have the D's toppled the SVT's?

[larrymon74]

Larry, that's a pretty broad brush you are painting with.

It was meant to be. And I get to choose the color that goes on the canvas

The Subway and Drarkglass seem to be the only thing worth trying at this point but I haven't really been motivated based on past experience.

I haven't been able to try the Darkglass, but you should give the Subway a chance. I also tried the Tonehammer and was disappointed, I felt like I was playing a smaller version of a solid state Crate head that was stolen from me back in the early 90's, just smaller and lighter. I tried all sorts of Eden products but the newer stuff didn't hold a candle to the first line they released (which is where my last amp came from).

I have played many SVT rigs and I just don't get the attraction. The tone is awesome, but I'll be damned if I am gonna haul an 810 SVT cab and a 90lb all tube head for a gig. That's just not worth it for me, especially since I got a Subway D 800 with dual 112 Subway cabs. It's just as loud, tone is just as good if not better and way more versatile.... and that's before I even get to the weight and ease of portability.

The Subway rig with the dual 112 cabs weighs in at a total of 71lbs, still less than the SVT head alone. With the weight, volume level, clarity and tone, I think we have a winner

 

[Anachronism]

The Subway is very good, but still can't beat my Buster for tone.

 

[Bassmec]

I agree with everything you said except for the last statement. The all tube has already been slain by solid state class D. Even the lowly hybrids outsell the full tube amps by a wide margin, and solid state class D outsells the hybrids again.

Yup you will find a similar parallel in the automotive industry.
Ford Fiestas are far more popular than Ford GT 40's.X

 

[quickfix]

Yup you will find a similar parallel in the automotive industry.
Ford Fiestas are far more popular than Ford GT 40's.X

That's not even close to a similar parallel. You're saying that 50 years ago everyone was driving a Ford GT40.

 

[XrisThaBassman]

However he does use Orange AD200s going into a cab simulator, but you were saying?

Sure, but for all intents and purposes he was using them as pre-amps. What is driving the Palmer speaker sim? Pretty sure it's solid state.

 

[bucephylus]

Yup you will find a similar parallel in the automotive industry.
Ford Fiestas are far more popular than Ford GT 40's.X

Ignorant insult + = NOT good Bass Talk.

 

[Dougie44]

I can help you with this...

So a class D/SMPS amp rated at 400 watts "RMS" has a power input rating required by the safety testing agencies based on the AVERAGE power output of 1/8-rated power. So, doing the math on a typical 85% efficient amp:

400W x 1/8 = 50 watts x 85% efficiency is 59 watts AC input. This would be the minimum AC input power that could be marked on the chassis (assuming the amp is rated at 8 ohms)

Now what I suspect you are seeing is that the amp's output power power is not rated based on RMS voltage but peak voltage (power would be correctly called peak power, even though it may not be defined in the marketing literature) so in that case the math would be:

400 watts peak power x 1/2 = 200 watts "RMS" power

200W x 1/8 = 25 watts x 85% efficiency is 29 watts AC input. This would be the minimum AC input power that could be marked on the chassis (assuming the amp is rated at 8 ohms)

This is pretty close, but it shows the concept.

Now the rated AC input power rating is allowed to be based on greater than 1/8 rated power IF the amplifier is designed, intended and marketed to be operated in greater than 1/8 average power conditions, but the minimum number is as I outlined in the math above. The purpose of this number is to help in coordinating the average load on a circuit, has nothing to do with audio.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dougie44]

So what would be the efficiency of a tube amp with all the heat with things

 

[Jon_Cocktoastel]

GK, Fusion 800, the SVT Killa. actually MarkBass killed them , every one on the pig pile is burying them, the DI, in a GK fusion balanced out is almost as good as an Avalon U5. for live use, I'm in ears so the only thing my cabinet is for stage Monitor for those who are not in ear.

 

[Jeff Scott]

 

[basscooker]

Until the 100% true experience of playing a powerful tube head can be translated into a different topology there will always be a market for powerful tube heads.

 

[peterpalmieri]

It was meant to be. And I get to choose the color that goes on the canvas



I haven't been able to try the Darkglass, but you should give the Subway a chance. I also tried the Tonehammer and was disappointed, I felt like I was playing a smaller version of a solid state Crate head that was stolen from me back in the early 90's, just smaller and lighter. I tried all sorts of Eden products but the newer stuff didn't hold a candle to the first line they released (which is where my last amp came from).

I have played many SVT rigs and I just don't get the attraction. The tone is awesome, but I'll be damned if I am gonna haul an 810 SVT cab and a 90lb all tube head for a gig. That's just not worth it for me, especially since I got a Subway D 800 with dual 112 Subway cabs. It's just as loud, tone is just as good if not better and way more versatile.... and that's before I even get to the weight and ease of portability.

