Grindcore

[lethargytartare]

I disagree. Metal is pretty much the biggest genre among young people right now. The radio and television aren't really a trustworthy source of what's popular among the 14-25 crowd. ...

I disagree, to a point. Metal is definitely the biggest genre among the musically inclined (or those that consider themselves musically inclined) among that age group, but overall, not even close....

I think you're both wrong and underestimate hip hop, R&B, and country. I'm not primarily a fan of any of those, but seriously, there are masses of kids who soundtrack their lives by those genres...

And if you reject album sales and radio plays as a basis for judging what kids like, then what DO you judge it by? I don't think you can use those to judge QUALITY (which was the OP's actual target -- the caliber of the "younger" musicians), but audience...well, that's about all you CAN use...

And what are we calling Radiohead? I thought that was they were in the family of music that attracted the very musically inclined...again, not my preference, but I wouldn't deny their following...

 

[lethargytartare]

As far as I can tell, it comes down to (A) which genre you identify with, and (B) whether you like the band in question. If B=yes, then they are in genre A. If B=no, then (obviously) the are in some other, lesser genre, even if nobody not deeply indoctrinated in the whole scene could tell the two genres apart.

Indeed, I suspect some genre distinctions exist solely so that fans of Genre X can exclude sucky band Y from their preferred genre.

Bingo! (or to exclude sucky PERSON Y from their circle of friends...)

 

[Burlington]

Bingo! (or to exclude sucky PERSON Y from their circle of friends...)

I wouldn't say this applies in all cases.

It's not like these genre names are made up, their are differences between them.

I like a few deathcore bands, but don't like some. If anyone places a band in a genre depending if they like them or not just says to me that they don't have a real understanding of the genre differences.

 

[lethargytartare]

... how many were just pop sheep?
Its a legit question... i seriously wonder this.. I know with all super huge artists there is a great percentage of the "fans" that are sheep and will abandon the artist as soon as something else comes along.

But your underlying assumption is that there are NO such sheep in the legions of metal et al. fans. And that's just not true. I grew up knowing plenty of kids who wore Metallica shirts but who had no particular affinity for metal in general, and when the other burnouts moved on to something else, so did they (and I'm talking pre-black album, so WAY before their epic fall into mass popularity). Lots of kids listen to music because it pisses someone off -- and when that mood passes, or the band starts getting popular support, they stop listening. So were they "genuine" fans, or were they just a different kind of sheep?

 

[jive1]

As far as I can tell, it comes down to (A) which genre you identify with, and (B) whether you like the band in question. If B=yes, then they are in genre A. If B=no, then (obviously) the are in some other, lesser genre, even if nobody not deeply indoctrinated in the whole scene could tell the two genres apart.

Indeed, I suspect some genre distinctions exist solely so that fans of Genre X can exclude sucky band Y from their preferred genre.

If you're not familiar with something, it's harder to see the differences. It can be the same for Jazz. Someone who isn't familiar with Jazz will confuse it with the Blues, even though there is a difference in the groove. And within Jazz, someone who isn't familiar with it will see Fusion, Cool, Bop, and Swing as the same thing, while a Jazzer will see distinct differences and wonder how someone can't hear the differences.

Same for food and wine, if you are a casual consumer you don't know the differences as much. But a wine conisseur will know the differences between a Merlot and Chianti, but a non wine drinker like me can't appreciate the difference between Boones Farm and a high dollar wine. Both will taste like a red or white wine to me, and not much more. But, I won't deny that is a difference and that a more sophisticated palette can tell the difference.

Being able to tell the fine differences requires requires exposure and an appreciation. If you don't have it, everything will seem the same.

 

[Burlington]

But your underlying assumption is that there are NO such sheep in the legions of metal et al. fans. And that's just not true. I grew up knowing plenty of kids who wore Metallica shirts but who had no particular affinity for metal in general, and when the other burnouts moved on to something else, so did they (and I'm talking pre-black album, so WAY before their epic fall into mass popularity). Lots of kids listen to music because it pisses someone off -- and when that mood passes, or the band starts getting popular support, they stop listening. So were they "genuine" fans, or were they just a different kind of sheep?

