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Has bill fitzmaurice gone awol?

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#23
Every forum has it's own slant. At TGP it's high dollar pedals and uber rare hand built amps. And it's rare that you can ask a "choice question" without being piled on with high dollar choices that you never mentioned being in consideration, or that you ruled out with your first post. And then the snide remarks start when you kindly try to say "Thank you, but I didn't ask about any of those" or "Thanks, but that's outside my budget". Often you can wind up followed into other threads and continue to get barbed when the discussion is something totally different. It's juvenile and completely unnecessary. And it gets some guys pushing and getting snarky the other way.

Same thing here with cab acoustics. I see it often. Someone asks a question within certain parameters, advice way outside the parameters starts, then the snarky comments or GIFs, and often being followed into other discussions. I've been subject to it myself.

The science says what it says. We get it. But if we're asking about something totally different, or if we have a limited choice that doesn't give acoustic scientists the warm and fuzzies, no need to pile on or get snarky. You get pushback at some point. The other side gets sick of hearing it. This is music ... not math. Some people approach it differently and that's no reason to make it personal.

So if BFM feels like no one is listening and he needs to roll .... best wishes. Because at some point it just becomes ridiculous when every single g@dd@&% question brings out the math nerds. I have degrees in Industrial Engineering Technology and a BS in Computer Science. I had physics in college. I get it. But Jesus effing christ guys. Some of you run that stuff in the ground so I can understand the backlash. People get sick of the high and mighty attitude sometimes and push back. You expected different?

And the mods have a job to do so this place doesn't turn into HC. If you don't like the rules ... play in another sandbox.
 
#24
jnewmark said:
Bill could get a little heavy handed with the tech stuff, and did not suffer fools willingly. You can get much the same knowledge from guys like Duke in a much more user friendly way. Just my 2 cents.
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Pretty much my feeling as well. If you are not someone who is willing to put up with some foolishness, then a public internet forum might not be the best place for you to hang out.
 
#25
He could offer great info, he could also step outside his "comfort zone". He was fed up and did the right thing. When you find yourself unable to teach and just spu blind facts and attitude it is time. I miss the passive-aggressive face-palms but they were not conducive to educating?
Maybe it is just me but I have seen less fighting since he departed?
 
#28
Personally, I found BFM's posts to be helpful and entertaining...sometimes he got a bit coarse or short tempered...didn't ever bother me, though I do agree that rules is rules :)

There's a fair number of self appointed gurus here that are way more alarming to me than any harsh thing Bill ever said, but again, I try not to be the sort who gets all worked up over a strangers opinion on an internet forum :D
 
#30
You guys can say what you want about Bill's demeanor, and his cab designs, but I never heard him say anything that wasn't completely factual and relatively easy to prove in regard to cabs, speakers, and design. He certainly straightened out a lot of misconceptions I had, and thanks to his knowledge and willingness to discuss it freely, straightening out acoustic problems on gigs became a million times easier for me. Don't blame him for others misinterpreting what he said.
 
#31
In honor of Bill - another tidbit of information, which of course will "backfire"

"The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking."

"The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

"What should be evident from the studies on the backfire effect is you can never win an argument online. When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before you started the debate..."

Science and Engineering are not belief systems. They are methodologies and disciplines. Sometimes it sure upsets those that believe otherwise. :D
 
#33
Hobobob said:
yeah, he got sick of arguing with internet tough guys who wear their scientific illiteracy like a badge of honor. I learned a lot from him while he was here, but I miss his insight.
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JimmyM said:
You guys can say what you want about Bill's demeanor, and his cab designs, but I never heard him say anything that wasn't completely factual and relatively easy to prove in regard to cabs, speakers, and design. He certainly straightened out a lot of misconceptions I had, and thanks to his knowledge and willingness to discuss it freely, straightening out acoustic problems on gigs became a million times easier for me. Don't blame him for others misinterpreting what he said.
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+1 and +1
 
#35
JimmyM said:
...I never heard [Bill Fitzmaurice] say anything that wasn't completely factual and relatively easy to prove in regard to cabs, speakers, and design. He certainly straightened out a lot of misconceptions I had, and thanks to his knowledge and willingness to discuss it freely, straightening out acoustic problems on gigs became a million times easier for me.
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+1 to all of that, Jimmy.
 
