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House Soundman Outed by Digital Technology

#61
It wouldn't get any soundman fired to say that, but I would hope for his sake that he wouldn't say it in a way that makes management sound like douches.

Anyway, screw this nonsense of who pays the soundman having final say. I got totally screwed on my gig Saturday night by a soundman who decided doo wop music should have the exact same mix as a Snoop Dogg show. All the acts were complaining that I was too loud at rehearsal, and my amp was barely on, and when you said something to him about it, he'd cop a big attitude. His subs were insanely loud, and they sounded like crap in the house. I would roll lows off my rig, a PF350 and two SVT 210av cabs, which don't go that low in the first place, and he'd just add them back at the board. It got so bad that people in the audience were actually yelling at us to turn down during the first set. Not only that, but he tried to make me use a DI, which I politely refused to allow. Anyway, the sound improved greatly the second set because the person in charge told him to change the mix or else.

So keep quiet when I'm not paying the guy personally? My ass...he ruined half the show because I kept quiet.
 
#64
Our church and the sound team in the worship service and our casual venue are the best I've ever played with. They are the only guys I've used in-ears and didn't want to rip them out of my ears and scream. There is a time in all churches growth where they either buy into the idea of spending on the production or not...once we decided to spend on professionals, our user experience (and band experience) dramatically improved. Expensive but necessary for us at the time...
 
#67
JimmyM said:
Don't be "fixing" my words, guys. As far as you're concerned, they're written in stone. Nobody knows more about playing at a low and non-obnoxious volume than me, yet I always manage to be heard. And felt. If a soundman gives us a mix we don't like, I consider it insubordination regardless of who's paying.
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I mix for whoever hired me, and give that person (or those people) what they want. I don't care about anyone else's opinion. Even my own.

If I was just in it for the music, I'd be up on stage, not at FOH.
 
#70
MNAirHead said:
Jimmy nailed it.. the tone posted would make the casino appear in the wrong light.
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to who? The band?

Since when does the club give a damn what the band thinks? :/

Anyway, point taken, but if we assume a professional demeanor on the part of the house guy, I think my point still stands: a competent guy would alert the band to the restrictions he's under, so they would more likely cooperate than try to sneak back and change the mix themselves.
 
#71
MNAirHead said:
Casinos are a different animal
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Yeah this is really what it comes down to. Around here at least.

Just for interest I looked up some of the area casinos to see which bands they were hiring. Out of a couple dozen bands I recognized the name of ONE band. And I'm pretty well connected in my market.

Which tells me that there's a set of bands that specializes in casino gigs and a set of band that does the bar / street dance scene and very rarely is there crossover.
 
#72
KingRazor said:
I couldn't disagree with this more.

If you want that, have a robot mix your sound.
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I'm glad your experience with sound men has been better than mine, but if I could get a robot to mix my sound, I would.

If you would be OK with the sound man deciding what you sound like, that is your business but I'm interested in the band's vision for their sound, not the sound man's.

Forum rules prevent bashing of sound engineers, so I'll just say that I haven't had good experiences with them.
 
#73
FWIW, like I said on about 90% of our gigs we run our own sound from the stage, through our own P.A.

I am routinely louder in the mix by far than in any other band I've ever been in -- with the full knowledge and consent of everyone in the band including the BL who owns the gear -- and we never get complaints about our sound. In fact we often get compliments. Our BL tried once or twice before to hire a sound guy and he was so unhappy with them he fired them after one gig. His philosophy is why should we split our pay with someone whose ears aren't even as good as ours, and I wholeheartedly agree.

But as has been discussed at length here, this was different style of gig, with a different set of rules, and that is obviously not the sound they were looking for.
 
#74
lfmn16 said:
I'm glad your experience with sound men has been better than mine, but if I could get a robot to mix my sound, I would.

If you would be OK with the sound man deciding what you sound like, that is your business but I'm interested in the band's vision for their sound, not the sound man's.

Forum rules prevent bashing of sound engineers, so I'll just say that I haven't had good experiences with them.
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As a soundman myself, part of what I do is put my own "flavor" on whatever I'm mixing.

It's not only rare, but bad when two soundmen mix exactly the same way. Everyone will do it their own way.

Running the soundboard is just like playing an instrument and it's really boring if you just play one note all of the time. Get what I'm saying?

When I'm playing on stage though I don't even care about FOH sound, I'm way too focused on just playing my part right.
 
#75
KingRazor said:
As a soundman myself, part of what I do is put my own "flavor" on whatever I'm mixing.

It's not only rare, but bad when two soundmen mix exactly the same way. Everyone will do it their own way.

Running the soundboard is just like playing an instrument and it's really boring if you just play one note all of the time. Get what I'm saying?

When I'm playing on stage though I don't even care about FOH sound, I'm way too focused on just playing my part right.
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I don't want the sound man's "flavor" on my music and I don't care if he's bored, get what I'm saying?

I have put in a lot of time, effort and expense to produce a sound for my bass that I'm happy with. I work hard with every band I'm in to produce our own sound. I'm not interested in putting in all of that effort just to turn creative control over to someone else.

If you are happy to do that, it's none of my business, but for me the job of the sound man is to represent the band's vision for their sound, not him own.
 
#78
lfmn16 said:
I don't want the sound man's "flavor" on my music and I don't care if he's bored, get what I'm saying?

I have put in a lot of time, effort and expense to produce a sound for my bass that I'm happy with. I work hard with every band I'm in to produce our own sound. I'm not interested in putting in all of that effort just to turn creative control over to someone else.

If you are happy to do that, it's none of my business, but for me the job of the sound man is to represent the band's vision for their sound, not him own.
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Well, I can't say I know what'd be like to be in that situation.

When I mix, I have some pretty clear instructions about how it should sound, and I don't stray far from those.

But, being human, I have my own way of achieving that sound that will be different than how anyone else does it.

Of course, I don't really have a "vision" for the sound, I just try to make it sound "good". Remove any mud, make sure everything is clear without being harsh, and make sure the right instruments are at the right levels.
 
#80
lfmn16 said:
I don't want the sound man's "flavor" on my music and I don't care if he's bored, get what I'm saying?

I have put in a lot of time, effort and expense to produce a sound for my bass that I'm happy with. I work hard with every band I'm in to produce our own sound. I'm not interested in putting in all of that effort just to turn creative control over to someone else.

If you are happy to do that, it's none of my business, but for me the job of the sound man is to represent the band's vision for their sound, not him own.
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To me running sound is part of the creative process. On the one hand you have to trust the sound operator's judgment about the mix. On the other hand you need someone who shares your artistic vision for what the sound should be.

The phrase "creative control" is totally apt. In most really successful bands creative control gets shared in a way that lets a bunch of talented people give their best.
 

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