How do I count these measures?

[thandy]

Had a college band director back in the day that stressed breaking every syncopated rhythm into straight 8th notes. In other words, look at every measure and feel (and count) straight 8th notes, perhaps with a metronome. For some reason tapping it with my finger over and over until I can be steady works for me. Then once you have a straight 8th pattern in your head, then do quarter notes on off beats, in other words tap the quarter notes on the "and" while keeping the constant eights in your head. Once you get the hang of that then start feeling the syncopation and stop trying to think and count (I'm always a goof trying to walk and chew gum anyway...) I find that the syncopation starts to come naturally and you get that groove feel without trying to do too much math in your head. Hope it helps.

 

[40Hz]

This is one of those things that looks more confusing in notation and is far more difficult to "count" than it actually is to play. Which is why on those rare occasions when I taught somebody, I'd encourage the player not to count but to listen and analyze, and then get a feel for what the bass line was doing instead. Because when it comes to blues, the old guard tends to play a little fast and loose with the clock timing. And they seldom play right on the beat. Sometimes it's a little ahead, and sometimes it's behind. But it's mainly all about feel. So counting when reading a blues score doesn't always work as well for you as it does with other styles of music.

 

[Nickweissmusic]

Would appreciate some input on how to count measures 7 and 11. The eighth note after "&" is throwing me off. I think it is on 3 but it doesn't seem right.View attachment 1087824

Thanks,
Jack

I think it's helpful to see measures with all the attacks of notes accounted for. Kind of tough to do with text, but here goes.

Measure 7 (counts in parentheses have no note attacked on them):
1 (& 2) & (3) & (4) &

The 8th notes are tied together because that "quarter note" that they create crosses over the imaginary mid measure line. Good readers want to see not only the measures divided, but also the half measure. It really is a quarter note, it's just somewhat rude to write it as one. I'm not kidding, some guys will get pissed. I'm not a good reader so I wouldn't know

Measure 11 with the same system:

1 (& 2) & 3 & (4) &

Basically you can clap on all the non-parentheses counts and that's the rhythm of that measure. In my mind, and out loud with students, I count the attached notes loudly, and the counts in parentheses quietly. That's the best I can do in writing, hope it helps!

 

[Don Kasper]

Would appreciate some input on how to count measures 7 and 11. The eighth note after "&" is throwing me off. I think it is on 3 but it doesn't seem right.View attachment 1087824

Thanks,
Jack

If possible, I always try to "show" the downbeat(s), (especially if they are not "played"), when writing syncopated rhythms.
Here is how I would notate those 2 measures.
Notice how you can clearly "see" the downbeat on beats 3 & 4.
Happy Counting!

 

[Joebone]

If you have the audio track, then play along with it. That "accent on the upbeat" thing, and crossing sustained notes over the 1-2-3-4- are some of the things that make bass a great instrument to play! Try not to overthink it...and intellectual comprehension will follow.

 

[Jloch86]

The beats you play on are in caps:

ONE and two AND three AND four AND

 

[steelbed45]

I'm going to make a long throw suggestion. Integrate aural theory into your musicianship - don't just play it - sing or hum it. Get it into your head.
I had to work a lot harder on aural than written in college, but being able to look at your OP transcription, hum it in my head and know immediately what tune it was is a nice thing to have.

 

[rogerb]

I just played along with the track a couple of times and figured it out, didn't need no city folk fancy sheet music to get that one nailed.

 

[madbass6]

Play on the downbeat for beat 1, and the & for beats 2, 3, and 4.

Dots increase a note's duration by 50%. So a dotted quarter equals three eighths.

Ties connect two (or more) notes of the same pitch, to make them into one long note.

It is customary in standard notation to visually indicate the division halfway through the measure, between beats 2 and 3. That is why, in this example, the note on the & of 2 is written as two tied eighth notes, but the note on the & of 3 is written as a quarter note. They are written differently, but have the same duration. A little confusing, I know, but traditionally a lot of musicians find it easier to read that way.

maybe it's not a beat thing, it could just be a feel thing! Try adding a ghost /muted note rite before that first note on measure 7. again, just maybe. posting an audio or video of you playing it could help identify if it's a beat or a feel thing.
Hope this helps. good luck .

 

[Ant Illington]

It is customary in standard notation to visually indicate the division halfway through the measure, between beats 2 and 3.

Wow, never heard nor noticed that. Makes perfect sense, thank you.

 

[HolmeBass]

There are no notes played on beats 3 or 4 in measures 7 and 11. Rather, the notes are played on the &. Do you have a recording of this song you can listen to to get the sound in your head?

Definitely an 8th note right on "3" in measure 11. The "3" is tied into from the & of 2 in bar 7.

 

[radmin]

I think of syncopation as just notes being pushed. And when the note isn't tied I relate to the notes after not before.
For example an 1/8th note on the and of 4 is just a pickup note to 1 that follows. It relates more to the next measure than the measure it's in.

 

[Ant Illington]

Ties can only be used to connect notes of the same pitch. In measure 7, the tie connects eighth note E# to eighth note E#, creating a quarter note E#. (But it is notated as tied eighth notes, because of tradition.) In measure 11 however, the notes are eighth note F# and eighth note G#, two different pitches, and so they cannot be tied together into a single quarter note. Does that make any sense?

