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Guyker Xtender Drop Tuner - How Is This A Thing??
- Thread starter Kevlanco
- Start date
I saw the Guyker and thought WTH? Its a straight rip from the Hipshot detuner.
I also thought it's no value, as with a little googling i can get a Hipshot for $75.
My experience with Hipshot tuner clones was with the non USA Hipshot tuners themselves, the LIC version. I thought they were sloppy and terrible. Hipshots are expensive but you get what you pay for.
IMO Guyker is okay for non critical stuff like string trees and knobs, but if I'm paying money, I want the least failure prone item I can get. That's not Guyker. Money is still money, and when a cheap part fails it money wasted.
Lastly I get mental over one company stealing another's IP. I'm sticking with Hipshot for detuners.
I also thought it's no value, as with a little googling i can get a Hipshot for $75.
My experience with Hipshot tuner clones was with the non USA Hipshot tuners themselves, the LIC version. I thought they were sloppy and terrible. Hipshots are expensive but you get what you pay for.
IMO Guyker is okay for non critical stuff like string trees and knobs, but if I'm paying money, I want the least failure prone item I can get. That's not Guyker. Money is still money, and when a cheap part fails it money wasted.
Lastly I get mental over one company stealing another's IP. I'm sticking with Hipshot for detuners.
No patent violations have occurred. The device was invented by founder of Hipshot, Dave Borisoff, in 1982. The patent was awarded in 1987. Patents are good for 15 years (design) or 20 years (utility). It has been 38 years since the patent was awarded (3 years longer than if a design and a utility patent were to run concurrently). Like what you like as far as manufacturer goes, but get off your high horses folks.
Link Removed
Patent number: 4643069
Abstract: A tuner device for a string instrument such as a guitar including a conventional tuning machine such as one incorporating a worm gear drive for initially tuning a string by controllably rotating the output shaft which has mounted thereon a peg on which a string is wound. The tuning machine is mounted on a support plate assembly which is selectively arcuately rockable through a small angle from its rest position to its operative or detuned position.
Type: Grant
Filed: August 1, 1985
Date of Patent: February 17, 1987
Inventors: David J. Borisoff, Boris Borisoff
I have 2 basses and a guitar with Guyker tuners and think they are just fine, IMHO they are doing some interesting designs and options that are affordable.
I have no experience with Guyker, but I do have many Hipshot tuners and X-tenders and I know their top-notch quality. Speaking as a patent holder myself, I'm ok with bumming off expired patents, but I expect that if you're going to bum off that IP, you should do it better than the original. You've had 20+ years to figure out where it could be improved, so do it! Once a patent is published, it's out there for the world to evaluate, critique, and improve. So as long as you aren't infringing on an active patent, there's no excuse to put out an inferior product once the patent expires. To do anything less is just grifting.
This so important and something that people don't consider when they support cheap products.
Ever bought one of the countless non Fender versions of a Precision or a Jazz?
If the Hipshot patent does prohibit anyone making a copy then I'll be surprised if you can still buy a Guyker copy in two months time but if their patent ISN'T watertight (I suspect it can't be because Guyker aren't stupid) then this is as lost a cause as all of Leo's Fender designs.
You know .com is used EVERYWHERE right?
Companies tend choose it as a suffix to indicate that they operate internationally.
Its original intended purpose for subdomains registered by commercial organizations. Later, the domain opened for general purposes.
But in the early internet pretty much all sites that weren't .org or .gov were .com regardless of if the companies were based in Miami, Tokyo, London, or Madrid.
It wasn't until Google search results started prioritising results that were obviously geographically close to the person searching (circa 2000) that companies that only operate in their own local market started really embracing Country Code suffixes
It's a little more complicated than that. A domain name under a country code can, depending on how the registry is handled, be subject to the regulations of that country. Registering a dotcom subjects you to the copyright regulations and restrictions of the United States, with all that implies.
As a converse example, there are occasional incidents where US-based companies lose their .io or .co domain because either the domain name or the website contents ran afoul of those countries' own regulations.
