Not true. I have a Genz Benz ShuttleMax 12.2. It has onboard HPF. I rarely use it. I'm glad it worked for you.
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Help with P Bass Tone
- Thread starter GalardiGrooves
- Start date
Go back to basics and start again.
Bass > amp > cab.
Instrument volume and tone fully open.
Amp set to flat (12 noon isn't always flat on some amps) check user manual for these settings.
If somehow you are still to muddy, boomy, turn down lows and low mids on the amp.
It's tempting to add highs and mids to compensate but removing the offending areas should be tried first.
I'm a firm adherent of utilising bare minimum to sound good.
If I have to add multiple gadgets between my bass and amp to sound normal, then that rig will not get my tick of approval.
Bass > amp > cab.
Instrument volume and tone fully open.
Amp set to flat (12 noon isn't always flat on some amps) check user manual for these settings.
If somehow you are still to muddy, boomy, turn down lows and low mids on the amp.
It's tempting to add highs and mids to compensate but removing the offending areas should be tried first.
I'm a firm adherent of utilising bare minimum to sound good.
If I have to add multiple gadgets between my bass and amp to sound normal, then that rig will not get my tick of approval.
Kinda reluctant to weigh in here, since this could be a lot of things and everyone has their favorite way to make a P-bass sound good. Lacking any further info on your strings and settings on your gizmos, I think perhaps your Spark Boost isn't doing you any favors and you have your compression setting wrong. Also, perhaps you just have too much low/mids in your EQ? BassBuzz has a good video about "Why does my Bass tone Suck" on You tube, where he goes into the "Seven Dwarves of Bad Bass Tone." Sounds like you got visited by "Muddy" and "Boomy?" Anyway, there is no reason for a P-Bass to sound muddy, it has excellent resolution, if you use it, and don't abuse it. Don't just run to a J-Bass for salvation.
Hey, I love my J bass, but I love my P just as much, maybe more. There's a reason they sold so many.
Bass-to-amp.
Set every knob on amp to the middle.
If your bass is passive, turn the tone knob all the way to treble (no cut).
Play.
It will sound clacky and shrill when you play by yourself, but it will sound great in the mix and the sound guy will be able to back off the highs himself if its too much on the floor.
Your bass should go bam bam bam not boom boom boom.
Set every knob on amp to the middle.
If your bass is passive, turn the tone knob all the way to treble (no cut).
Play.
It will sound clacky and shrill when you play by yourself, but it will sound great in the mix and the sound guy will be able to back off the highs himself if its too much on the floor.
Your bass should go bam bam bam not boom boom boom.
The bass knob on your amp and an adjustable HPF are two quite different animals.
It probably has one, but typically they're fixed at anything between 25-40Hz. In order for an HPF to be useful in the kind of situation we have here, we're going to be turning it up to 60-80Hz easily.
"A LOT of low end" is something I've never gone for as a bass player and nobody's ever told me to add any or complained about my sound. It simply muddies the sound for everyone, and makes my playing and particularly articulation, indistinct. Psychologically, people seem to equate boomy (which I think it what you're talking about) with being too loud, even if somehow the actual volume isn't too loud, and that's a difficult perception to overcome.
My first thought is what is the PA/Sound support aspect (unmentioned), and the root of the problem might actually be THERE, and have little to do with your actual tone or how loud your stage volume is, using your amp as a stage monitor. Of course, if there's no PA support for bass, then that's a whole different situation.
Whatever your signal chain, the settings on the amp, or EQ pedal or whatever could alone have huge (and in this case negative) impact on your tone, not only item by item, but in aggregate and as a whole. There's a WHOLE LOT of sound processing going on there! Holy cow! I'll bet your devices are possibly or likely even "fighting themselves" in the signal chain. Even the room itself and where the amp is and what kind of stage it's placed on can have a HUGE impact on tone, clarity, low end, etc... I hate playing on elevated, hollow stages- that alone creates a "bass trap" boomy effect that is VERY difficult with any amount of signal processing to dial out or dial down, because it's not about YOUR sound... it's about ACOUSTICS of a PLACE. An empty soundchecking room sounds very different from a full one. Don't forget these things.
Ultimately, I'd pare back to: Bass to (maybe) wireless if you absolutely use its ability to roam and hence entertain, then to amp, AND NOTHING ELSE. Eliminate excess and variables. Focus in on getting good, balanced, clear tones with ONE bass and ONE amp as your constant, which better equips you to deal with the variables of different venues and the unique sonic aspects that every one of those places presents. And you get to know your gear better. Build that knowledge base of this small signal chain with these fundamental pieces of equipment, aka with the LEAST amount of gear- Don't add ANY additional gear if it detracts from or makes it harder to get good, fundamental tones. I suspect once you do this, you'll become fairly more hesitant to add ANY additional tone shaping things in the signal chain that will compromise this.
