History lesson - Thunderfunk/SWR/Eden, etc.

[DAcat]

gee where did this old thread come from?

dug up from pretty deep i see.

anyhow, i accept full responsibility for any errors or omissions in my original posting.

as a side note, commercial users, just remember not to bash the competition (no matter how nicely) in the context of this thread (or any other).

Finally, i promised not to go into the bergantino/epifani thing, so i won't. Suffice it to say that it's far more complex and debated than the current topic. Some things are better left untouched as they only bring up bad blood, and will probably never be fully unraveled.

Thanks for the interesting history lesson ...I think Russ Allee has been referred to as the grandfather of modern bass amplification...What he started at Acoustic,then AMP,then SWR and currently Eden Electronics...not to mention the side-effect on the GH420 and later Thunderfunk amps...its easy to see why he is the "Grandfather" ....and it all started with Acoustic . As an Acoustic 360/361 owner since 1970, I wish he'd bring those amps back to the modern age....Peace...DAcat

 

[Johnny Mac]

One other thing I forgot to ask/mention was wasn't Hartke somehow thrown in that big mix of builders somewhere? I thought he had something to do with Acoustic or something somehow in the SWR saga?

Someone answer this person's question.

EDIT: Holy crap, I just realized how old this thread is.

 

[Phantasm]

Someone answer this person's question.

EDIT: Holy crap, I just realized how old this thread is.

Yep, it's old, but I'd like to know the answer too!

 

[Vic]

One other thing I forgot to ask/mention was wasn't Hartke somehow thrown in that big mix of builders somewhere? I thought he had something to do with Acoustic or something somehow in the SWR saga?

I've looked, and can't find a connection... what post led to this question?

 

[Thunderfunk]

I've looked, and can't find a connection... what post led to this question?

Jaco using Hartke speakers? Acoustic--> AMP--> Hartke?

 

[Vic]

Jaco using Hartke speakers? Acoustic--> AMP--> Hartke?

Yeah, I saw that, but the only thing I could find was that Jaco had Larry build him one or more cabs... I couldn't find anything linking Larry back up the AMP chain at all...

 

[Thor]

You can always call Larry and ask him, he published his
cell # in BP last year. On the back cover iirc.

 

[Chef]

funny, and tru.

 

[Joebone]

Call me silly, but I'm bumping one of the best Talkbass threads ever, IMHO...

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

As a footnote, I found an original SWR Goliath cab the other day in a pawnshop- with the backplate boasting of having Eden speakers. I didn't try it out, but it was smaller than other Goliaths I've seen and had a rear port, (and a big spider nest in the horn). That's funny because I thought Eden adopted the "David" (David Eden) moniker to show that they were going to slay the "Goliath."

 

[asad137]

As a footnote, I found an original SWR Goliath cab the other day in a pawnshop- with the backplate boasting of having Eden speakers. I didn't try it out, but it was smaller than other Goliaths I've seen and had a rear port, (and a big spider nest in the horn). That's funny because I thought Eden adopted the "David" (David Eden) moniker to show that they were going to slay the "Goliath."

PBG -- I think that jives with the general history. Eden initially made the speakers used in the Goliath, then later decided to create the David line. Just because the Goliath had Eden speakers doesn't mean they didn't think they could make a better cabinet (with the same speakers).

Asad

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

It had been a long time since I read this thread, and I just finished re-reading it. I remembered the details about the name thing wrong.

 

[jerry]

PBG -- I think that jives with the general history. Eden initially made the speakers used in the Goliath, then later decided to create the David line. Just because the Goliath had Eden speakers doesn't mean they didn't think they could make a better cabinet (with the same speakers).

Asad

Eden made the whole Goliath cabinet for SWR back in the day, I had one, they were great!

 

[Vic]

As a footnote, I found an original SWR Goliath cab the other day in a pawnshop- with the backplate boasting of having Eden speakers. I didn't try it out, but it was smaller than other Goliaths I've seen and had a rear port, (and a big spider nest in the horn). That's funny because I thought Eden adopted the "David" (David Eden) moniker to show that they were going to slay the "Goliath."

The David vs Goliath thing is absolutely true, tho his real first name is David as well.

However you (and lots of other folks) are a bit confused about the real naming... it's not (and never has been) "David Eden".

The company is Eden Electronics. It's the "David Series" of cabinets. I thought the Speakers just said Eden on them, but it's been a LONG time on that one... not sure.

