Hammersmith K4 - TalkBass Special Model

[DiabolusInMusic]

Agreed. It seems like they're doing OK with the other models, so the issue is obviously only the K. At this point, the best course of action to me would be to find another factory willing and able to build them. But my opinion is just that, I'm not an expert on global manufacturing...

On the last page, another member mentioned not getting their J (or good communication) so I don't think it is just the K line. Hopefully, @Mvilmany is incorrect in his prediction.

Out of curiosity, do any waiting members have an end date in mind? Are folks content with an indefinite completion date? At least one member appears to be. I had a custom bass built last year which went a little over quote due to a builder error but I was in communication with him the entire time. We know @patobravo is planning to build one come September. I would imagine he asks for a refund to fund the build. Since we are pushing 18 months, I would also imagine most of the buyers cannot get money back unless Marko refunds it. Thankfully, this does not seem to be any issue for previous buyers.

 

[wintremute]

Out of curiosity, do any waiting members have an end date in mind? Are folks content with an indefinite completion date? At least one member appears to be. I had a custom bass built last year which went a little over quote due to a builder error but I was in communication with him the entire time. We know @patobravo is planning to build one come September. I would imagine he asks for a refund to fund the build. Since we are pushing 18 months, I would also imagine most of the buyers cannot get money back unless Marko refunds it. Thankfully, this does not seem to be any issue for previous buyers.

At this point, I'm still going to wait it out. I am not happy with the radio silence, but I've met Marko a few times and I don't get a scammer feel out of him. I think this is all just a bigger workload than he imagined when he started his company. It's a labor of love, and right now is a really, really painful growing process.

I've also held and played a K or two, so I know how they feel. There's really nothing else like it (that I know of), and I'm still GASsing for it. Plus, mine is not going to be one of the TB models, but something more custom. I currently have 7 other basses to tide me over until it finally arrives. I'm not hurting for money, so I can play the waiting game (for now).

 

[Meyatch]

On the last page, another member mentioned not getting their J (or good communication) so I don't think it is just the K line. Hopefully, @Mvilmany is incorrect in his prediction.

Out of curiosity, do any waiting members have an end date in mind? Are folks content with an indefinite completion date? At least one member appears to be. I had a custom bass built last year which went a little over quote due to a builder error but I was in communication with him the entire time. We know @patobravo is planning to build one come September. I would imagine he asks for a refund to fund the build. Since we are pushing 18 months, I would also imagine most of the buyers cannot get money back unless Marko refunds it. Thankfully, this does not seem to be any issue for previous buyers.

I don't know if I'd be willing to wait "indefinitely" but I'm willing to wait a little longer. "Pushing 18 months" is a little disingenuous too, pre-orders were open during the month of February last year, supposedly for a May delivery, which I now realize was wildly optimistic, so I would say they are about a year late, from a date there was very little chance of ever actually making. For the past year or so I've gotten fairly regular email communication from him, so as long as he remains in contact I'm not super worried about it. That said I haven't heard from him for about a month, with weekly emails to him to check in, so that's starting to piss me off.

He has posted some completed basses on Facebook over the past month or so that are for sale. I would be very surprised if a person bought one of those, and then never received it.

He hasn't logged in to talkbass in like a year, which I don't think is a good business move, but its not really the same as being completely unavailable for communication.

If I ever did decide to bail, I would probably roll my deposit (as well as hopefully a "you owe me" discount) into another of his basses. I bought the "passaround" bass that he sent to a few people to try, and its become my #1.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

At this point, I'm still going to wait it out. I am not happy with the radio silence, but I've met Marko a few times I don't get a scammer feel out of him. I think this is all just a bigger workload than he imagined when he started his company. It's a labor of love, and right now is a really, really painful growing process.

I've also held and played a K or two, so I know how they feel. There's really nothing else like it (that I know of), and I'm still GASsing for it. Plus, mine is not going to be one of the TB models, but something more custom. I currently have 7 other basses to tide me over until it finally arrives. I'm not hurting for money, so I can play the waiting game (for now).

I haven't met the man but I would most definitely agree with this given his track record.

 

[Mvilmany]

On the last page, another member mentioned not getting their J (or good communication) so I don't think it is just the K line. Hopefully, @Mvilmany is incorrect in his prediction.

Out of curiosity, do any waiting members have an end date in mind? Are folks content with an indefinite completion date? At least one member appears to be. I had a custom bass built last year which went a little over quote due to a builder error but I was in communication with him the entire time. We know @patobravo is planning to build one come September. I would imagine he asks for a refund to fund the build. Since we are pushing 18 months, I would also imagine most of the buyers cannot get money back unless Marko refunds it. Thankfully, this does not seem to be any issue for previous buyers.

I hope that I am wrong as well. (I have not ordered one of these models, full disclosure.) It does seem unreasonable to have so little communication for those customers who have put their money down, without any kind of follow up. I hope that the guy gets on track with this. They look like really cool basses. 18 months is a long time to wait from something that comes out of China, however I understand he’s got problems with his manufacturer’s priorities. I just hope that the handful of pre-orders he received for these bases, including you guys, doesn’t get swept under the rug on intentionally. Good luck!

