Has anyone bought and NOT liked a Sadowsky??

[nostatic]

I

Neck is 1 7/8" at the nut.....same as Sadowsky and just guessing as they use a Hipshot bridge, 19mm (3/4") at the bridge string spacing.

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Again, no disrespect meant. Just you main points don't really make any sense. Maybe a little further explaination.....

Stock Lull is 18mm. I've owned Sadowsky and currently have a Lull. I can say that for me, my hands, my preferences, I find the Lull more comfortable to play, and in fact this was a primary reason I sold my Sadowsky. Roger will do 18mm custom order for a NYC though.

I had a Sadowsky PJ 5 and now have a Lull PJ5. Of the two I prefer the Lull for the string spacing and the weight (Lull is 8.4 lbs, my Metro was about 9.5 lbs). That said, the Lull is passive and the Sadowsky was active, so the Sadowsky "wins" on tone flexibility (the VTC rocks).

Both are great basses, but there are real differences between the two. And actually the lowest usable action (again, in my hands) of any of mine goes to the Roscoe but that is another beast...

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, hand made by, if I recall correctly, the same crew that builds/built the Atilier Z basses.

So are any Sadowsky basses CNC'd?

 

[Jared Lash]

So are any Sadowsky basses CNC'd?

Yes.

Roger answered that a couple years ago in the big thread that Jim S started.

From what I gathered all the bodies are CNC'd by an outside subcontractor (just as subcontractors put together the circuit boards for the preamps to the Sadowsky specifications) and all the sanding and refining are done in house.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yes.

Roger answered that a couple years ago in the big thread that Jim S started.

From what I gathered all the bodies are CNC'd by an outside subcontractor (just as subcontractors put together the circuit boards for the preamps to the Sadowsky specifications) and all the sanding and refining are done in house.

And then sent out for finish?

 

[KJung]

So are any Sadowsky basses CNC'd?

Jimmy Coppolo is working to get a CNC thing going also. Nice for doing the rough work (body blanks, etc.), keeping the product constant (like neck profile), etc., and allows the luthier and/or expert assemblers to focus their time on the subtle stuff... neck pocket, fretwork, fine sanding, etc.

While there is something to be said for a full hand made thing (like Jimmy Coppolo is doing now, and also the way Chris Celinder made his basses) I really like the uber consistency of the Sadowsky basses. Kind of the 'best of all worlds' to me regarding construction technique... plenty of 'hand made' involved, but some CNC automation to keep wait times reasonable, and to assure consistency where consistency is good.

I don't think there is any difference in the construction techniques of the Metro's versus the NYC... CNC rough parts, expert finishing and assembling. There are differences in other ways (graphite bars in the neck for potential dead spot reduction, US made tuners, routing to reduce weight, etc.), but if you don't get a fancy top, the two lines are quite similar IMO and IME.

 

[KJung]

And then sent out for finish?

Correct... Wilkins I believe... the master!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Jimmy Coppolo is working to get a CNC thing going also. Nice for doing the rough work (body blanks, etc.), keeping the product constant (like neck profile), etc., and allows the luthier and/or expert assemblers to focus their time on the subtle stuff... neck pocket, fretwork, fine sanding, etc.

While there is something to be said for a full hand made thing (like Jimmy Coppolo is doing now, and also the way Chris Celinder made his basses) I really like the uber consistency of the Sadowsky basses. Kind of the 'best of all worlds' to me regarding construction technique... plenty of 'hand made' involved, but some CNC automation to keep wait times reasonable, and to assure consistency where consistency is good.

I don't think there is any difference in the construction techniques of the Metro's versus the NYC... CNC rough parts, expert finishing and assembling. There are differences in other ways (graphite bars in the neck for potential dead spot reduction, US made tuners, routing to reduce weight, etc.), but if you don't get a fancy top, the two lines are quite similar IMO and IME.

I knew Sadowsky used CNC'd parts, didn't know it was just bodies and basically was just trying to get a handle on what people consider "hand made" these days.

 

[KJung]

I knew Sadowsky used CNC'd parts, didn't know it was just bodies and basically was just trying to get a handle on what people consider "hand made" these days.

It's getting harder and harder to define that. It is pretty cool to see all those shop photo's of Jimmy C. with those old pin routers and sanders really 'hand making' his basses. However, I think he came to the conclusion that not having the rough work done by machine is a bit silly at this point.

I heard rumors that Fodera is even going to outsourse the body roughs, etc., so Vinny can work on the 'good stuff'... not sure how true that is.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Correct... Wilkins I believe... the master!

"A" master, no doubt.

 

[nostatic]

This is an interesting video of the Roscoe guys doing both CNC *and* hand on different bodies:



Rob Allen instruments start out CNC as well (done in-house). The whole luthier-partsBuilder argument never seems to stop...bottom line - if the bass is good the builder is good.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's getting harder and harder to define that. It is pretty cool to see all those shop photo's of Jimmy C. with those old pin routers and sanders really 'hand making' his basses. However, I think he came to the conclusion that not having the rough work done by machine is a bit silly at this point.

