distinguishing genres like death metal, grindcore and black metal from eachother is that there is quite a bit of overlap. As I'm sure you're well aware, music isn't as black and white as fitting everything squarely into a box, but there are some important differences, not just with the sounds, but with the musical roots. To hear the differences as black and white as possible, its probably best to listen to some of the genre defining bands.

The grindcore scene really is a crossover between hardcore punk and death metal. It tends to be a more in-your-face aggressive style of music, due, mostly to its hardcore punk roots. It doesn't usually focus on technicality, another thing taken from its punk roots. The songs tend to have straightforward structures, and to be quite short, with intense bursts of energy. Guitars tend to be downtuned more often in grindcore, but it isn't terribly unusual in death metal either.
This is a prime example of grindcore. -


There are other subtle differences, including in vocal delivery, but to briefly pinch Jive's similie, its much like the fine wine enthusiast versus the guy who doesn't like wine at all. The differences, while incredibly obvious to those who totally immerse themselves in it mightn't even be noticeable at all to the guy who doesn't like it. To the enthusiast, they're plainly obvious.

If you'd like a better explanation, with more examples, would probably be best to do that via PM.
 
#565
bluewine said:
I wish I could join in on the discussion, it's just that I have never heard grindcore.I don't know anything about it.

My friend, a lot younger than me really wanted me to listen to this cd about 10 years ago. It was Metalica.

He's my really good friend, I didn't have the heart to tell him that not only did I hate it, I didn't understand what they were doing, didn't conect at all with the apeal.

I am a happy guy, not dark and weird.
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Now insulting and generalizing metalheads as "Dark and Wierd". Good. Stirring the pot. I am a happy guy too, as are many metal musicians. I think if someone told me this in person, I would be inclined to yell at them until they understood, but you never will. You are what, like 110 years old and extremely wise? So, since I am 20 you are better then me anyway, I should concede to your infinite knowledge of everything that exists.

bluewine said:
I won’t post the whole ad, but this is the stuff that makes me feel old. This is just an excerpt from an ad posted today.

We love playing grindcore, and we love playing it fast.He comes the old man in me,

Grindcore, give me a break.

I am so blessed to have been born in the 50s and came on to the scene with all the wonderful artist in the 60s and 70s one of the most prolific time periods for rock and pop music.

Am I ripping on the caliber of the genres of some of today’s younger musicians?

YES!
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And, as far as your first sentence of that first quote goes, if that is indeed the truth, then why post this? Forming opinions on subjects one knows nothing about has caused things like slavery and witch hunts and warfare about many a subject. If you are the wise, mature one, you should be able to tell people you dislike something in a far better manner. I will use myself as an example. Not to make anyone rage, but I HATE country music. With a passion. Now, someone asks me what I think, I simply say "It's really just not my thing." This approach tells them I am mature enough to (1) Not hurt their feelings and (2) Not start a big fight/argument/brawl. Perhaps you should take some hints from some of these young kids with no musical talent. ;)
 
#567
dj150888 said:
Ok, I'll sum it up for you very briefly. The biggest problem you're going to have with distinguishing genres like death metal, grindcore and black metal from eachother is that there is quite a bit of overlap. As I'm sure you're well aware, music isn't as black and white as fitting everything squarely into a box, but there are some important differences, not just with the sounds, but with the musical roots. To hear the differences as black and white as possible, its probably best to listen to some of the genre defining bands.

The grindcore scene really is a crossover between hardcore punk and death metal. It tends to be a more in-your-face aggressive style of music, due, mostly to its hardcore punk roots. It doesn't usually focus on technicality, another thing taken from its punk roots. The songs tend to have straightforward structures, and to be quite short, with intense bursts of energy. Guitars tend to be downtuned more often in grindcore, but it isn't terribly unusual in death metal either.
This is a prime example of grindcore. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esgh_tyH3Uc

Now death metal tends to be a bit less aggressive, in its purest form, death metal tends to focus more on atmosphere than on speed, meaning it doesn't have that really punk-esque aggressive vibe to it. It will quite often have more complex structures. Its not unusual for a death metal song to be quite slow in places, or even the entire way through. For example, there is no way the following song could ever be mistaken as a grindcore song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r70ZMcGkf0A&feature=related

There are other subtle differences, including in vocal delivery, but to briefly pinch Jive's similie, its much like the fine wine enthusiast versus the guy who doesn't like wine at all. The differences, while incredibly obvious to those who totally immerse themselves in it mightn't even be noticeable at all to the guy who doesn't like it. To the enthusiast, they're plainly obvious.

If you'd like a better explanation, with more examples, would probably be best to do that via PM.
Click to expand...

This mann speaks volumes, in words that I could think of but leave my head before I can type them. Listen to this post.
 
