High mass vs low mass bridge

[GretschWretch]

Hi, my name is Bent, and I endorse bent plates

Show us your license tags.

 

[MtManiac]

I'll take the high mass lite model.

Hmmm… what about the “Highest Mass Bridge”? Built from whatever black holes are made of?

We can give it a real metal name too, the “Black Mass Bridge.”

 

[GretschWretch]

Hi folks

I don't know how many old Fenders were mutilated (rooted) for a Badass(I) bridge,

that wasn't designed to be put on Fenders. (too high => rooting was necessary)

Thousands or tens of thousands? Of course all those bad sounding bent plates went into the garbage can.


If only half of these basses were all original before the mod,

it is still the biggest mass destruction (or high mass destruction? ) of resale value ever achieved!


But that's not a biggy, because all those basses sound so much better than they did before!

They (at least some of them) sound more expensive!

When most of these mods were done, resale value was a pittance of what it is today. Not even a concern.

Wise(b)ass

 

[MarshallAC50Stack]

I used to be of the opinion that it didn't matter. Then I replaced my Ric bridge with a Hipshot (brass/heavy) bridge. I didn't give it any thought as I was so concerned about getting the hole drilling correct. And I didn't expect any change in tone. But from the very first time I played it I knew something was different. I kept looking at the string heights but they were the same. Everything was the same except for the new bridge. It was deeper, more sustain, it just wasn't the same as before. Call it what ya wanna but that's what happened. Yep.... surprised me too.

The main thing I noticed after installing a Hipshot on my Rickenbacker 4003 is that the G string kept flipping out of place and by the end of the first set I had to raise all the strings because the bridge pieces had all rattled to the bottom of the plate. I took that bridge off, put the original back on and it has been fine ever since.

As for other mods, I replaced the standard J bass pickups on my c.1993 American Standard Jazz Five passive (inline tuners) with Bill Lawrence designed Fender Mod Squad scn stacked humbuckers. They sound great and there is absolutely no hum.

 

[Wisebass]

"When most of these mods were done, resale value was a pittance of what it is today. Not even a concern"

That is true! In the 80s it was just an old bass vs an old modded bass with a new hole in it.

But today it makes a huge difference! Especially when the bass is from the 60s.

 

[bassdude51]

Generally speaking, the bass guitar is not a lead instrument in a musical band. Generally speaking, the audience's ears are not centered on just the bass player. Doubtfully, anyone in the audience listening to a band is gonna say, "Oh wow!" "That high mass bass bridge is giving such an awesome sound!"....or....."Oh, the bass' bent plate bridge sounds soooooo excellent!"

If there is any difference in sound between a bent plate or high mass, if there is, it ain't very much!

IMO in this day and age of, "how much does it weigh?" in reference to the weight of a bass guitar, a high mass bridge will make your bass weigh more! Perhaps as much as 4oz to 6oz more compared to a bent plate.

Bottom line, if one feels a high mass bridge will make his/her bass sound better...............get one!

 

[DonaldR]

I installed that Wilkinson bridge on my Jazz 5-string bass, it made a huge difference ... in the look:

But seriously the sound changed a tiny bit compared to the original, might be the metal used for the baseplate or the brass saddles, I don't know. Changing the bridge "might" have an impact to the sound as much as changing tuners.

 

[Killing Floor]

The ability to hear a difference in a blind test and pick which is which is the real question though. Then the next logical step is hearing it in a mix. Because physics is a thing of course, but the question here, and with the tonewood debates etc....is whether the difference is discernable. Extreme example is if you are playing along and a fly lands on your headstock, things have changed and the tone is impacted. But we'd all agree nobody could hear the difference. I did the same test a couple years ago and was biased going in. My roadworn P with the thin bent bridge was great, but I was 100% sure it would have even more sustain and have a better sound with a high mass bridge. So I bought 3 different ones and swapped them in and out and could hear no difference, even though I was 100% sure I would. I get it, just looking at them it seems obvious there would be a big difference in sound because they have like 3x the mass of the fender bent plate. No doubt the physics is different, but I couldn't hear it in my quiet music room, so no way would it make a difference in a real musical situation. And like I said, there was no question in my mind going in that I would get a different tone with a high mass. So the reality that it didn't change the tone in a way I could hear overcame a pretty significant bias I had going in.

Bass paid for my mechanical engineering degree. I am super happy to prattle on about vibrations. The tone we hear through our amplifier is the flux from metallic strings vibrating within a magnetic field. The forces that oppose that string can only transition to the neck/body via the bridge, fret, and nut. That’s it. And electromagnetic pickups don’t sense anything except flux.

From a mechanical perspective the hardware and body/neck material absolutely affect how the string is dampened. Newton settled that. Piezoelectric pickups can sense those internal forces better because that is a pressure transducer.
Ultimately every variable contributes to the decay of string vibrations. But the far majority of our tone perception regarding hardware and materials on the Newtonian opposite of the “sensed” string” is measurement with our eyes.