Metal is full of sheep, pop metal bands like Attack! Attack! are leading the metal sheep army haha.

 

[Ljilja ZLJB]

I won’t post the whole ad, but this is the stuff that makes me feel old. This is just an excerpt from an ad posted today.

We love playing grindcore, and we love playing it fast.He comes the old man in me,

Grindcore, give me a break.

I am so blessed to have been born in the 50s and came on to the scene with all the wonderful artist in the 60s and 70s one of the most prolific time periods for rock and pop music.

Am I ripping on the caliber of the genres of some of today’s younger musicians?

YES!

oh.... what about grindcore.... ? i like hardcore... but i like jazz to....
I do not understand why so write .. this music is like any other ...

 

[MakiSupaStar]

If this is the argument thread then I'd just like to say that I disagree.

 

[UncleFluffy]

If you're not familiar with something, it's harder to see the differences. It can be the same for Jazz.

Ah, but Jazz is true art whereas Grindcore is mere mindless grunting.

Apparently.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Oh and I'd like to add that who the hell cares what it's called or 'classified' as? Good music gets listened to. Always.

 

[jive1]

I disagree, to a point. Metal is definitely the biggest genre among the musically inclined (or those that consider themselves musically inclined) among that age group, but overall, not even close. Those that identify strongly with music, and consider it a big part of their image/lifestyle/identity/chick-getting strategy/attitude tend to be metal fans (or emo) but overall, pop, rap, R&B, even classic rock I'd say have a larger fanbase among the casual listeners of that (my) age group.

I'll have to disagree with this one. If you went to a white, suburban high school and are instrumentally inclined, I can see what you're saying as being the case. But, are the kids who go to an inner-city school in a Black neighborhood who are musically inclined playing Metal? If you're musically inclined vocally, as opposed to instrumentally, are you going to gravitate to Metal?

What I will say though is that the Metal kids, at least in my experience were more into the cerebral part of music. We were into the technicality and complexity of it. We wanted to be good, and this music was challenging to us and required us to know more theory than a 3 chord pop tune. Although we could appreciate listening to "Love Me Do", we couldn't be bothered learning it because we viewed it as being too easy. Not that it was a bad tune, but we were full of ourselves at the time, and couldn't be bothered dealing with "easy" songs.

From a musical standpoint it was great to really push ourselves, but we also didn't learn the lessons about the biz. But heck, we were in High School, so who cared back then. We were some punk kids having fun. But, later in life as music became more of a business, I find that at 39 I'm playing those 3 chord pop tunes that I couldn't be bothered with when I was 17, and actually enjoying some of them.

 

[Ljilja ZLJB]

Oh and I'd like to add that who the hell cares what it's called or 'classified' as? Good music gets listened to. Always.

"Good music gets listened to. Always"

 

[jive1]

If this is the argument thread then I'd just like to say that I disagree.

Who the heck let this guy out of OT?

 

[lethargytartare]

I wouldn't say this applies in all cases.

It's not like these genre names are made up, their are differences between them.

I like a few deathcore bands, but don't like some. If anyone places a band in a genre depending if they like them or not just says to me that they don't have a real understanding of the genre differences.

On the contrary -- they are absolutely made up (note: I do agree that it's not ALL cases -- but many). The only question is (a) WHO is making them up, and (b) are they meaningful (or "WHY")

And I really have been unfair to the fans on this -- rereading some stuff about "grindcore" I neglected the fact that BANDS are often to blame, trying to give themselves some unique identifier...and "journalists" who need to prove themselves experts in something.

I find it very annoying, and promise not to jump into a whatsit-core debate and scream "ALL YOUR CORES ARE BELONG TO NOTHING" (for then I would be the troll) but when it comes up in a thread like this one, I get to call it out...

