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Grindcore

#601
bassk81976 said:
note: i do not feel that i am rascist in any way, just that these are simply facts. i am not praising or condemning any type of lifestyle for what color the person is, or assuming that because they are that color that they have to live a specific life style and should be treated that way. However, i do know that people may jump to that conclusion, and so i state that now - i mean no offence, and if i do, i'm very sorry.

now...

hip hop and black culture is very deeply ingrained in music to the point of it not being a big deal. i know countless black people who record albums, and it's just whatever. they don't aim to get signed, make it big, consider themselves "making it", it's just life.

i've known lots of white people to precede their musicality with "what genre i play". i actually preface state myself as "i kinda play everything", but only because i do - if i stayed in metal only, i'd say that. that's because in "white" culture, there are many different paths that don't involve music at all, and music is a sort of a rebellion against that standard path in a way.

in "black" culture, music is generally much more important, whether as a money source or just as something that is there, since the 20's jazz scene. it is often sterotypically said that black people who may deviate from that standard path to "be white", or "not black". (again, just stating from what i've abserved growing up in a poor area and raised around these sterotypes from the black perspective) There is a pressure within the "black" culture to be "black", and follow the culture. And this includes music. So, music is rarely seen as a special point to state. i've never heard "yea i'm a rapper, i just recorded a cd, wanna buy it?", i generally have to bug my black friends to let me hear their stuff.

but what does all of this have to do with grindcore?

who knows.....

hope i didnt' offend anyone with this post. if i did i'm truely sorry and will delete it.
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posts being picked apart or not I do get what youre trying to say.
 
#605
bassk81976 said:
note: i do not feel ...
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I accidentally deleted a line where I said outright that I wasn't going to call you the "R" word -- and I wouldn't assume that from a forum post in a thread like this.

A person can make statements that reflect racial stereotypes and biases and not, himself, BE a racist -- and I do think those comments fell along those lines. But more important, I don't think they prove the point that there are more metal musicians (young metal musicans?) than rap...

So to reconnect the thread: OP questioning the caliber of young musicians, "grindcore" gets named; discussion forks between (a) comparing qualities of 50s/60s musicians to metal musicians and (b) the meaningfulness of the terms being used; and somewhere in there the influence of metal and the caliber of its fans came into play, which led to these tangents "are there more 'musically inclined' types following metal than other music styles" which ties back to the caliber of the musicians "in" the genre.

Back to your argument -- there are plenty of non-black rappers (and non-caucasian metal artists, obviously -- just ran across an interview with max cavalera on good ol' headbangers ball...), and with sone of the biggest rap acts of the day being the Beastie Boys and Eminem, it's unpersuasive to use racial population statistics as a way to suggest it's statistically probable that there are more metal musicians than rappers.

So looking for level of influence of the genres by numbers of musicians participating IN that genre...maybe not so fruitful. But I think what you guys really are after is that there are more musicians committed to their craft pursuing metal than other genres (the "cerebral" types, I think you're saying)...and I REALLY think that's tough to maintain or prove. I think prog (assuming we aren't counting the classic styles like jazz...where getting started at all probably implies a lot of cerebral-ness) still probably commands that market.
 
#606
lethargytartare said:
I accidentally deleted a line where I said outright that I wasn't going to call you the "R" word -- and I wouldn't assume that from a forum post in a thread like this.

A person can make statements that reflect racial stereotypes and biases and not, himself, BE a racist -- and I do think those comments fell along those lines. But more important, I don't think they prove the point that there are more metal musicians (young metal musicans?) than rap...

So to reconnect the thread: OP questioning the caliber of young musicians, "grindcore" gets named; discussion forks between (a) comparing qualities of 50s/60s musicians to metal musicians and (b) the meaningfulness of the terms being used; and somewhere in there the influence of metal and the caliber of its fans came into play, which led to these tangents "are there more 'musically inclined' types following metal than other music styles" which ties back to the caliber of the musicians "in" the genre.

Back to your argument -- there are plenty of non-black rappers (and non-caucasian metal artists, obviously -- just ran across an interview with max cavalera on good ol' headbangers ball...), and with sone of the biggest rap acts of the day being the Beastie Boys and Eminem, it's unpersuasive to use racial population statistics as a way to suggest it's statistically probable that there are more metal musicians than rappers.

