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House Soundman Outed by Digital Technology

#22
MNAirHead said:
The biggest lesson giggling lesson I can remember is about casinos..

Their job is to keep patrons at slot machines and tables -- not listening to bands.

Heck.. they may have a formula down that keeps patrons walking through....

They may have not wanted you guys danceable...
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Heh heh... funny thing is, the first night (when there was bass in the mix, albeit not real defined), there were about 100 people in the room for a lot of the night, people coming in and out and the dance floor was hoppin all night. Second night, with all the bass and kick pulled out of the mix, maybe 25 people in the place (all old), no dancing and almost a totally empty room from about 11 o'clock onward. Coincidence?

I guess our band just doesn't have the right mindset to do casino gigs but thankfully we don't have any more of them on the books and we've got plenty of other people waiting to book us who are totally fine with us doing what we do.
 
#23
I've done some casino gigs that were just the opposite in terms of sound; pro soundman using the latest Yamaha M7CL/iPad tech to get great stage sound and just as good house sound. I don't particularly like casino gigs for other reasons, but the sound has been good so far. My avatar is after just such a gig - we're behind the bar on a stage that rises up over the bar.

As for churches and casinos... my church has an M7CL-48 and a professional soundman with major touring credits behind him. Our sound is about as good as it gets - easily on par with the best venues I've played.
 
#24
HolmeBass said:
But if that doesn't fit your band's desire for how they want to sound, why shouldn't said sound engineer swallow their pride and mix you the way you want to sound? The corollary to this is the "every band gets the same mix, regardless of genre or style" that I so often hear from less-skilled sound engineers.
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I don't understand why a sound man needs to swallow his pride to mix you the way you want to sound. I'm in the camp that says that's their job. If they want total control they should be DJ's.

I've work hard to develop my sound and I work hard with bands to create a sound. I think the sound man should convey that to they audience, not filter my sound through his lens.
 
#25
jaywa said:
It was a really weird deal. The house sound guy was nice and really helpful when we were setting up, etc., but then as soon as we got through soundcheck the first night, the first thing he said was "the drummer's too loud" and then he said "the guitarist needs to turn down" so things between him and the band got a little off on the wrong foot there. And then the second night as soon as I came in the room he said "there was too much low end last night, can you roll off your lows?" This from my 150-watt combo with a single 12-inch speaker, turned up to no more than 10 o'clock master volume. Seriously? Oh well... I still got paid even if nobody heard me.
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That is ridiculous. They need to hire different kinds of acts if that's where they're coming from. I mean that is preposterous- it literally does mean if people can hear your bass at all you're too loud. Whether soundman's or venue's fault - I'm betting venue now that I've heard more - they need to figure out what they really want and hire that instead. Sounds like muzak with some folks lip-synching on stage is just about their speed.
 
#26
One more point though - I've worked with some sound engineers that were just *amazing*, Usually you can tell when they're on point right from the get-go. You ask, "Is there too much bass on stage?" and they say, "No, sounds great." Anyone else in the band asks for something, they get it, right away. Then you listen to the board mix - sounds friggin' amazing. Your friends in the audience- same thing: "You guys really sounded great tonight!" "Good sound, everything came through great." The good ones make everyone happy and make it look easy, and that is no easy thing to do! So I do love some sound engineers I've worked with. Thankfully, more and more, these are the kinds of gigs I'm lucking in to.
 
#30
jaywa said:
LOL, I'm seeing the picture now...

Manager: "That band that was in here last night?"

Sound Guy: "Yeah?"

Manager: "They're too good. Tonight I need you to make them suck."

Sound Guy: "OK boss, no problem."

Manager: "That's my boy"
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I worked a casino on the Vegas strip where that was exactly the conversation between the manager and the sound man. We played the first week of a 4 week run and were playing to a full house every night,people were actually coming to see the band and staying all 3 set's and more importantly not getting up to gamble between set's

After the first week the artist and his manager had a meeting with the lounge manager and that night at the gig the volume in the house was so low we could hear people talking in the casino and that's where it stayed until the middle of the last set at 4:45 in the morning.

We were informed that our job was to distract and keep people in the casino but not away from gaming, It sucked but we reached a compromise with the sound guy that he would open it up for the last set
 
#34
Don't be "fixing" my words, guys. As far as you're concerned, they're written in stone. Nobody knows more about playing at a low and non-obnoxious volume than me, yet I always manage to be heard. And felt. If a soundman gives us a mix we don't like, I consider it insubordination regardless of who's paying.
 
#35
jaywa said:
LOL, I'm seeing the picture now...

Manager: "That band that was in here last night?"

Sound Guy: "Yeah?"

Manager: "They're OK -- turn them down.. Just Remember...... we're here fill slot machines - not sell music"

Sound Guy: "OK boss, no problem."

Manager: "That's my boy"
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Remember low end carries a far way through a casino -- IF a well setup IEM system was in place, you'd never know or care about this
 
#39
Vinny D said:
Most venues (and owners) don't care the least about this, they care about how busy there club is and.....it's their club.

It's your choice if you want to play there or not.

And by the way, I agree 100% with you that it sucks not being able to get the sound you want.
And if thats the sound the venue wants they should hire acoustic acts.
Which is why I said I often beg bands not to hire me at certain venues because all I do is get tortured all night from managment!
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^^^^What he says

Next time , bring your own soundman.

On your next show there , he's gonna have the owner/manager over his shoulder limiting his level or the low end content , then , since it's "your guy" and you paid him , you're gonna be able to fire him and hire another one who's gonna go through the exact same situation but you'll feel better 'cause your gonna be able to fire the guy. You can't fire the manager. :hyper:
 
#40
fokof said:
^^^^What he says

Next time , bring your own soundman.

On your next show there , he's gonna have the owner/manager over his shoulder limiting his level or the low end content , then , since it's "your guy" and you paid him , you're gonna be able to fire him and hire another one who's gonna go through the exact same situation but you'll feel better 'cause your gonna be able to fire the guy. You can't fire the manager. :hyper:
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Art vs commerce.

If you rebel like this the venue is going to fire you anyway. Why put yourself through this?

If you need the gig do it their way. If you don't need it, refuse further bookings there.
 

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