Lastly, think about a Telephone or cell phone. It doesn't have a huge speaker in the earpiece, or really anywhere. It's a very small driver. Yet... when we talk on the phone and listen on the phone, not only do we know a male's voice when we hear it, we can tell if it's a higher or lower one. The brain "fills in" frequencies and makes it sound natural and right. I'm not saying take the stage with a 5 watt Silverface Fender Champ as your bass amp, as if low end doesn't matter and the audience will just magically "imagine" all the low end. I'm simply saying that often the low end of a bass amp is quite full and perceived fully as listeners in ways it may not be perceived as a player. What sounds "right" for the sound and for the mix and the audience may, soled (or in context) be less "bassy" and may actually sound thinner than what you thought it should be.
Thoughts from the gigging trenches for 30+ years... Hope this helps.
Similar sorts of lessons for those who play drums and piano.
What the drummer hears on his throne is often not what the audience hears, but drummers want to sound good to themselves and will spend countless hours and dollars on instrument hardware to get sounds they love... even if it doesn't make it off the stage. (Which some never realize.) And sometimes someone has to tell the drummer that the sound they love isn't meshing with the rest of the band on stage either.
And if you love acoustic piano one of the things you learned to love about it is the vibratory feedback when you play... which makes it at first disorienting, then annoying, when using a stationary and still digital piano (which probably sounds better to the audience than the acoustic practice piano the musician would prefer using).
Too fat, too muddy, & too much bottom end? Sounds like you have achieved a common target tone for many…
I agree with this line of thought. Your set-up could be thinned down a bit.
I would go with the amp & cab first and see if you get what you’re looking for. If you’d really prefer to use the Tech 21 VT Bass Deluxe, it’s going require some discipline on your part.
Plug your Tech 21 output into the active input of your Hartke and set all of the tone controls to ‘0’ or “5”, your choice. The reason I added “5” is that some amps don’t produce much sound without the tone controls turned up a bit. You will need to adjust the output of your VT and the volume of your Hartke to get a clean sound, and will probably be a little weaker signal coming from your VT and then regulate the volume on your Hartke.
You may want to look at your owners manual of the VT. If I recall correctly, it has recommended set-up starting points and how to run it to get a clean sound in many scenarios.
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Are you playing with FOH support? If so, a talk with the sound man might be a good idea. One thing I can assure as a long time PB player, your problem is not your bass unless it’s broken.
Further, I have no idea what room you were playing in, or the type of music you play so at best I can only offer is my guess. You have an EQ issue. From what I can see is you have 3 units in your signal chain that can effect your EQ, 4 if you include your bass. That make sorting things out more difficult From here.
OK, I’m thinking the first thing is to set everything EQ wise to “flat”. Then boost frequency at about 165hz roll of some treble and add a little bass if it feels empty. See if that helps.
Don't know if it was mentioned, but for boomy rooms (feedback from people would be as you describe) sometimes the easiest adjustment is to have a HPF an raise the cut-off until it sounds right out front.
You should get a long cord or wireless where you can go out and hear yourself during sound check from spectator positions.
You should get a long cord or wireless where you can go out and hear yourself during sound check from spectator positions.
FYI, the ShuttleMax 12.2 has a built-in non-adjustable HPF. There is a low frequency boost that can adjust from 35-65Hz by up to +7dB. The HPF is below that frequency range.
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“Too muddy” could be bad, but there’s nothing wrong with “too fat” and “with a lot of bottom end” 
Great thread, laughing heaps!
I thought P basses were sure-fire?
Seriously though, maybe they're just telling you there's "too much bass"? Too loud, too dominating etc. Your P bass into that amp and bit of knob twiddling should do the trick. Compression might just be letting you take up all the space, and your fuel mix sounds quite rich in that chain.
Agree about keeping some treble in as a rule, it converts to definition in the mix.
As an aside, I've heard a few cover bands lately where every player tries to be in your face the whole time with their "toan". It makes it heavy going for the audience when there's no space or restraint. Wedding bandy. Not saying that's the OP's issue, but sometimes more is too much.
I thought P basses were sure-fire?
Seriously though, maybe they're just telling you there's "too much bass"? Too loud, too dominating etc. Your P bass into that amp and bit of knob twiddling should do the trick. Compression might just be letting you take up all the space, and your fuel mix sounds quite rich in that chain.
Agree about keeping some treble in as a rule, it converts to definition in the mix.
As an aside, I've heard a few cover bands lately where every player tries to be in your face the whole time with their "toan". It makes it heavy going for the audience when there's no space or restraint. Wedding bandy. Not saying that's the OP's issue, but sometimes more is too much.
When there is already obviously too much stuff in your chain, suggestions to add ANOTHER stuff is just hilarious.
As other suggested. Start with bass into amp (maybe with compressor, if you really feel urgent to use one), and then try to FIX issues which you would have.
And about "A LOT of bottom end" state, it's 100% valid. It's like guitarists who play endless noodling solo because "which is what I thought is what we go for"
As other suggested. Start with bass into amp (maybe with compressor, if you really feel urgent to use one), and then try to FIX issues which you would have.
And about "A LOT of bottom end" state, it's 100% valid. It's like guitarists who play endless noodling solo because "which is what I thought is what we go for"
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