#36
12bass said:
Saying that some people have resisted any new information, any adjustment to their position, any thought of sorting out their jumbled arguments into logical pieces for inspection, or even being willing to entertain a new thought exercise is not the same as saying they smell or wear ugly clothes. It is describing a hardened mentality that has resisted an open dialogue. That's not a personal attack. That is describing a set of experiences and suggesting that part of the reason for frustration and lack of communication leading to unproductive discussions lies upon the stubbornness of some people who think they know everything, and conversely and more importantly do not think others have any thoughts that rise to become worthy of their consideration. Smart people don't stop listening just because they think they know the answer already.

I'll give a specific example.

When talking about phase response of dissimilar drivers BFM showed charts of two drivers and how their phase responses would interact. However, AgedHorse also has two charts that show dissimilar drivers that work fine together and have no phase response issues. Which do people remember? The BFM charts that support their position.

But whereas BFM's charts were selected from purportedly random drivers, you cannot ignore the fact that they were selected to make a point and demonstrate the issue. AgedHorse however has two charts from drivers that are of different sizes but of the same manufacturer, model, and series.

This is an example of affirmation bias. Taking a position then agreeing with and amplifying all the facts that support it, while ignoring any that do not. Most of the people who wave the "I'm a facts guy and like science" banner seem to fall victim to this very unscientific practice. Some of this is likely due to the "here we go again" feeling when the discussion comes up for the 1000th time.


I've been more wrong than right - but have been willing to listen, learn and adjust my thinking.

Also to put this in context - most people have greatly chilled out since BFM stopped posting here. Much of what I am describing above is thankfully becoming part of the past. I think we are better off now based on the totality of the situation.
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#37
JimmyM said:
You guys can say what you want about Bill's demeanor, and his cab designs, but I never heard him say anything that wasn't completely factual and relatively easy to prove in regard to cabs, speakers, and design. He certainly straightened out a lot of misconceptions I had, and thanks to his knowledge and willingness to discuss it freely, straightening out acoustic problems on gigs became a million times easier for me. Don't blame him for others misinterpreting what he said.
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I think the crux of a significant problem is others interpreting Bill's comments more broadly than he originally intended, saying things that no longer made sense, and then backing it up with a snarky "it's science" comment.
 
#39
seamonkey said:
In honor of Bill - another tidbit of information, which of course will "backfire"

"The Misconception: When your beliefs are challenged with facts, you alter your opinions and incorporate the new information into your thinking."

"The Truth: When your deepest convictions are challenged by contradictory evidence, your beliefs get stronger."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

"What should be evident from the studies on the backfire effect is you can never win an argument online. When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before you started the debate..."

Science and Engineering are not belief systems. They are methodologies and disciplines. Sometimes it sure upsets those that believe otherwise. :D
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All too true, and sadly, seems to be getting worse.
There-is-a-competing-theory.jpg

There are legitimate differences of opinion (e.g. maple vs. rosewood), but not all debates are qualify as such. Some "controversies" (such as evolution) are not a matter of opinion, they are fact vs. fiction. Likewise, the "underpowering debate" isn't a debate: you can't damage a woofer by underpowering it. Frankly I don't think anyone should be able to propagate that lie no matter how polite they are -- but I'm not sure how to moderate it cleanly because these discussions can get tangled (e.g. tweeters can be vulnerable to square waves).

I'm actually surprised that BFM played "whack a mole" with the underpowered ignorami for as long as he did, and I'm grateful to him for it.
 
#40
DigitalMan said:
I'll give a specific example.

When talking about phase response of dissimilar drivers BFM showed charts of two drivers and how their phase responses would interact. However, AgedHorse also has two charts that show dissimilar drivers that work fine together and have no phase response issues. Which do people remember? The BFM charts that support their position.

But whereas BFM's charts were selected from purportedly random drivers, you cannot ignore the fact that they were selected to make a point and demonstrate the issue. AgedHorse however has two charts from drivers that are of different sizes but of the same manufacturer, model, and series.

This is an example of affirmation bias. Taking a position then agreeing with and amplifying all the facts that support it, while ignoring any that do not. Most of the people who wave the "I'm a facts guy and like science" banner seem to fall victim to this very unscientific practice. Some of this is likely due to the "here we go again" feeling when the discussion comes up for the 1000th time.
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Bill never once said that mixed drivers can't work. He always said that the phase relationships between mixed drivers are unpredictable are just as likely not to work as work, which is absolutely true. One thing he did err on, though, is his claim that manufacturers don't put any thought into whether their cabs with different drivers would work together, and Andy proved that some of them actually do.
 
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