Mushroo:

Good work, mush.

Watch out, you have a student not paying attention to your hard work. I like when people do us the favor of thinking and understanding in addition to just rattling off questions that we take time to answer, I'm sure you agree! Call me old fashioned.

Here, he was asking about the notation difference between measures 10 and 11, not 7 and 11, as you are addressing in reply. He confused you (and me) with the use of the word "tie." So, he's asking why there is a [bar?] present in 10 (between 3 and &) but not 11 (between the &of 2 and 3). What's weird is that he then said he understood your explanation which didn't answer his question because his question was a little unclear.... but whatever... I don't like when people don't take the time read the answers they ask for when someone kindly takes the time to write!

So please confirm for me/us:

1) Lets get the terminology. Please clarify what we call the connector between two eighth notes (or 16ths, etc). I know that when they are separated they have flags but, in 40 years, I've never contemplated what to call the connector between notes!

2) I imagine by deduction from your earlier explanation, the reason for not "putting a bar" between the 8ths here is for the same reason as not using a quarter note across the &of2 and 3- that is, to readily make visible the midpoint of the measure- which you kindly addressed earlier for OP.

 

[mambo4]

the wikipedia list of musical symbols is actually quite good.

BARS are narrow vertical lines that separate measures, and do not indicate notes.
TIES are curved horizontal lines connecting note heads (when notes are different pitches they are slurs)
BEAMS are what we call the thick horizontal straight lines that group notes together

beams and ties are conventionally used to clarify where the subdivision pulses occur
so in 4/4 beams /ties help identify groups that occur within one of the four quarter note pulse
if phrase 'crosses' that subdivision, the beams *should* be broken

of course that doesn't stop thoughtless composers and unmindful publishers from producing poor notation.
Quarter notes that cross the subdivision are annoying to me, I would have preferred this:

Invalid Link Removed

It's very clear where the downbeats go in this case

 

[Mushroo]

How would you "visually" indicate the division halfway through the measure of 3/4, 5/4, 7/8, etc...?

Good question. It's been a few years since I worked in music publishing, and my memory is hazy, so please don't take this as a definitive answer. IIRC, when notating odd time signatures, there is flexibility in how the notes are grouped, depending on the composer's intent. For example, one song in 5/4 might be subdivided 3+2, while another is subdivided 2+3.

 

[StatesideRambler]

IIRC, when notating odd time signatures, there is flexibility in how the notes are grouped, depending on the composer's intent. For example, one song in 5/4 might be subdivided 3+2, while another is subdivided 2+3.

Exactly! The notation of odd meters also implies the feel (2 + 3 or 3 + 2) of the piece, when properly done. That's also a great reason for adhering to the invisible mid-measure bar in even meters. It's not just adding fractions, eh?

 

[Carl Hillman]

Would appreciate some input on how to count measures 7 and 11. The eighth note after "&" is throwing me off. I think it is on 3 but it doesn't seem right.View attachment 1087824

Thanks,
Jack

Subdivide.

Think continuous eighth notes in your head. Say 1,2,3..1,2..1,2,..1 out loud for the seventh measure, 1,2,3,..1..1..1,2..1 for the eleventh measure. When you can do that, play a note every time you say "1" and you'll be playing the correct rhythm.

 

[FenderB]

This is one of those things that looks more confusing in notation and is far more difficult to "count" than it actually is to play. Which is why on those rare occasions when I taught somebody, I'd encourage the player not to count but to listen and analyze, and then get a feel for what the bass line was doing instead. Because when it comes to blues, the old guard tends to play a little fast and loose with the clock timing. And they seldom play right on the beat. Sometimes it's a little ahead, and sometimes it's behind. But it's mainly all about feel. So counting when reading a blues score doesn't always work as well for you as it does with other styles of music.

I'm beginning to see (hear) that 40hz. Thanks.

 

[FenderB]

I think it's helpful to see measures with all the attacks of notes accounted for. Kind of tough to do with text, but here goes.

Measure 7 (counts in parentheses have no note attacked on them):
1 (& 2) & (3) & (4) &

The 8th notes are tied together because that "quarter note" that they create crosses over the imaginary mid measure line. Good readers want to see not only the measures divided, but also the half measure. It really is a quarter note, it's just somewhat rude to write it as one. I'm not kidding, some guys will get pissed. I'm not a good reader so I wouldn't know

Measure 11 with the same system:

1 (& 2) & 3 & (4) &

Basically you can clap on all the non-parentheses counts and that's the rhythm of that measure. In my mind, and out loud with students, I count the attached notes loudly, and the counts in parentheses quietly. That's the best I can do in writing, hope it helps!

Thanks Nick, I saw a YT video on counting this way but I have trouble putting it into practice.

 

[FenderB]

I'm going to make a long throw suggestion. Integrate aural theory into your musicianship - don't just play it - sing or hum it. Get it into your head.
I had to work a lot harder on aural than written in college, but being able to look at your OP transcription, hum it in my head and know immediately what tune it was is a nice thing to have.

I've heard that Steel. I need to work on that, it's something I don't think about doing. Thanks.