Oh, and back to your comment -- the account I read of how the term "grindcore" was invented makes it clear that it was simply made up, and not very creatively...and what I find really weird is that I NEVER hear it until now...I was a very active music geek when that term was born, but never heard it used...I know it means I wasn't an insider to that scene, but I still find it interesting that I never ran across it...

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Who the heck let this guy out of OT?

Speaking of which. Where the hell you been? The minions sent me from the depths of hell to pull you back into that special ring known as OT.

 

[Burlington]

On the contrary -- they are absolutely made up (note: I do agree that it's not ALL cases -- but many). The only question is (a) WHO is making them up, and (b) are they meaningful (or "WHY")

And I really have been unfair to the fans on this -- rereading some stuff about "grindcore" I neglected the fact that BANDS are often to blame, trying to give themselves some unique identifier...and "journalists" who need to prove themselves experts in something.

I find it very annoying, and promise not to jump into a whatsit-core debate and scream "ALL YOUR CORES ARE BELONG TO NOTHING" (for then I would be the troll) but when it comes up in a thread like this one, I get to call it out...

Oh, and back to your comment -- the account I read of how the term "grindcore" was invented makes it clear that it was simply made up, and not very creatively...and what I find really weird is that I NEVER hear it until now...I was a very active music geek when that term was born, but never heard it used...I know it means I wasn't an insider to that scene, but I still find it interesting that I never ran across it...

Most are meaningful, though I'm sure some are not.

 

[jive1]

Speaking of which. Where the hell you been? The minions sent me from the depths of hell to pull you back into that special ring known as OT.

I have superstitious reasons related to football for keeping out of OT.

 

[aborgman]

If you're not familiar with something, it's harder to see the differences. It can be the same for Jazz. Someone who isn't familiar with Jazz will confuse it with the Blues, even though there is a difference in the groove. And within Jazz, someone who isn't familiar with it will see Fusion, Cool, Bop, and Swing as the same thing, while a Jazzer will see distinct differences and wonder how someone can't hear the differences.

Same for food and wine, if you are a casual consumer you don't know the differences as much. But a wine conisseur will know the differences between a Merlot and Chianti, but a non wine drinker like me can't appreciate the difference between Boones Farm and a high dollar wine. Both will taste like a red or white wine to me, and not much more. But, I won't deny that is a difference and that a more sophisticated palette can tell the difference.

Being able to tell the fine differences requires requires exposure and an appreciation. If you don't have it, everything will seem the same.

Generally I agree - but sometimes there really is no difference and the distinctions are completely artificial.

And a lot of those wine/food/etc. snobs CAN'T tell a difference and they're just fooling themselves (or sometimes lying).

 

[AltGrendel]

"Don't beat up the kids on the short bus, it just makes you look dumb".

Sigged.

 

[NateS]

Posts like this are the reason THREADS like these should keep coming -- and again, if it't not your bag, don't read it.

Saying "x is death metal not grind, because there's no grind in it" (not to pick on the poster, but it's a perfect example) doesn't tell me anything. I listen to the links listed as "grind," listened to an hour of music in youtube listed as grind (even confirmed that those bands ARE in fact considered grindcore), and still, saying they have more "grind" than death metal communicates nothing to me. But I love seeing the debates when people are able to make solid arguments (like jive's).

I'd be very interested in hearing more from the grinders (fans of grindcore, not the sandwich) on how they distinguish grindcore from death metal...dunno, is cradle of filth grindcore or death metal? Sounds a lot like the grindcore stuff I've listened to, but seems sqaurely in the death metal world IMHO...lyrically very similar to the cannibal corpse stuff, but clearly metal...

Sorry about being vague in terms, and saying there's no "grind". Another poster explained the genres about a good as I can. As it was started, I'd just something I know, and its kind of hard got me to put words typo some of the differences. I can just hear them. Which is something I'm working on