 

[JakobT]

Bass paid for my mechanical engineering degree. I am super happy to prattle on about vibrations. The tone we hear through our amplifier is the flux from metallic strings vibrating within a magnetic field. The forces that oppose that string can only transition to the neck/body via the bridge, fret, and nut. That’s it. And electromagnetic pickups don’t sense anything except flux.

From a mechanical perspective the hardware and body/neck material absolutely affect how the string is dampened. Newton settled that. Piezoelectric pickups can sense those internal forces better because that is a pressure transducer.
Ultimately every variable contributes to the decay of string vibrations. But the far majority of our tone perception regarding hardware and materials on the Newtonian opposite of the “sensed” string” is measurement with our eyes.

Interestingly, I’ve never found a hi-mass bridge to have a significant impact on my tone, but I have managed to use hi-mass bridges to move/mitigate dead spots on two of my basses. Granted, they were mild dead spots, but by installing a hi-mass bridge I managed to competely eliminate a dead spot on one bass (or at least move it off the fretboard), and reduce one on the other to the point where it was no longer noticeable unless you know exactly what to listen for.

 

[Killing Floor]

Interestingly, I’ve never found a hi-mass bridge to have a significant impact on my tone, but I have managed to use hi-mass bridges to move/mitigate dead spots on two of my basses. Granted, they were mild dead spots, but by installing a hi-mass bridge I managed to competely eliminate a dead spot on one bass (or at least move it off the fretboard), and reduce one on the other to the point where it was no longer noticeable unless you know exactly what to listen for.

That’s another mega thread.
Every object has a resonant frequency and therefore, every instrument has dead spots. But if you can change that frequency by altering the mass of the bass such that the resonant frequencies don’t coincide with a tuned, fretted note for all practical purposes you have eliminated it. Good move. My fretlesses and my violin I have just learned where they are and changed my technique.

 

[JRA]

i use both/all kinds of bridges and i like 'em all! i try to choose a bridge based on its feature set and its potential usefulness for a particular DIY ax. some bridges have helped me compensate when marrying parts to one another (e.g., bodies and necks).

i've learned to disregard the traditional hype about any of them. all of them sound good, IME/IMO.

Companies are really missing out on the money mountain that would come with the development & manufacturing of Medium Mass bridges. And yes, they can have this idea for free. Just remember- you saw it here first, folks!

 

[funkinbottom]

I fly my bridges at half mass, in honor to all those who have fallen in the high mass/low mass debate. My condolences to all. May you find your density.

 

[GretschWretch]

I have always had the impression that whether a bridge is high-mass or low-mass depends on the amount of traffic crossing it at a given time. During rush hour bridges tend to be high-mass more than at any other time.

 

[Laurent]

I went through a phase of bridge testing:

Hipshot KickAss 9 oz.
Fender High mass modern 6 oz.
Fender vintage style 3 oz.

The Hipshot KickAss is an amazing piece of engineering and manufacturing. I loved the object but did not like the tone. I found it gave me too much sustain.
The Fender High mass was OK but I preferred the tone of the metal vintage style bridge with the groove straddles. It's the lightest, the least expensive bridge of that group and it yield the tone I like.

Just like neck wood or instrument weight, it's a matter of personal preference/taste and as musicians we should be thankful to have all these options.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Have to respectfully disagree. I’ve installed and used: Badass, Badass II, Babicz, Gotoh, Fender and a few other high mass bridges. And I did see.

It had zero affect on tone.

Just out of curiosity, what experimental design did you use for your own testing? All the genuinely scientific studies I’m aware of agree with my own purely subjective conclusion after using my ears. Which is to say it made no difference.

I went as far as recording before and after - no difference. But for the odd times I use palm muting, they are more comfortable than BPOT.

 

[40Hz]

I went as far as recording before and after - no difference. But for the odd times I use palm muting, they are more comfortable than BPOT.

I agree!

There are a few genuine reasons why it might benefit you to get a beefier bridge. But improving your tone isn’t one of them.

 

[FenderP]

High mass bridges are on all of my basses but it's not really about tone. Maybe it does make a difference, but for me it's about how things feel when I play. Any time I've had the standard Fender style bridge or even something different (like RA's standard bride that was on my original Deep 4), something is just ... off.

YMMV and all standard disclaimers apply

 

[pbass2]

Two things I've learned...
1) Many people will tell you not to buy a high-mass bridge.
2) Some people don't listen to what many people say.

IK, it does work, but I find it little more finicky for example getting my preferred foam into my Badass bridge bass than into my basses with a regular 'ol Fender style, as far as getting it shoved up against the saddles the way I like. Not a biggee by any means though.

 

[jd56hawk]

IK, it does work, but I find it little more finicky for example getting my preferred foam into my Badass bridge bass than into my basses with a regular 'ol Fender style, as far as getting it shoved up against the saddles the way I like. Not a biggee by any means though.

I know what you mean.
The T-40 is thinner foam, 1/2 inch instead of 3/4. Just happened to have it lying around, just happened to fit in the bridge.
Bit of luck.

 

[HardNHeavy]

couple of mine, HM bridges just seem to work well on some more than others, ya never know till you try things out and listen/feel.

sorry for the blur, again my cheap arse phone