So looking for level of influence of the genres by numbers of musicians participating IN that genre...maybe not so fruitful. But I think what you guys really are after is that there are more musicians committed to their craft pursuing metal than other genres (the "cerebral" types, I think you're saying)...and I REALLY think that's tough to maintain or prove. I think prog (assuming we aren't counting the classic styles like jazz...where getting started at all probably implies a lot of cerebral-ness) still probably commands that market.
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you're right - and actually, as i think more about it, my post was really in reply to that post and in now way towards the thread, and in a way going in a tangent away from the thread. i'm sorry about that. for all of my thinking, sometimes the right stuff isn't thought of first, haha...
EDIT:

but as i read through your post, you are saying what i was saying, basically. that it's kinda pointless to say that more people do metal than rap, or any such things -because you cant' really tell. because rap is so ingrained in hip-hop culture (Which is how i should have put it to be non-racial from the first place), you cant' say "more people do rap than metal so metal must suck" or vise-a-versa, because many people in the hip-hop culture do not make light of their musical ability, it is just a normal thing.

there's a LOT of musical skill in the world, in all walks of life and in all cultures and scenes and locations and genres. I find it foolish to automatically dismiss any culture, scene, location, genre, etc, or "rip on the caliber", because skills are what they are. sure, the grindcore bassist might not be interested or even able to follow a Beatles tune, that doesn't mean that he isn't as skilled. it's a different skill. the Beatles fanatic probably isn't able to follow the grindcore riff, either. it's a different skill. to argue that one skill is better or more useful than the other is just...pointless.
 
#608
I would appreciate it if those of you who say "So and so isn't Grindcore" would post a link to a vid that you consider to be Grindcore.

Thanks.

Edit: Yes, I realize that others have posted links, but I think it'd help anyway. At least say "So and so's link is a good one."
 
#613
I wasn't really arguing anything. I was merely stating that in my experience, among the instrumentally inclined (thanks for the correction jive) high schoolers, there tend to be more people that play metal or core genres. In addition, again IME, among the kids that I know that rap, their rapping is usually a much smaller part of their self-image than metal is to the metal kids. I wasn't trying to offend anybody, just trying to contribute to the discussion by stating my personal experience.

To lethargytarte, I don't think that my post has any speculation at all. It is either demographic facts, or personal experience. I don't think that anyone argues that there are more white kids in this country than black kids. Simple demographics. Second, part of America's legacy of racism is that on average, black families are poorer than white families. This is terrible, but true. My third point is purely personal experience.

IME, a high schooler that plays metal guitar, when asked about it, is more likely to say something like "I'm a metal guitarist," rather than "I play guitar." Likewise, an African-American kid who raps, is more likely to say "I rap," rather than "I'm a rapper." Interestingly enough, this hasn't held true with white kids I know who rap. They also tend to identify themselves as rappers rather than people who can rap. I think bassk is on to something when he says that music is so ingrained in African-American culture that it isn't so much of a big deal.

And now that I think about it, this has nothing to do with the thread, so I should shut up now.
 
#614
Zoa said:
I wasn't really arguing anything. I was merely stating that in my experience, among the instrumentally inclined (thanks for the correction jive) high schoolers, there tend to be more people that play metal or core genres. In addition, again IME, among the kids that I know that rap, their rapping is usually a much smaller part of their self-image than metal is to the metal kids. I wasn't trying to offend anybody, just trying to contibute to the discussion by stating my personal experience.
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I can agree with what youre saying for the time that I was in high school (95-99).
Our senior year the "music talent" show got cancelled when the faculty realized that 7 out of 8 entries were heavy metal.
Now im not sure if it was just my era or just my area but I definitely do recall the younger guys mostly playing metal.
 
#615
LaklandBass said:
I can agree with what youre saying for the time that I was in high school (95-99).
Our senior year the "music talent" show got cancelled when the faculty realized that 7 out of 8 entries were heavy metal.
Now im not sure if it was just my era or just my area but I definitely do recall the younger guys mostly playing metal.
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I know you guys will ignore this, it seems that if you can't find a way to be personally critcle you ignore the post.

Nothing has really changed, whan I was in High School (68-71) any music event that involved bands playing Hendrix, Cream anything that at the time was underground was usually stopped by the administration,
 
#616
bluewine said:
I know you guys will ignore this, it seems that if you can't find a way to be personally critcle you ignore the post.
Nothing has really changed, whan I was in High School (68-71) any music event that involved bands playing Hendrix, Cream anything that at the time was underground was usually stopped by the administration,
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Not sure I understand what you're saying.

And to add to my post... I do understand why our school cancelled the event. They were aware of the "crowd response" that took place at local metal shows and when they weighed their options decided that it wasnt worth the risk and/or increased security costs to put on the show.
This show was to be held at 5pm after school on a friday and all were invited... not just students at our school.
 
#617
LaklandBass said:
Not sure I understand what you're saying.

And to add to my post... I do understand why our school cancelled the event. They were aware of the "crowd response" that took place at local metal shows and when they weighed their options decided that it wasnt worth the risk and/or increased security costs to put on the show.
This show was to be held at 5pm after school on a friday and all were invited... not just students at our school.
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Same thing, the administration new that events with the bands I mentioned was also a security risk, drugs ect.....
 

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