 

[ScarfFace]

Hey everyone, Marko sent me the following message and asked if I could share it with you all.


"The Ks are still happening, but it's no longer reasonable to ask for patience. The pre-order program has obviously not gone to plan and become a total botch job at this point - totally my responsibility - and so the proper thing to do is pull the plug on the pre-orders and give everyone (who wants one) a refund on their deposit as funds allows. I have basses up for sale as well as some balances coming in, which will fund the refunds. I am unable to dip into lighting company money, or further into my pocket in order to do the refunds themselves - it has to come from the turning the value of instruments into paypal $ that can immediately be flipped to those who are owed. I have limited stock so I can't do a substitute instrument for everyone, but I may be able to do a couple as materials allow - otherwise it's better to sell the available instruments at full pop, which can fund at least two refunds each.

I realize I've been very slow with communications, but email is the best way to discuss anything official as it leaves a record of what was discussed. I get so many FB messages that it's very hard to keep up, let alone keep the details of conversations clear. Emails are absolutely best for that once there is money or build specs involved. I haven't read the thread, but wanted to make a post here so that anyone who is unsure what is going on gets an update. This will get sorted out. I am thoroughly embarrassed at the way the program went off the rails and for not being more communicative. Having this hang over me and the company is both stressful and depressing, but I can't let it undo the good that the company has done. Things have to continue forward and by cancelling the pre-orders, it stops the questions of "When?" and allows me to let it happen on the timeline that it needs, rather than one where I have to make promises I don't know if I can keep.

If anyone is still willing to wait, then your K will be considered paid in full at their deposit amount. Anyone who wants to flip their deposit towards a different bass will have their $450 deposit become an $800 credit towards to total price of that replacement (but again, I can only do this for maybe 2 or 3 instruments as deposit refunds for the larger group must take priority). I'll go through the list and try to send everyone emails over the weekend, or if you want to send me an email note about your preference (refund, alternate bass, etc...) that can start the ball rolling. Again, sorry for the silence but without clear answers, almost anything I did say could have later turned into another broken promise or be perceived as a lie, which wouldn't be any good either. I can't undo what's done, but I will make things right with anyone who placed an order and was let down. Thanks -Marko"

 

[Vltir Sarnat]

Glad I got my refund before he spent it.

 

[Fat Freddy]

View attachment 3020739
Glad I got my refund before he spent it.

Yep!....

 

[two fingers]

View attachment 3020739
Glad I got my refund before he spent it.

Yep!....

I'm not so sure. I realize a lot of things have gone south for Hammersmith. I think the biggest thing was just that Marko thought that if he placed an order with a manufacturer, it would get filled in a reasonable amount of time. That simply isn't the case. He's not a big enough player yet to get his orders placed in a regular cue.

In other words, if you build 50 cars a year, you have to have a source for parts. If you order parts on Tuesday, and Ford orders parts on Wednesday and Chevy Orders parts on Thursday, and Toyota orders parts on Friday, it doesn't matter that your order came "first". You will get bumped indefinitely until all the big players get their parts. They may fill three of Ford's orders before they ever come back and fill yours.

That seems to be what happened here (if I am understanding it correctly).

Marko has recently separated his companies, flown to the factory several times, and hasn't shut down. That tells me he isn't giving up.

Whatever else has happened, or what happens in the future, I don't think "That's All Folks" just yet.

If for no other reason than his product is of good quality, I hope it comes together for him.

He has acknowledged a need to tighten up his communication. That's been an obvious sticking point. But I can imagine having to send out a hundred emails per week saying "no news yet" is (to use his term) "depressing".

Best of luck to all involved. Hopefully, ten years from now, we can all have a good laugh over Hammersmith's rough start. And they will be a player in this game. That works out for us to have another option for high quality basses at a reasonable price.

I wouldn't care at all if my Hammersmith bass weren't such a great instrument. It is. And I hope someday others can get their hands on one in a reasonable amount of time and in a way that saves us and profits Marko.

I have my bass, and have no relationship whatsoever with Hammersmith or Marko. So I have no "vested interest" in wishing him well.

I do, however, admire entrepreneurs. And I do love my bass. So I honestly do hope it all comes together.

 

[Fat Freddy]

I'm not so sure. I realize a lot of things have gone south for Hammersmith. I think the biggest thing was just that Marko thought that if he placed an order with a manufacturer, it would get filled in a reasonable amount of time. That simply isn't the case. He's not a big enough player yet to get his orders placed in a regular cue.

In other words, if you build 50 cars a year, you have to have a source for parts. If you order parts on Tuesday, and Ford orders parts on Wednesday and Chevy Orders parts on Thursday, and Toyota orders parts on Friday, it doesn't matter that your order came "first". You will get bumped indefinitely until all the big players get their parts. They may fill three of Ford's orders before they ever come back and fill yours.

That seems to be what happened here (if I am understanding it correctly).

Marko has recently separated his companies, flown to the factory several times, and hasn't shut down. That tells me he isn't giving up.