Utility patents (on the workings of things - design patents are shorter) last 20 years from application today. A couple decades ago they lasted 17 years from issuance (when the patent was granted. Any utility patents on Hipshot D-tuners have long since expired.
On a device like this, the metallurgy, the heat treating, etc are all important. Hipshot knows how to do that. Not sure about Guyker.
I did once (on a lark) buy a couple of Guyker pickups - the price was "great", and....as they came via Amazon, they were easily returnable.....which I took advantage of in very short order. They were, despite the incredibly low price, not even close to a bargain.
A lot of cheaper tuners have cast bodies, which often have voids or other imperfections that make them brittle - a lot of folks post on here about broken tuners. Hipshot's tuners aren't made that way; they last much longer.
Thanks for the discussion everyone. I agree my initial reaction could surely be considered hypocritical if compared to other examples of "competitive free market" consumerism (FSO's, Pedals, Electronics). I guess it was surprising to see, considering there haven't really been many alternatives to Hipshot for drop tuning levers. Particularly ones that use similar thumbscrew-tuned, lever-on-a-plate mechanisms that are also called "Xtender Drop D tuners". Or maybe I would've expected such a product to appear on Wish/Temu with no company name or branding first before being sold by a major part manufacturer.
It seems Guyker has fleshed out their selection quite a bit since I initially became aware of them. These appear to have just hit the market. Would be curious to hear someone's thoughts on them if they do buy one. They look slick, but without being able to inspect both tuners in person, I would chose the hipshot version in a heartbeat. Now if Hipshot had stopped production on these tuners and these were the only option available, that would be a different story.
It deeply saddens me that G&L closed their doors and Fender (or whoever owns them) may never reuse the brilliant designs the company had. I admire Hipshot's innovations and designs, and I'm happy to give them my business and support when I can. I know Guyker will be just fine either way.
It seems Guyker has fleshed out their selection quite a bit since I initially became aware of them. These appear to have just hit the market. Would be curious to hear someone's thoughts on them if they do buy one. They look slick, but without being able to inspect both tuners in person, I would chose the hipshot version in a heartbeat. Now if Hipshot had stopped production on these tuners and these were the only option available, that would be a different story.
It deeply saddens me that G&L closed their doors and Fender (or whoever owns them) may never reuse the brilliant designs the company had. I admire Hipshot's innovations and designs, and I'm happy to give them my business and support when I can. I know Guyker will be just fine either way.
Metal, casting, plating...not rocket science either, but those are where they get their savings, and you don't find out until a tooth shears off. I buy lots of cheap stuff, but let's not pretend every chrome plated part is the same quality because they look the same.
Regarding Schaller, a few years ago I was looking for some Gotoh or Hipshot tuners for a cheap Jazz bass I was doing up as the original tuners were terrible. It seemed at the time neither Hipshot or Gotoh had the type I was looking for in stock in the UK and there was a 2 month leadtime on restock. I bought a set of Schallers and was blown away with the quality, material, precision and price. I thought 'next project I'll buy only Schaller' Next project came along and I wanted 'Y' style closed type and bought a set of Schaller and they were the most awful die cast cheapest nastiest thing's I'd seen, certainly not worth the £90 I forked out. You're right, high brand stuff fluctuates a great deal, although I say this in the design and materials between ranges rather than fluctuations within the range but even some of the most respected manufacturers are responsible for turning out crap and price gouging on their name.
I was aware that dot com wasn't exclusively used for the US, but if I went to Amazon dotcom or Netflix dotcom and 80% of the other dotcoms I'd end up at a US site rather than their regional outlets like dotco dotuk, or dot ie or dot fr. I was merely surmising not stating the entity maybe US based upon the currency needed to purchase and the dotco address, and that a good proportion of TB'rs are US or Canada based that it may have been some interest to them. I do remember the very early 90's when we were all surfing on Netscape Navigator where everything was dotco though.
Anyway looks like a well dodgy site (may be pukka but very sus) I've just taken yet another look and there doesn't appear to be any corporate address merely a 'contact us' email that could be based anywhere on the globe.
But thanks for the lesson again.
