Honest opinions please... A rant.. Kinda...

[DrayMiles]

Do people do what the guy in the movie did in real life?
I haven't seen the movie. When I was told about the demeaning nature, I really had no desire.
Maybe I am old, but where I grew up if you did that to someone you would probably end up in a shallow grave.
I really hope people aren't treated that way in real life.

I have been through that onstage and in lessons... Many times over...
Everything from a rant at the Royal College of Music to a deathly stare...

Oh, ftr... I mentioned the RCM because I thought it was interesting that the hardest butt chewing I got was from a classical musician, and the most brutal 'silent' grilling I got was from the Jazz musos. The Jazzers usually taught you a lesson onstage that carried more weight imo... The duality intrigued me...

 

[DrayMiles]

It reads like they were asking for rehearsal time. Not everyone (non-pros) can pick-up tunes without that. They asked for what they needed to be prepared and you snubbed it.

If you cant handle playing with people like that - then don't. That's on you. They might be great when given the right rehearsals. I myself find it opens up different creative doors.

Also, the audience knows when the players are friends/friendly and they prefer it.

D

Umm... I suggested rehearsal time and he cut it down to one day for two hours... I was annoyed considering I had to watch this guy struggling to read A standard out of the real book.
He was trying to skimp on paying money, because he accidentally messengered his usual pianist.. Then explained he didn’t want piano on the gig. The guy owns a software company??!!! So, I took my bread and paid the singer. It was for a charity that puts instruments in schools I think...
I wasn’t going to lead it, but I felt obligated... And I liked having a pianist that didn’t play roots in the left hand...

 

[trickyric]

I have been through that onstage and in lessons... Many times over...
Everything from a rant at the Royal College of Music to a deathly stare...

I guess this is why I am not a professional musician. I would have destroyed someone trying that kind thing on me... I guess I wouldn't have lasted long.

 

[Benjamin Earl]

In the end... I was in charge. I even took a pay cut to pay the other two. They only let me get away with that because they knew me I believe...

I think I understand, and I feel you. You booked a gig, and your reputation is on the line. You are prepared because you respect your craft and your band mates time. You treat the gig like you would any job. Sometimes it hard to work with friends or acquaintances. They may not have the same work ethic or priorities. They may think, 'bands should be fun, not work'. Any other employer would have given this 'worker' a warning, or they would have fired the worker. Feelings often get involved when you work with friends or acquaintances. It sucks, but this is a job and everyone needs to treat it that way. You're the boss and he is the employee. With that in mind and all due respect, it isn't ethical to swear in an employee reprimand. I've been in your place many times. I've done the same thing. In retrospect, I learned it is better to just fire the musician (if I am in charge) or quit (if I am not in charge). Sometimes it saves friendships, sometimes it doesn't. I definitely feel better about it.

 

[DrayMiles]

I think I understand, and I feel you. You booked a gig, and your reputation is on the line. You are prepared because you respect your craft and your band mates time. You treat the gig like you would any job. Sometimes it hard to work with friends or acquaintances. They may not have the same work ethic or priorities. They may think, 'bands should be fun, not work'. Any other employer would have given this 'worker' a warning, or they would have fired the worker. Feelings often get involved when you work with friends or acquaintances. It sucks, but this is a job and everyone needs to treat it that way. You're the boss and he is the employee. With that in mind and all due respect, it isn't ethical to swear in an employee reprimand. I've been in your place many times. I've done the same thing. In retrospect, I learned it is better to just fire the musician (if I am in charge) or quit (if I am not in charge). Sometimes it saves friendships, sometimes it doesn't. I definitely feel better about it.

I agree...
Hmm... I have to comment on 'music should be fun...'
You're spot on! I guess that's the disconnect also. I feel that if the band is rehearsed and have a plan, that the gig will be fun. Some of them extend the fun to rehearsals and forget that it's still work. You don't have to be a great musician, but you should be a great band giving a great performance...

 

[marcwhy]

This is a long thread already (so this was probably asked) -- The bigger question for me is: Why are you playing a seemingly important gig with "amateurs?" Few actual pros are gigging these days -- call them!!

 

[DrayMiles]

I guess this is why I am not a professional musician. I would have destroyed someone trying that kind thing on me... I guess I wouldn't have lasted long.

My last deathly stare ... I remember it well. Chicago's Rib Shack in Kensington London, playing behind Jocelyn Brown. The Saxophonist/Keyboard player was Ray Gaskins I think... Considering I showed up with no rehearsals and had never heard of her, I did ok... But Ray was throwing shade at any wrong note... Now, I know 'Somebody else's guy' was a hit... But, at the time... I'm like who?

 

[DrayMiles]

This is a long thread already (so this was probably asked) -- The bigger question for me is: Why are you playing a seemingly important gig with "amateurs?" Few actual pros are gigging these days -- call them!!

I didn't book it...

 

[DrayMiles]

This is a long thread already (so this was probably asked) -- The bigger question for me is: Why are you playing a seemingly important gig with "amateurs?" Few actual pros are gigging these days -- call them!!

Umm... They were friends and actually knew the deceased wife. So, I thought that after 5 years of going to their gigs and cheering them on, I'd do it...