Whatever else has happened, or what happens in the future, I don't think "That's All Folks" just yet.

If for no other reason than his product is of good quality, I hope it comes together for him.

He has acknowledged a need to tighten up his communication. That's been an obvious sticking point. But I can imagine having to send out a hundred emails per week saying "no news yet" is (to use his term) "depressing".

Best of luck to all involved. Hopefully, ten years from now, we can all have a good laugh over Hammersmith's rough start. And they will be a player in this game. That works out for us to have another option for high quality basses at a reasonable price.

I wouldn't care at all if my Hammersmith bass weren't such a great instrument. It is. And I hope someday others can get their hands on one in a reasonable amount of time and in a way that saves us and profits Marko.

I have my bass, and have no relationship whatsoever with Hammersmith or Marko. So I have no "vested interest" in wishing him well.

I do, however, admire entrepreneurs. And I do love my bass. So I honestly do hope it all comes together.

I couldn't agree more with the wishes that Marko succeeds with his business....

I sincerely hope that it all comes together and turns into a howling success....

If and when that happens, and he has stock, there's still a very good chance that I 'll be buying a K Bass from him.....

Having said that, I think that it was pretty naughty of Marko to have taken deposits and give promises when he was, clearly, unable to deliver at that time, or, for that matter at ANY time yet....

I had, private, words with Marko about this and I'm not going to waffle on any further except to state once again that I personally bear him no malice and really do hope that he gets his ducks in a row and can start to deliver what is, clearly, going to be an excellent product.....

Oh....and I'm still very glad that I got my money back when I did.....

 

[corndog]

Hopefully he can make this work. Deposit means paid in full. Good deal when they come in I guess.

Using a messenger to send the message though?

 

[wintremute]

I'm still in. When it comes, it comes.

 

[jumbodbassman]

im still in also. like the concept of the K and thought the pass around bass was high quality.....

 

[Meyatch]

I'd like to hear more from him about any kind of tentative timeline or plan of action. I really want the k bass, but "sometime in the next 5 years" is not what I'm looking for. Its an amazing design, and 100% me, but there are so many other basses that are 99% me, other ones from from hammersmith, or other basses altogether.

 

[DerekW]

I’ll wait for the K myself, at least for the foreseeable future, not sure if he had another short scale anyway?

 

[primussucks9126]

I'll definitely wait. I think the K is a perfect fit for me, and despite this whole fiasco, I think Marko has good intentions. He doesn't seem to be going the way of Dr Bass or SGD, and I think the offers he's made in that passed along message are really fair. Being paid in full if/when the K finally arrives is a huge incentive for me to stick with it.

As it's been said, Hammersmith is a small fish in a big pond, and his supplier is giving him the shaft. I don't think Marko could have forseen that, and I don't feel like it's a deliberate scam/misrepresentation of anything.

I really like supporting small businesses, and I've got my fingers crossed for Hammersmith.

However, communication needs to be improved. He should start an email group with all the K customers to keep us updated. What happened during his visits to China? Is he still going to switch to another supplier? What's the best case/worst case time estimate he can give us? These are all things that we should have answers to.

 

[wintremute]

However, communication needs to be improved. He should start an email group with all the K customers to keep us updated.

THIS! 100% this.

 

[Sodbuster]

I chose to ask for a refund at the beginning of May. I was as pumped about the K as anybody. Frankly I grew tired of fielding questions from people about if or when I was going to get my new bass, and having no answer. Granted, these people are not familiar with the community here on TB, and to a person they gave me the are you sure you weren't taken for a ride? look. As stated in an earlier post, the lack of communication is what irked me. Simply grew tired of waiting for some sort of news. Kudos to those who are sticking it out. I can live without a Hammersmith.

 

[primussucks9126]

THIS! 100% this.

I realize this isn't our job, but is there anything we can do to make that happen?

 

[Metronomicus]

View attachment 3020739
Glad I got my refund before he spent it.

I chose to ask for a refund at the beginning of May. I was as pumped about the K as anybody. Frankly I grew tired of fielding questions from people about if or when I was going to get my new bass, and having no answer. Granted, these people are not familiar with the community here on TB, and to a person they gave me the are you sure you weren't taken for a ride? look. As stated in an earlier post, the lack of communication is what irked me. Simply grew tired of waiting for some sort of news. Kudos to those who are sticking it out. I can live without a Hammersmith.

I asked for my refund in the middle of April, and have been told that I will get it when he sells enough basses to get to my refund. He told me he'd hoped to have it to me by about May 11th. No refund yet, no response to my follow up email. Marko seems like a nice guy, but the lack of comms throughout the whole process (except when accepting my deposit), have been very poor, which is not a good look. And now that my refund is dependent on Marko selling enough pre-made basses to get to me in the line of refunds, I'm not cool with learning that my deposit wasn't really taken in good faith, but just with high hopes. I don't believe that's a reasonable way to manage people's expectations. My opinion only. And i'm glad others are holding out for their instruments. I hope in the end everyone is happy with what they got.