#570
bluewine said:
For me, this was a great thread. Some of you made some really well thought out points and were able to justify your point and position. NICE!

Overall the thread gave me a really good snap shot of the demography of the forum. Age, general knowledge base, intellect ect.. It will help me draft better and more appropriate threads.
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I do believe that the above statement is

A threat!
 
#573
So theres pretty much 2 people in this thread:

-People that are angry at the fact they have never heard of grind, even though its been around since the early to mid 80s and therefore believe it to be garbage since they've never joined a cover band rushing to cover all of side A of the "SCUM" LP

-People angry at people who have no idea what grind is and believe there should be cover bands rushing to cover side B of the "SCUM" LP

;)
 
#574
Think sometimes listeners confuse "happy chords" and "happy scales" with happiness. Pop music uses lots of major chords, Metal uses more minor chords and scales, which sound sadder. That's probably why Nigel Tufnel called D minor the saddest of all keys. And you add in wierd intervals like flatted fifths, and you hear dissonance, which some call wierd. Oddly, Jazz uses lots of the dissonant intervals, and people may think it's wierd too.

Sometimes, the happy or sad sounds you hear don't have to do with the mental state of the performer. Adam Duritz from Counting Crows fought mental illness, but had lots of happy sounding chords in his songs. Dickey Betts of the Allman Brothers had lots of major sounding "happy songs" compared to the marose songs of Gregg Allman, but he had problems with alcoholism and domestic abuse. On the other hand, Marilyn Manson has lots of minor sounding stuff, but he's laughing all the way to the bank.
 
#575
lethargytartare said:
But your underlying assumption is that there are NO such sheep in the legions of metal et al. fans. And that's just not true. I grew up knowing plenty of kids who wore Metallica shirts but who had no particular affinity for metal in general, and when the other burnouts moved on to something else, so did they (and I'm talking pre-black album, so WAY before their epic fall into mass popularity). Lots of kids listen to music because it pisses someone off -- and when that mood passes, or the band starts getting popular support, they stop listening. So were they "genuine" fans, or were they just a different kind of sheep?
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No. Thats not my assumption at all.
And speaking of assumptions...............
 
#576
Burlington said:
Bluewind, do you have a gig?
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No, not really.I have really gone backwards.

I made several bad decisions by getting involved with start ups.

For whatever reason,I didn't cut it with some of the working bands I auditioned for.No vocals , just not the right fit, stuff like that.

So, now I am working with a start up band, all 20 something kids, 2 females and a guy. All I can say is one of the women has some potential.I have rehearsed with them about 6 times.

I get to play 2 times a week and I really like my playing right now, using a pick instead of my fingers, working at usng the scales to build my lines, staying in the right positions and doing some cool stuff with opens and closed strings.

It's humbling, but in a way it's teaching me a lesson, reafirming that nothing comes easy and that I have a lot of work a head of me to come up with a strategy to get back with a happening working band.

I don't know if these kids will ever see their first decent show.


You guys can say it's because of my attitude if you llike,it's your opinion.It doesn't bother me.
 
#577
Subsist said:
So theres pretty much 2 people in this thread:

-People that are angry at the fact they have never heard of grind, even though its been around since the early to mid 80s and therefore believe it to be garbage since they've never joined a cover band rushing to cover all of side A of the "SCUM" LP

-People angry at people who have no idea what grind is and believe there should be cover bands rushing to cover side B of the "SCUM" LP

;)
Click to expand...

I think some of us are just angry, who knows maybe I am.

I should be setting up my rig at some club this time of night on a Friday. Instead I'm sitting at home.

Oh yeah, my GF split on me last week after almost a year.
 
#579
And, as far as your first sentence of that first quote goes, if that is indeed the truth, then why post this? Forming opinions on subjects one knows nothing about has caused things like slavery and witch hunts and warfare about many a subject. If you are the wise, mature one, you should be able to tell people you dislike something in a far better manner. I will use myself as an example. Not to make anyone rage, but I HATE country music. With a passion. Now, someone asks me what I think, I simply say "It's really just not my thing." This approach tells them I am mature enough to (1) Not hurt their feelings and (2) Not start a big fight/argument/brawl. Perhaps you should take some hints from some of these young kids with no musical talent. ;)[/QUOTE]

Dude, I am around young people everytime I pick up my bass. I mean, I'm 57 in these basements with kids, just like when I was17.Only now it takes me forever to set up and I don't see so good anymore and I refuse to wear my glasses, they make me look old.

I listen and take there advice, I don't have a choice.

Funny these kids ,God Bless Them, they always take me in.It's the guys in their 40s and 50swith the working bands that have rejected me.


As far as my post goes, I guess I could have chosen my words a little better. I thought it would get maybe 10 responses, not 600.
 

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