 

[DWBass]

... Now, I know 'Somebody else's guy' was a hit... But, at the time... I'm like who?

I'm pulling your Funk Card!! LOL

 

[Benjamin Earl]

I agree...
Hmm... I have to comment on 'music should be fun...'
You're spot on! I guess that's the disconnect also. I feel that if the band is rehearsed and have a plan, that the gig will be fun. Some of them extend the fun to rehearsals and forget that it's still work. You don't have to be a great musician, but you should be a great band giving a great performance...

Work can be fun. I wish my day job was as fun as my gigs! I agree gigs are often fun jobs, especially when you feel confident because you trust the musicianship and rehearsals of the band. A lot of musicians (or dudes with instruments) think that playing music is fun so it isn't work. Unfortunately, this causes them not to treat it like a job, and they show up late and/or unprepared. Nevertheless, the French embassy has employed you to perform and you will get paid. Just like anything else you pay for, the customer expects a quality product for their money. I wish all musicians understood that gigs are jobs if you are getting paid. If they only want to have fun, then they should only play in situations with no expectations. Stay in the basement/practice space or play fun gigs for free, because they are employees as soon as someone hires the band.

 

[2112]

I put stuff like this through two filters:

1. Be a professional.
2. Do the right thing.

Your response fails both. Yes, absolutely be clear about the issues, but do so in a manner that doesn't burn bridges or levy personal attacks. It may feel good to you right now to give'em both barrels, but it serves nobody in the long run.

In your own profile you posted:

“Marketing is so powerful that it can make even an extremely untalented musician a one-hundred-hits wonder.” ― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

When you cast yourself as a professional, you are marketing yourself as such. Strive to be that 100-hits wonder in all facets all the time. Even when tempted to grab a quick feel-good at the expense of others in a less-than ideal situation. Don't ruin your reputation. Sometimes even musicians have to control their emotions.

 

[DrayMiles]

Hmm... Well, I didn't expect this to be so educational! Thanks Again...

I've learned to be more (ahem) 'subtle' in emails.

I've learned that I come across as an egotist spewing out names of past accomplishments.

I've learned that I would have my @@@@ kicked talking to some TB members!

And I've learned that I might be a nice guy that needs a proof reader!

I'll get back to ya'll folkses after I remove my thumb ... or pull on both ears for the thunderous pop!

 

[Diver]

too mean, even for guitarist, or the French embassy.
That's a break up letter, not something that will make any of the parties involved want to give you a call back, so if the goal was to have him get back to you positively or gtfo, we already know what he/they will chose.
I would assume that someone with your experience should know that playing in bands requires technical, but also people skills. If you really want them to improve and to come back to you, you don't call the fact that you are a top player, but that instead, your experience with professionals showed you how to respect others, be on time, don't steal the show, etc... Or at least it should have.
To your point, you think they wouldn't have treated their "drummer's pro friends" the same way they did with you. I wonder why.

 

[marcwhy]

Umm... They were friends and actually knew the deceased wife. So, I thought that after 5 years of going to their gigs and cheering them on, I'd do it...

Again, very long thread, and none of this was mentioned in the OP ...

 

[DrayMiles]

too mean, even for guitarist, or the French embassy.
That's a break up letter, not something that will make any of the parties involved want to give you a call back, so if the goal was to have him get back to you positively or gtfo, we already know what he/they will chose.
I would assume that someone with your experience should know that playing in bands requires technical, but also people skills. If you really want them to improve and to come back to you, you don't call the fact that you are a top player, but that instead, your experience with professionals showed you how to respect others, be on time, don't steal the show, etc... Or at least it should have.
To your point, you think they wouldn't have treated their "drummer's pro friends" the same way they did with you. I wonder why.

Because those pro friends were backing a famous guitarist back in the day. And he's somewhat starstruck over the association I think...

 

[DrayMiles]

Again, very long thread, and none of this was mentioned in the OP ...

I use the word friends very loosely...

 

[kevindahl]

Thank you for sharing your story. You've posted some very personal info. I am truly sorry for yout recent trauma.

Most of us have lost it more than once in our lives. I totally understand your relationship with music and your well being. Negative experiences totally destroy my soul.

Others have given great feedback. I dont have much to say other than it's ironic that we can treat others badly like we have been treated horribly. Life is way too short to be playing leaders like Buddy Rich.

Take care.

 

[CoffeeLove]

Was his lack of preparedness bad, yes. However, IMHO, the tone of the email was harsh, and I would probably not play with you again, and I am type A and always prepared. Despite how bad a situation is with an other human being, aggressive tone harms relationship and hurts feelings. So despite your good intentions and desire for people to do what they are supposed to, this is not the best way to address him. If this person is a friend, and not just business, I would definitely call him and talk it out, regardless of whether he continues with the project. Best wishes

 

[LBS-bass]

I guess this is why I am not a professional musician. I would have destroyed someone trying that kind thing on me... I guess I wouldn't have lasted long.

It's not all like that. Here's the deal. There are people who are abusive and there are people who put up with it because, for whatever reason, they've decided it's acceptable behavior.

Then there are the rest of us. Most of us won't stay in that sort of thing but those who do think it's normal, or maybe the only way they can put food on the table.