So many people get confused by this, and even worse, when David Nordschow (his REAL name) did those signature amps, I think he actually signed them "David Eden" because of what folks typically thought. He also puts this in the manuals now: "David (Eden) Nordschow". IMHO a bad idea, but no biggie.

If you read the older badges carefully, it said:

David
(E)
by Eden

(look at the first page in this manual [Invalid or Expired Link Removed])

Now I think they just say Eden on the bottom, but the Nemesis products say Nemesis on the top, and I can guarantee you there's no such person as Nemesis Eden.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

However you (and lots of other folks) are a bit confused about the real naming... it's not (and never has been) "David Eden".

I never said that was the name of the president. I was talking about their cab series which started out as "David by Eden," but now are just "David Eden." I've spoken to David Nordschow personally; he's a nice guy.

 

[Vic]

I never said that was the name of the president. I was talking about their cab series which started out as "David by Eden," but now are just "David Eden." I've spoken to David Nordschow personally; he's a nice guy.

Nah, the point I was making is it's still the "David Series by Eden Electronics" they just took the little "by" off the tag like you said here. That's what I was getting at with the no such person as "Nemesis Eden" joke.

Also, not everything in my post was directed towards you specifically... no biggie... just tryin' to clarify for those who might need it. If that's not you, it's cool.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Yeah, I saw that, but the only thing I could find was that Jaco had Larry build him one or more cabs... I couldn't find anything linking Larry back up the AMP chain at all...

Not sure if Larry did it but I remember the AMP BH-420 being the recommended amp for the Guild/Hartke speakers. Several pros had that rig... I think there's at least one Miles Davis DVD out with Daryl Jones using it.

I got my first AMP BH-420 about 3-4 years after they went out of business. Found it (in like new condition) in a pawnshop for $150. About a month later I found a very clean Guild/Hartke 1-15 in another pawnshop for $150. A couple of weeks later I found a clean G/H 410 in yet another pawnshop. It was probably just meant to be.


Best $450 rig I ever came across

 

[Vic]

Not sure if Larry did it but I remember the AMP BH-420 being the recommended amp for the Guild/Hartke speakers. Several pros had that rig... I think there's at least one Miles Davis DVD out with Daryl Jones using it.

I got my first AMP BH-420 about 3-4 years after they went out of business. Found it (in like new condition) in a pawnshop for $150. About a month later I found a very clean Guild/Hartke 1-15 in another pawnshop for $150. A couple of weeks later I found a clean G/H 410 in yet another pawnshop. It was probably just meant to be.


Best $450 rig I ever came across

LOL! That is too cool.

 

[conebeckham]

Back in 1987 or 88, I sold my Peavey Combo Amp (TNT 130, I think) and bought an AMP BH 260, along with a Hartke 410 cab. Sounded great! Then, I moved to SF, took the amp head with me, and sold the cabs...and bought new Hartke cabs--the transporter line-a 410 and a 115. For some reason, things weren't sounding good...( I now believe it was the cheaper Hartke Cabs, which weren't efficient at all, but anyway......) .so I got a Demeter Tube Pre, and started using that, with the AMP as a power amp. Seemed to be about the same, but my soundman liked it, and ran DI out the back of the Demeter.

Band broke up, flash forward about 1o years, after a long spell of not playing....I had sold the cabs, but kept the other stuff....and then I bought an Eden 210XLT. Played through that, with the Demeter/AMP set up, also with A TC Electronics Pre/PArametric...until just recently, when I disconnected the Demeter (Lugging the rack around was too much, esp. for small gigs, I figured) and un-racked the AMP head.

Now I'm using the BH-260 through the Eden Cab, and I'm kicking myself for missing that great sound that's been there forever.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Demeter...but I find the response and tone shaping, and also the ease of one head, with the AMP to be revitalizing.

This thread was great, and I had no idea that three of my pieces of equipment came from such a tight little family history......

Future plan is to get a big ol' Power Amp, to run the Demeter through, and another cab, for when I need more power. but for now, I'm happy.....

 

[link wray]

I read this thread and found it so interesting that i wanted to dig a little deeper. It seems that the Acoustic 360 preamp was the beginning of this story. The EQ section of the 360 was inspired by a Pultec design. That EQ is no longer made, but Manley does make a modern version: Invalid Link Removed
It seems the secret behind that great bass sound is to simultaniously boost and cut the bass with filters wich have different Q. Specifically the boost having a steeper Q than the cut. The two different curves combine and do the magic behind the contour/enhance/whateveryoucallit knob.