The Subway rig with the dual 112 cabs weighs in at a total of 71lbs, still less than the SVT head alone. With the weight, volume level, clarity and tone, I think we have a winner

The V4b and 2 210avs are about as easy a schlep as any pair of 210 neos and a micro head. Given a not huge venue or PA support they do a good svt sound. Although I don't shy away from using an 810. I've always owned SUVs and have a garage for the 810 storage. I don't expect everyone does.

 

[agedhorse]

This sure seems a lot like discussing the merits of fine wines eh?

 

[Interceptor]

At some point there comes the day one finds their tone. I found mine almost 40 years ago through a Standel solid state rig. I like well done solid state. Found it again with a Thunderfunk after chasing my tail way too long. For some players it is the SVT sound or stay home. There isn't a replacement for that thing. Buy the real thing and buck up.

I'm obviously an older player. I also am an outlier in that I really don't care anymore what my rig weighs. I also gig regularly. How I sound matters far more to me than the inconvenience of the few minutes the hump takes.

 

[Korladis]

I feel bad for the stubborn SVT herd, they don't know what they are missing. Don't be so quick to underestimate solid state/ class D amplification. Once you step away from the rest of the SVT sheeple, you may just be surprised

I don't play an SVT, but I think plenty of those who do have played solid state heads and class D.

Calling players "sheeple" just for knowing what they like and not finding it among the newer amps is pretty condescending.

 

[Korladis]

I own some guitar tube amps , but never owned a tube bass amp. No one seems to care about my bass tone. That being said , I think the SVT will be around for a long time.

I know that at least one person cares about my bass tone. Me.

Disclaimer: I've posted above that I don't think the SVT is going anywhere and happen to enjoy playing them when I get the opportunity.

That said, and just for the sake of tossing stuff around, I wonder how many players who gig their SVT have actually put one of the new gen micros on the 810 cab for a gig just to see what happens. Because a) I had my brain reset when I put my Shuttle 9 on a Berg 610 a bunch of years ago (and promptly sold my tube head and gigged that funny looking rig for more than a year); and b) the newer bunch of micros, such as the Mesa, the Genzler, and the Berg are actually pretty impressive.

I recently acquired the Berg. VERY impressive little box.

Mainly, it's just important to keep in mind that comparing the SVT on an 810 to a Tonehammer on a 112 isn't the right way to look at the situation.

I will admit that the Sunn 2x15 actually seems to be a bigger factor in my tone than the amp. I've used my drummer's GK before through the same cab and was able to EQ in a similar sound as I get with my D-180. Not quite the same feel, and a bit different with pedals, but close. And closer than using the same bass and amp through a different cab.

Still prefer the D-180 though, and I've played micros I liked, but none that I liked enough to actually seriously consider buying. But that's okay... not every product on the market needs to be tailored to me.

 

[StayLow]

I will admit that the Sunn 2x15 actually seems to be a bigger factor in my tone than the amp....

This is a good point. I wonder how many people - certainly not you and not all, but I'll bet it's a high number - mistake the sound of say an 8x10 cabinet with the sound of the SVT sitting on top of that cab. Then there's sealed vs. ported. Maybe ceramic vs. neo. Conversely small amps are typically played through small cabs, often at low volumes.

 

[JimmyM]

View attachment 977711

That's not even funny.

 

[JimmyM]

This is a good point. I wonder how many people - certainly not you and not all, but I'll bet it's a high number - mistake the sound of say an 8x10 cabinet with the sound of the SVT sitting on top of that cab.

Yeah, that's what all tube haters say

I've had many occasions to test that theory when my old SVT would throw a tube. My Heritage has been solid for 3 1/2 years but my 69 SVT has lost a few along the way. I'm certainly not going to insult anyone's intelligence by saying that micros aren't fully capable of delivering the goods on a gig. The times where I had to sub out a micro, it sounded pretty great. Nobody felt cheated, I got a sound I liked, and everyone was happy. But you can totally tell the difference. Might be subtle enough to some where it wouldn't matter to them, but for me it's nearly impossible not to notice. So I'd have to disagree that it's all about the cabinet. It's also very much about the head.

On the bright side, those who say that's way more important to play righteously than to have top-notch gear that costs a few grand are correct.

 

[Korladis]

Yeah, that's what all tube haters say

I've had many occasions to test that theory when my old SVT would throw a tube. My Heritage has been solid for 3 1/2 years but my 69 SVT has lost a few along the way. I'm certainly not going to insult anyone's intelligence by saying that micros aren't fully capable of delivering the goods on a gig. The times where I had to sub out a micro, it sounded pretty great. Nobody felt cheated, I got a sound I liked, and everyone was happy. But you can totally tell the difference. Might be subtle enough to some where it wouldn't matter to them, but for me it's nearly impossible not to notice. So I'd have to disagree that it's all about the cabinet. It's also very much about the head.

On the bright side, those who say that's way more important to play righteously than to have top-notch gear that costs a few grand are correct.

There were areas in which the GK and my D-180 were notably different. Digging in, for instance, didn't produce the same feel at all. The tube head also took pedals better.

The overall sound was quite similar, but the feel was a bit different.