I heard rumors that Fodera is even going to outsourse the body roughs, etc., so Vinny can work on the 'good stuff'... not sure how true that is.

The term remains the same, it's just that some are changing how it's applied.

I have no problem with CNC'd parts, Kevin Brubaker's just released a model that he'll be having bodies and necks CNC'd for (about 20 minutes from his shop). But he considers it a production bass vs. a fully custom one. Even though he's still doing everything except the basic parts cutting.

By the current shading I'm wondering what isn't "hand made"?

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is an interesting video of the Roscoe guys doing both CNC *and* hand on different bodies:



Rob Allen instruments start out CNC as well (done in-house). The whole luthier-partsBuilder argument never seems to stop...bottom line - if the bass is good the builder is good.

Where's the "argument"? That's certainly not what I'm doing.

 

[phillipkregg]

"A" master, no doubt.

Yeah, I met him one time and he even has a card to prove it!

Here's what it looked like:

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, I met him one time and he even has a card to prove it!

Here's what it looked like:

Okay. Your bar is set way too low.


Edit: I'll explain for those who might not have gotten the joke. If carrying a Mastercard makes you a Master, according to my wallet I'm not only a master but also a train conductor* who can travel unencumbered** through most countries.






*American Express
**with a Visa

 

[Lorenzini]

Brad. Wow. Your signature defies your every comment.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yay!

Next.

 

[Jared Lash]

I knew Sadowsky used CNC'd parts, didn't know it was just bodies and basically was just trying to get a handle on what people consider "hand made" these days.

The necks too. Roger has said that Sadowsky buys all the wood directly but has the body blanks and necks CNC'd and shipped in unsanded for all the remaning work (save for finishing) to be done by hand.

I agree that it hardly constitutes "hand made", but I'm not sure how you communicate that the rough shaping is contracted out but all of the finer details are done meticulously by expert hands.

A guy like Chris Stambaugh does everything by hand, but being a small, relatively unknown one man shop (I do believe he has an assistant now) he can do that and keep up with his orders. As a bass builders (and orders for his basses) grow, changes have to be made to keep up with demand. When that happens it becomes hard to say what constitutes hand made exactly or where the line is drawn between a production instrument and a "hand made" one.

But as Ken points out, it doesn't really matter. Sadowsky basses have nearly flawless fit and finish regardless of the methods used. Then again, so do Stambaughs. While the semantics of the build process can be interesting to discuss, only the final product really matters. I would say they are NOT "hand made" basses. But that isn't a negative, just my opinion on what constitutes "hand made".

"A" master, no doubt.

Yeah, I've never owned one but the finish on every Brubaker I've seen have convinced me that he's the best in the game. Wilkins is fantastic though. And there are quite a few others out there that are near the top as well.

 

[MikeBass]

Brad. Wow. Your signature DEFINES your every comment.

Here fixed it for ya.......






Luv ya Bradley ol' boy!!!

 

[Brad Johnson]

Here fixed it for ya.......






Luv ya Bradley ol' boy!!!

Nice fix... now tell me what I got wrong?



Seriously, it looks like a cordial conversation to me. Maybe you two disagree?

BTW my name's Brad, not Bradley. Thanks.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The necks too. Roger has said that Sadowsky buys all the wood directly but has the body blanks and necks CNC'd and shipped in unsanded for all the remaning work (save for finishing) to be done by hand.

I agree that it hardly constitutes "hand made", but I'm not sure how you communicate that the rough shaping is contracted out but all of the finer details are done meticulously by expert hands.

A guy like Chris Stambaugh does everything by hand, but being a small, relatively unknown one man shop (I do believe he has an assistant now) he can do that and keep up with his orders. As a bass builders (and orders for his basses) grow, changes have to be made to keep up with demand. When that happens it becomes hard to say what constitutes hand made exactly or where the line is drawn between a production instrument and a "hand made" one.

But as Ken points out, it doesn't really matter. Sadowsky basses have nearly flawless fit and finish regardless of the methods used. Then again, so do Stambaughs. While the semantics of the build process can be interesting to discuss, only the final product really matters. I would say they are NOT "hand made" basses. But that isn't a negative, just my opinion on what constitutes "hand made".

I just recall many threads where the terminology was discussed and found this tangent interesting.

Apologies to those who think it's somehow wrong. Maybe you're taking this as some sort of criticism, in which case you're way off base.


All hand made used to mean that... but it doesn't preclude the use of power tools or jigs and ultimately their CNC's are a combination of both. Here's where it gets interesting (at least to me):

The new Brubaker production basses, by the standards discussed here, would be considered all hand made. Granted the first ones (prototypes if you will) are made completely in his shop, the rest will be made about a half hour away. Would they still be considered all hand made if the body and neck blank were made in China via CNC with wood he sends them if that makes a difference? Same process, different countries of origin for components.

Yeah, I've never owned one but the finish on every Brubaker I've seen have convinced me that he's the best in the game. Wilkins is fantastic though. And there are quite a few others out there that are near the top as well.

Indeed there are, that's why I wrote "a" master because Pat clearly is. Hell, he might even be "the" master... I've seen some amazing finish work in my travels, just thought I'd throw that out there.